Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, admin said:

One group of upgrades give too much bonuses to the base stat
Another group of upgrades give meaningless bonuses to the base stat. 

Harmonization will do the following
Abstract example (numbers are for the illustration purposes only).
If you can buff reload by 30% you should be able to buff penetration by 30% as well, to give a meaningful choice between reload and penetration. 
If you can buff repairs by 30% you should be able to buff HP or Thickness by 30% instead. 

I can appreciate the desire to tweak something that requires no additional coding, but I feel like there's finally some balance to the mods and books as they are and they have different uses in different contexts. Sure, there are some throwaway ones and there are ones that everyone uses more often than not, but at least there's nothing game breaking at the moment! 

Shouldn't we be worried about more important aspects of the game at the moment like adding more content (e.g. raids), fixing the aspects of the economy that are broken, etc. and making sure all the interacting systems in the game work together and are properly documented for new players before we go back to twiddling with minor percentages, the combat model, or something else that already is pretty functional?

I just feel like these changes will initiate a whole new opportunity to imbalance and break the game in new and interesting ways, rather than move things forward. :( 

Edited by Wraith
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

Isn't the whole point of getting those books to get a sense of progression? It's something to aim for so those people that can be arsed to get them should have an advantage.

 

That's true. In the same time if those books were only 50% stronger than standard ones, people would still find for them. As they are, eg ship handling gives a very significant advantage in battle compared to others. 

It would be good to nerf them a bit so that they're still desired, but not must-have for pvp. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Why 3 slots instead of 1 for 5rings wouldn't t be an advantage anymore when the book is made out 5 books?

It's still 2 books/slots less.

I know some NA players don't start to move when reward is not a million. But why is a 2 slot advantage not enough?

I get your thinking and in general I agree, however I think it would be easier to reduce bonus of those books, rather than increase number of slots. 

Edited by vazco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, vazco said:

That's true. In the same time if those books were only 50% stronger than standard ones, people would still find for them. As they are, eg ship handling gives a very significant advantage in battle compared to others. 

It would be good to nerf them a bit so that they're still desired, but not must-have for pvp. 

Calling them a "must-have" is a bit overblown.. The differences between ship builds far outweighs the 2% turn/speed bump, etc. that ship knowledge provides. They make a difference but they don't automatically make you a world beater.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Calling them a "must-have" is a bit overblown.. The differences between ship builds far outweighs the 2% turn/speed bump, etc. that ship knowledge provides. They make a difference but they don't automatically make you a world beater.

It's the 13slot vs 5 slot. Try to do a "I can do everything build" with 5 slots that is as useful as a 13slot build. That's where the imbalance is.

With all 3 encyclopedias you can shoot, sail, maneuver, reload, and aim and still 2 slots to waste for other crap. There is no choice anymore. No either. Encyclopedias are fine if it's either but not and + and.

Edited by z4ys
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Wraith said:

feel like there's finally some balance to the mods and books

There's still one imbalance people don't seem to see. Reducing something is a much greater bonus than increasing something, yet values and caps for both are the same :) Just a hint for people who like to dig into numbers :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Calling them a "must-have" is a bit overblown.. The differences between ship builds far outweighs the 2% turn/speed bump, etc. that ship knowledge provides. They make a difference but they don't automatically make you a world beater.

In duels ship handling is a huge and easy to feel bonus. Probably 40% of people I dueled and sank would sink me if they had this book and I didn't. Of course those are usually experienced players. 

It's less important in OW, where ship numbers matter more. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, z4ys said:

It's the 13slot vs 5 slot. Try to do a "I can do everything build" with 5 slots that is as useful as a 13slot build. That's where the imbalance is.

With all 3 encyclopedias you can shoot, sail, maneuver, reload, and aim and still 2 slots to waste for other crap. There is no choice anymore. No either. Encyclopedias are fine if it's either but not and + and.

Hmm, maybe that's why they are so expensive and rare 🤔 Remember ship handling, gunnery encyclopedia and 5 rings (all 3) have been nerfed once or twice already. I wonder what will be the point of these books if they are about to be nerfed for the 2nd or 3rd time ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, vazco said:

In duels ship handling is a huge and easy to feel bonus. Probably 40% of people I dueled and sank would sink me if they had this book and I didn't. Of course those are usually experienced players. 

It's less important in OW, where ship numbers matter more. 

I'm certainly not arguing that it doesn't give you an edge, but for the difficulty of attaining these books, why not let people have that edge? It's a small edge, but not decisive, and until you're very late game you probably won't have these books anyway. So the vast majority of players will be playing without those books, and taking away late game content from already salty, jaded vets is just a recipe for people leaving the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Oberon74 said:

I'm hoping some of the perks (Fleet 1 and prepared) will be automatic (so that we can choose others). This would have a greater impact on which mods you choose. 

Combat perks should be tied to your Rank and Crafting perks should be tied to your crafting level not tied all to rank.  I agree on the Fleet 1 and prepared being auto learned say when you level up so far you learn them.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

Isn't the whole point of getting those books to get a sense of progression? It's something to aim for so those people that can be arsed to get them should have an advantage.

 

well, its funny, I learned all the books 

but i cannot use my brains............. and make it a book of 5 rings, or gunnery book...

