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Old Crusty

PvP marks and the seals

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   New players learning the ropes and old Rear Admirals like myself have something in common. We get killed by more experienced and better skilled players. For Both types of players that is very bad because it can cause them to quit playing and then they will not spend any money on DLC. If the Developers want to make money they need people to continue playing.

   Currently when a player gets their ever loving rear end spanked by another player all they get is s little experience and the opportunity to try and buy/make another ship so they can go out and get spanked again. If you have ever lost 5 ships in two days you know how discouraged you can get.

   How about giving the losing player a few PvP marks for being in the battle. Even if it was just 25% of what the winner got it would make people happy. Happy people spend their money. Happy people continue to play the game. A higher game population makes everyone happy.

   Give all nations safe, non PvP zones to practice and then reward them for venturing out of those safe zones by allowing them the reward of PvP marks even when they lose. It can go a long ways to making people happy about losing their ship for a fifth time in a week. It is a game after all and people play games to be happy.

 

Old Crusty

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35 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

   New players learning the ropes and old Rear Admirals like myself have something in common. We get killed by more experienced and better skilled players. For Both types of players that is very bad because it can cause them to quit playing and then they will not spend any money on DLC. If the Developers want to make money they need people to continue playing.

   Currently when a player gets their ever loving rear end spanked by another player all they get is s little experience and the opportunity to try and buy/make another ship so they can go out and get spanked again. If you have ever lost 5 ships in two days you know how discouraged you can get.

   How about giving the losing player a few PvP marks for being in the battle. Even if it was just 25% of what the winner got it would make people happy. Happy people spend their money. Happy people continue to play the game. A higher game population makes everyone happy.

   Give all nations safe, non PvP zones to practice and then reward them for venturing out of those safe zones by allowing them the reward of PvP marks even when they lose. It can go a long ways to making people happy about losing their ship for a fifth time in a week. It is a game after all and people play games to be happy.

 

Old Crusty

Ahm. No.

Learn to play, and ask things you need to know in your NATION/CLAN chat.

Maybe an extended tutorial should teach new players more things, than simple sailing and shooting.

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Remove PvP marks.
Shouldn't be profitable for a 5000+ hours captain in a high end 5th rate sink a 20 hours captain in a brig. And now it is.

Restore Name+Clan+Rank in OW and restore OW player chat so:
a) 5000+ hours captains now if they are tagging a rookie.
b) a rookie now if he is tagging a more or less equal player and not a high end one.
c) A player of a nation which is allied with most clan of another nation can know if that "other nation player" he spots at sea is friendly or foe.
d) Different nation players can coordinate themselveslfs together in OW without need of TS/Discord.

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1 minute ago, Fenris said:

Ahm. No.

Learn to play, and ask things you need to know in your NATION/CLAN chat.

Maybe an extended tutorial should teach new players more things, than simple sailing and shooting.

Your attitude helps game population how?

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remove pvp marks, increase rewards from fighting ANYTHING outside safe zones. and also what this guy said ^

Edited by beagleplease
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Also, remove ships getting sank. If noone gets sank, noone is sad. Eg in games like Kingdom Come everyone can become a huge hero and everyone is satisfied in the end. Just introduce this in NA as well. 

Oh and also implement everything guys above me said as well. It's going to be a great game! 

 

PS. What about saves? If I lose a fight, it would be great to load the save and try again. 

Edited by vazco
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This will just inflate PvP marks and change nothing about new players being farmed.

 

Would be better to decrease rewards if you are ganking and also decrease rewards for killing low ranked players. Oh and PvP zone RoE.

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40 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Would be better to decrease rewards if you are ganking and also decrease rewards for killing low ranked players. Oh and PvP zone RoE.

That's actually a good idea and quite a reasonable one, probably it would work. I don't think it matches this thread :(

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2 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

Your attitude helps game population how?

"Game population" needs to learn how to play. I helped you in upper post more than you NOW deserve.

Because you are talking NOW about my attitude instead of READING what i wrote. to be honest i really do not care about new players crying here in Forum every time they lose their DIGITAL PIXELS :).

Happy sailing "captain".

 

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5 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

Currently when a player gets their ever loving rear end spanked by another player all they get is s little experience and the opportunity to try and buy/make another ship so they can go out and get spanked again. If you have ever lost 5 ships in two days you know how discouraged you can get.

