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Gregory Rainsborough

Grief Fleets

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4 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

Ships should arrive in the OW in proportion to where they escaped battle. In this way it will be a lot harder for a re tag.

Terrific idea.  In so many ways.  For traders, we could travel in an instance.  Hunters, could reposition themselves to intercept.  Teamwork could be used by players inside and outside.  This would allow for more strategy.

The time in the instance could be extended.  All players joining an instance should be an at increasing distance from the original ship, that was attacked, or at the initiation point of the instance, which ever is greater.

 

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7 hours ago, Le Raf Boom said:

I'll toss in another one here - chasers 'tagging' you when you're about as fast as people chasing you. it can go on for a full 1hr30min, or, smaller ships tagging first rates and keeping distance just firing at sails to prevent you from leaving aka screening.

Another annoying one is some one using Navy Loadsman for fast OW speed to tag, but than they aren't as fast to keep the ship in battle.  Though they keep tagging some one until they either run out of repairs or get away.  Seen this happen to a few guys.  They get hit by chain at first but is able to repair and get away.  Until about the 4-5th tag when they start to run out of repairs and can't escape.   

I remember one of my longest fights was over 3+ hours.  We sunk a brit on the way back from something.  He got out with another ship and some friends and tagged us just around the corner (heading back from KPR area to Mort).   We had a running fight for an hour and half.  GOt out and was tagged again.  Same thing running fight for an hour and half.  The other pirate had to go so I told him split when we escape.  They followed me and got the tag.  Well about half way into the fight his buddies left.  That was when I turned on him and made it a 1 vs 1.  My trinc was able to take out his trinc and I won the fight.  That Saterday fight was was about 4.5 hours long just for one continues battle.  They where never fast enough to catch us but was able to get hits to tag us in for the whole time.  

 

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9 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

It can escape in battle but gets tagged again in OW. That's the flaw of the game, the dualism of instance & OW. Many players experience been retagged 3-5 times or even more, yet every single time they get away in the battle.

Laser-acurate stern chasers for the win. Navy Noobsman Report. Basically hunting is harder than escaping (imo) due to the necessity of tagging to keep in battle.

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1 hour ago, Macjimm said:

Terrific idea.  In so many ways.  For traders, we could travel in an instance.  Hunters, could reposition themselves to intercept.  Teamwork could be used by players inside and outside.  This would allow for more strategy.

The time in the instance could be extended.  All players joining an instance should be an at increasing distance from the original ship, that was attacked, or at the initiation point of the instance, which ever is greater.

 

2

The idea is not terrible, a trader or any other player is already at the disadvantage as magic 25 ships can spawn right on top of him without him knowing that there is an actual battle ongoing at his location. It makes no difference where enemy spawn as it's not correlated with random player location. 

About spawning "at increasing distance from the original ship" idea sounds cool in theory, in practice all ships in battle are not stationary and they are moving. You can have ships moving in different directions, would be terrible to have enemies join close to you all of sudden. 

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12 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

You go raiding and of course you expect a countergank fleet as is within their rights.

What shouldn't be is constant kiting for hours on end with the raider being unable to log off because Requins tag, kite, tag, kite, etc...

Bit annoying and there should be a mechanic to allow me to lose everything in my hold in exchange for going to the nearest port.

Nope.

Most often these “raiders” are picking on some unfortunate scrub (like myself) and when the opportunity presents itself for some payback, the “raider” should be allowed to escape for a pittance??? 

Nope.

As long as the counter gank fleet is willing and able to pursue... then by all means pursue. If the “raider” wants out?? Surrender. Problem solved. Fight. Problem solved.

Participated in a counter gank just this last weekend. Took a couple retags but we ran him down and sank him. He was raging in chat at the end too. And it felt good to Help catch and sink him!!! It felt good to read his whining chat posts. It felt good to get payback!!!

You got to remember all those scrubs you’ve been picking on dream about the opportunity to get payback. Why should you be allowed to steal that good feeling from them by using some cheap game mechanic??? 

Nope.