I believe that if you have learned all the books  (in parts), you also can make it a bundle and put it in your/ my library... >>> slot

but in this game, there is no cohesion in learned books, and/or knowledge. 

very funny and stupid at the same time.

OT:

ps perhaps we need a blueprint of the printing press and or,  the art of bookbinding  bleuprint

to make it a real library with encyclopedias

 

 

thank god there were Greeks who invented it all

i have seen  captains who have the *book* given... but not the knowledge in their bookcase, i call it instant OP  lol 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was a similar argument before on “Stacking”. I assume we want to retain Books and mods that improve our ships.  

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/25015-a-different-look-at-upgrading-and-stacking-ones-ship/

I thought about the problem this way “The Importance of Influence”. This then would allow for all three encyclopedias to be used but depending in which order they’re loaded will yield different results.

In my example, also would depend on what mods where used up the chain.

 

Just a thought

 

Norfolk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, z4ys said:

It's the 13slot vs 5 slot. Try to do a "I can do everything build" with 5 slots that is as useful as a 13slot build. That's where the imbalance is.

I have to disagree. If maths were only that simple..

The whole point of these books is to combine books that are each useless when used alone. Only Art of Shiphandling gives you a decent advantage over the not well-read opponent. The mystical samurai book is mainly not used anymore (used to be a great defensive book + had 30% decrease in crew loss - now it's 7.5% (that's a 277 crew rake instead of a 300 man rake on a Santi for example)). Gunnery encyclopedia is replaced by The Old Flag Officer/Instructions aux Cannoniers.

Agreed to Hachi: only AoS needs a slight speed nerf, rest is fine. Personally I would buff one part of the Bo5R - either melee defense or crew resistance.

I'm not so sure about the limitation to one book of one class. As much as I dislike stacking of speed mods (in my case it would probably be stacking repairs - same same but different), the sandbox freedom idea could be hurt critically. A light built frigate cannot engage something that's out of her class as well as it can outrun the same ship type with a heavier build. And we also won't be able to reduce the gear gap as the top time investers will have the best books of each class, while others can't compete. Perhaps I just got lazy, but my impression lately was, that most players got the rare books and we kinda had some balance - surely possible I'm mistaken here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Wraith said:

I'm certainly not arguing that it doesn't give you an edge, but for the difficulty of attaining these books, why not let people have that edge? It's a small edge, but not decisive, and until you're very late game you probably won't have these books anyway. So the vast majority of players will be playing without those books, and taking away late game content from already salty, jaded vets is just a recipe for people leaving the game.

Salty jaded vets leaving is bad?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Christendom said:

Salty jaded vets keep this game afloat.  so yes.

Ok man, well that's just like your opinion 😎

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Sea Fox said:

Ok man, well that's just like your opinion 😎

Who do you think buys all that DLC?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Wraith said:

Who do you think buys all that DLC?

New people. And old players too

I think the dlc will bring in more new players. I know the old guys and clumpers will buy obviously. Solo players will buy the dlc and new people will certainly buy it. We need more dlc. 

I think this game appeals to a niche type of customer and it is a somewhat small niche but it's niche with money.....not too sure dlc is being purchased by kids begging for Mommy and Daddy's credit card....rather by grown men (and women) with means to buy what ever they want to game wise

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Palatinose said:

Agreed to Hachi: only AoS needs a slight speed nerf, rest is fine. Personally I would buff one part of the Bo5R - either melee defense or crew resistance.

I kind of agree. I would balance Gunnery Encyclopedia with one more book being able to lower dispersion by 7%, as right now Pellow Sights + Gunnery +Old Flag give a big advantage to demasting. If eg. Notched Angles would give 7% dispersion bonus, I think Gunnery would be balanced - it would be replaceable, just with more slots.

If ship handling would give 2% speed bonus and -3% roll angle (plus old values of 5% turn and -10% rudder), I think it would be more or less balanced as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Oberon74 said:

I'm hoping some of the perks (Fleet 1 and prepared) will be automatic (so that we can choose others). This would have a greater impact on which mods you choose. 

It would be the removal of prepared all together. In the past we all started fully loaded.  why that changed I do not know. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

why that changed I do not know. 

Go through ALL of our suggestions. You will find your answer for that and many other mechanics.

We, the people of the Caribbean, voice our concerns and we are heard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

Go through ALL of our suggestions. You will find your answer for that and many other mechanics.

We, the people of the Caribbean, voice our concerns and we are heard.

Or you could just say instead of wasting time. The people of the Caribbean voice many concerns and alot of the time the solution is worse than the original problem. 

Let's look at prepared for example. We didn't need it in the past but now it's a make or break the battle mod because engagements start so close. Imo it doesn't add anything interesting to the combat so either remove it completely or give it to all. Removing it would be a bit more tactical overall because people would have to manage what sides to load first and getting a bad tag because of desync wouldnt be as one sided as it is. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't disagree with you. Plus we both will have the same trouble going through the suggestions :)

And by the way, spawn were much much much much closer. We could start hugging. And prepared turned into a "option" - if you want it, get the Officer skill. Then it turned into a perk after the Officers removals.

Was a "guaranteed cripple the enemy button" of sorts. Still is if a 74 gun has a perfect spawn versus a cruiser frigate.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×