If you lost 5 ships in 2 days...

1.-You are learning nothing from the battles where you get killed

2.-You dont give a fuck about the tools that the game brings you to prevent from getting killed

5 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

How about giving the losing player a few PvP marks for being in the battle. Even if it was just 25% of what the winner got it would make people happy. Happy people spend their money. Happy people continue to play the game. A higher game population makes everyone happy.

It can be exploited in so many ways... 

5 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

by allowing them the reward of PvP marks even when they lose.

Again, easy exploits

5 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

It can go a long ways to making people happy about losing their ship for a fifth time in a week. It is a game after all and people play games to be happy.

With the same rule.

Should From Software change the game because people die a lot and make them happy? Or should they keep the game with the """hardcore""" mechanics making the players sad and angry?

 

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2 hours ago, Fenris said:

"Game population" needs to learn how to play. I helped you in upper post more than you NOW deserve.

Because you are talking NOW about my attitude instead of READING what i wrote. to be honest i really do not care about new players crying here in Forum every time they lose their DIGITAL PIXELS :).

Happy sailing "captain".

 

^^^^^^Snobby uber elite post of the day...

While I don’t agree with everything in the original post I do think that the loser in the fight should get PvP/gold rewards for damage done but at a fraction (1/8 or so) of what they would’ve gotten if they’d won. Maybe with a message stating if you had won you would’ve gotten this much more... (show them the winner amount).

I also think the DLC ships are a step in the right direction cause a scrub who loses can redeem the next ship and go back out looking for a rematch when his blood is up, rather than having to start the several session grind to earn and build/buy a new ship... This means more fights. More experience for the scrub. More money for the uber elites farming on the scrubs. More fun!!!

Its even better that the DLC ships are good!! The uber elites fear these ships as evidenced by all the calls for the nerf bat! The Devs have struck gold as well as the uber elites nerve in my opinion!!! Good job Devs!!! Don’t cave into the pressure!! The screeching of the uber elites in forum is music to this scrubs ears!!! What we need now is a DLC ship that’s a tweener at the 5th and 4th rate level!!! Oh... imagine the uber elite screeching then.... 

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I actually think that both the losing and winning sides in a battle should share the PvP and combat marks equally. Consider those marks the renown of having conducted an honorable battle. The winner of course gets more gold and experience while the loser loses the cost of his ship/mods/cargo, but the combatants should be rewarded for their honor in taking a battle, providing content, and especially in the case where they are outnumbered.

We spend a lot of time handwringing around here about the lack of PvP but the only way to make PvP more attractive is to encourage people through further incentives.  This doesn't hurt the crafters, will only slightly impact the people who make a living from PvP marks (as it won't increase the total number, just distribute them more evenly), and encourage much more even or outnumbered fights.

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I definitely agree that the "losing" player should get more rewards of some sort so it isn't a total slam.

a couple pvp marks based on the damage they did based on some type of formula similar to assists would do wonders for those who lose and wish they got "something" other then this measly terrible xp reward.

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32 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I actually think that both the losing and winning sides in a battle should share the PvP and combat marks equally. Consider those marks the renown of having conducted an honorable battle. The winner of course gets more gold and experience while the loser loses the cost of his ship/mods/cargo, but the combatants should be rewarded for their honor in taking a battle, providing content, and especially in the case where they are outnumbered.

@admin @Ink I do think Wraith brings up a valid point to this discussion that should be taken into consideration in some form or manner. Obviously a player loses their ship along with whatever is attached to that ship and the contents of that ship. For some players that is hard to replace or recover from. Of course the winner should get the majority of the reward and the loser should of course get the least in rewards but in turn should be rewarded all the same. As @Old Crusty states it can be very devastating for a player to go out there to intentionally find PvP or unintentionally find PvP and lose everything just for partaking in an aspect of the game. 

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7 hours ago, Diceman said:

^^^^^^Snobby uber elite post of the day...

 

Unfortunately this is where we got so far with Naval Action: a lot of players do not want to admit to themselves that this game is now just an empty immense MOBA disguised by MMO, thus ending up in doing bad both the MOBA things and the MMO ones.

So, when a thread reminds them about this situration, they just throw their frustration on players for not being the silent and perfect prey that can ease their infinite boredom.