 

Edited by Diceman
Fixing grammar
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1 hour ago, Banished Privateer said:

About spawning "at increasing distance from the original ship" idea sounds cool in theory, in practice all ships in battle are not stationary and they are moving. You can have ships moving in different directions, would be terrible to have enemies join close to you all of sudden. 

Not sure how much text to use sometimes, so the whole idea is often not conveyed well.

I think that ships should never spawn right beside a ship inside an instance. I would prefer if the required time to escape an instance was longer, but the distance between the spawn point and a ship inside is increased.

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The day the developers officially endorse holding someone in a non-combat battle till they have to surrender out of time constraints or annoyance as a legitimate tactic is the day I put down this game for good.

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4 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I remember one of my longest fights was over 3+ hours.  We sunk a brit on the way back from something.  He got out with another ship and some friends and tagged us just around the corner (heading back from KPR area to Mort).   We had a running fight for an hour and half.  GOt out and was tagged again.  Same thing running fight for an hour and half.  The other pirate had to go so I told him split when we escape.  They followed me and got the tag.  Well about half way into the fight his buddies left.  That was when I turned on him and made it a 1 vs 1.  My trinc was able to take out his trinc and I won the fight.  That Saterday fight was was about 4.5 hours long just for one continues battle.  They where never fast enough to catch us but was able to get hits to tag us in for the whole time.

This is interesting.  I had always envisioned small fleet age of sail engagements to be like what you described.  I hope that the potential for this type of interaction is never prohibited in this game.  As a trader it is the hound and fox portion of the game that is trilling,  the battle portion is a little like being a chicken and watching my own death from a  low velocity pellet gun.

I sympathize that some players will never want to participate in a four hour battle, and other players do not even consider the chase to be part of the fight.  I prefer a game that allows conflict between players that involves the tactics of fleeing and evading for extended periods.  

After all, it is a game.  Ending the chase is relatively easy to do so.  Surrender, giving up, quitting or suicide won't hurt too much.  It is a game after all.

Although we could should add some features that would make losing a little easier to take. 

  • Previously  I was able to talk to enemy players in Open World, and the communication made ending the fight easier.  I imagined that I was signalling my opponent and he/she was responding.  The conversations were sporting and enhanced the experience.   I have even had hunters let me go on a couple occasions.  I've had to "Ignore" a few toxic players but the list is very short.  Removal of the communication, between ships of different nations, has degraded the game. 
  • Adding trade mechanics, between all players both in Open World and in the Battle Instance, allows players to create solutions to end the fight and enrich the story line. 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQLKTPmXIM-RFiDqWKEUg0

Edited by Macjimm
gramar

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18 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

This is interesting.  I had always envisioned small fleet age of sail engagements to be like what you described.  I hope that the potential for this type of interaction is never prohibited in this game.  As a trader it is the hound and fox portion of the game that is trilling,  the battle portion is a little like being a chicken and watching my own death from a  low velocity pellet gun.

I sympathize that some players will never want to participate in a four hour battle, and other players do not even consider the chase to be part of the fight.  I prefer a game that allows conflict between players that involves the tactics of fleeing and evading for extended periods.  

After all, it is a game.  Ending the chase is relatively easy to do so.  Surrender, giving up, quitting or suicide won't hurt too much.  It is a game after all.

Although we could should add some features that would make losing a little easier to take. 

  • Previously  I was able to talk to enemy players in Open World, and the communication made ending the fight easier.  I imagined that I was signalling my opponent and he/she was responding.  The conversations were sporting and enhanced the experience.   I have even had hunters let me go on a couple occasions.  I've had to "Ignore" a few toxic players but the list is very short.  Removal of the communication, between ships of different nations, has degraded the game. 
  • Adding trade mechanics, between all players both in Open World and in the Battle Instance, allows players to create solutions to end the fight and enrich the story line. 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQLKTPmXIM-RFiDqWKEUg0

Yah I didn't mind it that day, but not every one has 4+ to play an on running fight. I always think it's silly when folks think 30 mins fight is to long.  I have won a good share of fights running close to the clock.  Bascily folks get frustrated and try stupid things and make mistakes when the clock starts to run out.

I do wish we had a surrender option at start of fight can offer gold or cargo to escape with the ship like POTBS had.

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If it wasn't a revenge fleet, and it wasn't over the course of hours, how would the question be different?

"If there is a large fleet coming after me, I should be able to dump my hold and escape"

Just turn and fight, when you hit and run and return to port every time, it's only natural that one would like to finish you once and for all, or keep you away in any way possible.

 

I agree that there is some lack of realism, and I feel it is because in battle one is restricted to a realistic speed, while ow revenge fleets take a fraction of the time to reach the position of your battle.  I feel like there should be some way around it, but I oppose what you suggested.  

 Perhaps invisibility increase depending on the distance from shore?  When a ship is close to shore, invisibility is normal, thus the player may be recaptured.  But, as they run from shore into the open sea, the invisibility timer increases, giving them more chance to escape.  Seems somewhat balanced and counter-able, also realistic and historically accurate

 

If this allows too frequent of raids to coasts, how about the more often a raider kills in the same region, the lower his invisibility timer is?

Edited by Sir John

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16 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

You go raiding and of course you expect a countergank fleet as is within their rights.

What shouldn't be is constant kiting for hours on end with the raider being unable to log off because Requins tag, kite, tag, kite, etc...

Bit annoying and there should be a mechanic to allow me to lose everything in my hold in exchange for going to the nearest port.

You did the same to me once when you were in a snow.

 

You called it "a game of attrition"

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Was it not because of the same thing chain shot was limited and range reduced?

Onwards the circle of evolution goes.

😂😂

 

Edited by Dibbler

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There was never a "easier mode" in the OW than the "escape to port" after battle.

Those were the fat times. Total impunity... Raiding left and right and center...

Glad it is no longer that way. 

 

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3 hours ago, Hethwill said:

There was never a "easier mode" in the OW than the "escape to port" after battle.

Those were the fat times. Total impunity... Raiding left and right and center...

Glad it is no longer that way. 

 

I agree with you but the OP does point out a particularly pernicious problem with the current balance, and that is you have a ship currently in the game that is a purpose-built griefer. Capable of throwing a 2 lb. ball a ridiculous distance that can keep a ship tagged in battle and then run with impunity at almost any point of sail when it's speed fit. Add to that the problem of the disconnect with Navy Loodsman, or ships that are faster on the OW than they are in battle... These are silly mechanics and can lead to the bad behavior that motivated this post.

I might entertain a fix such that if you escape from a battle you didn't start your invisibility and speed bonus timer should be longer, say 60 seconds (and for feck's sake please bump turn rate to match the speed bump). That seems like a decent compromise that doesn't totally blow the current RoE out of whack but might reduce the impact of these types of tag-re-tag-re-tag griefs.

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I do not disagree.

Maybe increase damage threshold for effective tag would be enough.

 

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Shooting sails at a distance for extended lengths of time just to keep players in battle should be a punishable offense. Period. 

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25 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

Shooting sails at a distance for extended lengths of time just to keep players in battle should be a punishable offense. Period. 

Turn and fight...or stay home.   If you attack players in their home waters, you should expect to get mobbed.

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3 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

Turn and fight...or stay home.   If you attack players in their home waters, you should expect to get mobbed.

Care to elaborate how the player in the slower ship is supposed to turn and fight, when being kited by faster ships?
If the attacker is significantly faster, more than one retag is unlikely to happen and the battle won't last long. If the speed is close between both the Counterfleet, Revengefleet or Gankfleet, whatever you want to call it, should be able to close in and get the kill. If they can't manage that, why keep kiting? It's no fun for all parties concerned.

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6 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

Care to elaborate how the player in the slower ship is supposed to turn and fight, when being kited by faster ships?
If the attacker is significantly faster, more than one retag is unlikely to happen and the battle won't last long. If the speed is close between both the Counterfleet, Revengefleet or Gankfleet, whatever you want to call it, should be able to close in and get the kill. If they can't manage that, why keep kiting? It's no fun for all parties concerned.