As far as the mark problem, I agree that giving the looser some marks based on damage done in any kind of PVP battle (so not only in patrol missions zones) could be a good solution. But it was already proposed dozen of times before, so I doubt the devs will consider it. They would say that it could be exploitable (as if the current system couldn't!).

Edited by victor
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4 hours ago, Wraith said:

I actually think that both the losing and winning sides in a battle should share the PvP and combat marks equally. Consider those marks the renown of having conducted an honorable battle.

Patrols already give this safety pill somewhat. You get rewarded if you do damage and dont need to win. 
If we do this in battle - then it will breed a lot of exploits that are impossible to close. 

Remember how it all started? You could attack anyone, you could turn a pirate, you could enter everyone battle or port battle, you could announce your intentions and start PB by placing a flag. It all went down the drain because not all use features the way they were intended in good faith. 

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31 minutes ago, admin said:

Patrols already give this safety pill somewhat. You get rewarded if you do damage and dont need to win. 
If we do this in battle - then it will breed a lot of exploits that are impossible to close. 

Remember how it all started? You could attack anyone, you could turn a pirate, you could enter everyone battle or port battle, you could announce your intentions and start PB by placing a flag. It all went down the drain because not all use features the way they were intended in good faith. 

What stops players sinking alts? 

What stops Players on different nations agreeing to sink each other? 

There is not really a way to stop this if they are sneaky enough about it. 

As long as fighting creates a net gain it will be exploited.   Fighting should reward less than the ship sunks value.   The Conquest needs to be the way to gain.  You have to balance it so no one can get steamrollered but having more territory is better.  

None of these problems the game has are simple they all intermingle with other parts of the game and you have to fix all of them at the root cause. 

Applying small bandages to a mortal wound is not gonna do anything. 

 

Edited by beagleplease
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35 minutes ago, admin said:

Patrols already give this safety pill somewhat. You get rewarded if you do damage and dont need to win. 
If we do this in battle - then it will breed a lot of exploits that are impossible to close. 

Remember how it all started? You could attack anyone, you could turn a pirate, you could enter everyone battle or port battle, you could announce your intentions and start PB by placing a flag. It all went down the drain because not all use features the way they were intended in good faith. 

Look at the rewards. PVP marks hold such value that they're placed above everything. They're the key to ships, mods, and are a huge trading item.
What happened with the ship and it's mods be the reward?

Edited by Slim McSauce
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37 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

What happened with the ship and it's mods be the reward?

Can capture a good ship when you see one. 

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11 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Can capture a good ship when you see one. 

Why would you do that when you can get the PVP marks and create a ship of your exact liking in any port for free from magic? It sounds a bit more enticing to use alts to gain marks to build ships than it is to take a ship from another.

 

 

Edited by Slim McSauce
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9 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Why would you do that when you can get the PVP marks and create a ship of your exact liking in any port for free from magic? It sounds a bit more enticing to use alts to gain marks to build ships than it is to take a ship from another.

 

 

Sorry, do not understand.

Question was "What happened with the ship and it's mods be the reward?"

Answer is - Ships can be captured. If a player sees a good build with good equipment there's the option to capture it ( if perk Fleet has been chosen ).

If there's more hidden meaning behind what is written, then it is not written and therefore meaningless.

Be clear.

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33 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Sorry, do not understand.

Question was "What happened with the ship and it's mods be the reward?"

Answer is - Ships can be captured. If a player sees a good build with good equipment there's the option to capture it ( if perk Fleet has been chosen ).

If there's more hidden meaning behind what is written, then it is not written and therefore meaningless.

Be clear.

It's much better to take the marks (safe way) than sail the captured ship back. You even get 1 mod on top and don't lose time. It's meta to sink and take marks. Sure capture is possible but due to circumstances mentioned above its fake feature.

Mark value can even be higher than the actual ship in a sale.

Edited by z4ys

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Good point.

Thanks for clearing it up.

Got lost with the "alt" blabla in the previous reply.

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To be fair to the original discussion, it's how new players get rewarded in battle, which leads to rewards from damage, which we can't do because people use alts, or friendly enemies to farm damage. With marks being as valuable as they are, almost creating an economy of their own, of course people will farm and abuse it. It's premium currency in every sense, where as a ship is not.

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I understand. You present a element of "gaming the game" and not of mechanics in place as they are intended.

 

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