Its not a slower ship.  This thread is about fast ships raiding and then being harassed as they try to escape.  The chase ships keep them in battle by firing ball and hitting sails...long and boring.  If they get out of that battle instance, there are others waiting to re-tag them.  A long chase in a battle instance is quite realistic IMO, but the whole re-tagging thing should be fixed.  I agree with previous posts that longer invisibility (and yes, fix the dam turn rate) is a good answer.  Defence fleets should still have a chance to kill a Raider (he deserves to die!), but it shouldn't be this tedious. 

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1 hour ago, Capn Rocko said:

Shooting sails at a distance for extended lengths of time just to keep players in battle should be a punishable offense. Period. 

Wrong

In several cases this is a useful tool in game. Screeners keeping someone from getting to a PB. Counter gank ship/fleet keeping gankers from preying upon the noob/scrub captains giving them enough time to get clear of the area or gather forces to finally catch and finish the gankers off. Or just making things so uncomfortable for the gankers that they’ll take their show elsewhere! Kind of the reason for a coast guard countergank fleet in my view.

The very idea that we need a game mechanic that aids a “raiders” escape from a situation they they knowingly got themselves into is ludicrous. You chose to take your gold super modded ship into other people’s area to most likely prey upon the weaker captains sailing in basic ships. It’s all fun while your winning but when you get caught and made uncomfortable... all of a sudden there needs to be forum posts and calls for changes to the game to allow you a quick and easy escape??

Wrong.

Punishable offense. What a joke.

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Suggestion:

Invisibility and super speed after battle escape which lasts for 30 seconds. The timer doesn’t start until you raise sails or 15 seconds after OW spawn, whichever comes first. Plus after invisibility, you have the regular post battle no join/attack timer. It seems if you can’t eventually escape under those conditions, you’re not destined to escape. 

Edited by Farrago
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2 hours ago, Oberon74 said:

Turn and fight...or stay home.   If you attack players in their home waters, you should expect to get mobbed.

I'm talking about when I turn to fight and the player runs away but keeps tagging from a distance, then I give up and turn around, then the player turns around (now chasing me) and continues tagging. This repeats itself for 1.5 hours. I can't fight and I can't leave. I don't mind getting mobbed (in fact I enjoy it) but this is completely different, pure griefing, and should be punishable. 

Go home. 

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2 hours ago, Diceman said:

Wrong

In several cases this is a useful tool in game. Screeners keeping someone from getting to a PB. Counter gank ship/fleet keeping gankers from preying upon the noob/scrub captains giving them enough time to get clear of the area or gather forces to finally catch and finish the gankers off. Or just making things so uncomfortable for the gankers that they’ll take their show elsewhere! Kind of the reason for a coast guard countergank fleet in my view.

The very idea that we need a game mechanic that aids a “raiders” escape from a situation they they knowingly got themselves into is ludicrous. You chose to take your gold super modded ship into other people’s area to most likely prey upon the weaker captains sailing in basic ships. It’s all fun while your winning but when you get caught and made uncomfortable... all of a sudden there needs to be forum posts and calls for changes to the game to allow you a quick and easy escape??

Wrong.

Punishable offense. What a joke.

^ That's the reason why " gankers " use 15.5 knots ships. Puny Coast Guards still won't catch me, but they will come to cry on forums about Loodsman, sail force or speed mods. Kiting, screening and keeping in battle is not the intended use of game mechanics, no idea why @Hethwill agrees with you. Even Admin said that repeated abuse of that form can be reported and punished. Two sides of the medal, one that wants to raid, other that wants to defend. Both want everything in their favour and both sides are broken and full of game flaws. 

Edited by Banished Privateer

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You reap what you sow. It's fine as it is. I guess I don't get griefed that much since I hunt around Freetowns but you can't hunt around enemy waters without consequences. The roe with ai is still shite in safezones but that's another story. A bit of a solution would be the removal of F11 coordinates since they are BS. 

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