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Key to sucsess

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New Casual player (Steam Review):

---Great game with beautiful graphics and fantastic audio. A lot of fun when you play with friends and form fleets. Probably should wait to buy it on sale like I did but it is a great game. The game can be harsh for new players but you can recover from that, especially if you group up with other players.

I posted many times that Fleets should be the first thing in the game where new guys learn to fight and find friends. Group finder was another suggestion that I proposed a long time ago. More loot variety to keep new guys interested and let them feel rewarded. This is just one of many reviews that show group and fleets are keeping players happy, so expand content in this area. I hope you listen now. 

P.S. I played many mmo games where you open chat and see LFG Dungeon, FLG Fleets etc... in NA this is not existent. Think about it. 

Good luck. 

 

Edited by Wind
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This is true. The group play has to be the starting point, with solo being the "hard" choice.

If i'm not mistaken some development at welcome/tutorial level are focused on this. Have to find the devs post on this...

 

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I agree. Systems that lead people into a cooperation with other players are very important.

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15 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

This is true. The group play has to be the starting point, with solo being the "hard" choice.

If i'm not mistaken some development at welcome/tutorial level are focused on this. Have to find the devs post on this...

 

Tutorial is optional, most will skip it and go right into the sailing and this is where you have to present them with group finder, clan finder and other group activities. Tutorial most likely will be abandoned after 1st chapter on basic sailing as it is complex as you progress and will frustrate newcomers. 

Edited by Wind
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I know. Their choice.

As an analogy, I am at the harsh "newcomer" level in Tarkov. I should quit. It is fairly hard and doesn't hold hands. I die all the time before escaping even winning firefight. No rewards for no escape. Learning curve is fairly steep and the environment merciless. Ganks of groups are unannounced.

I reset my account and back to baby steps following the advice of the vets. I could whine to the devs to make it easier though...

- best advice from one of the team > find a group. learn while playing. form bonds. do not expect the game to do it for you. hardcore means hardcore. it is a multiplayer game. get social. use the forum, discord, whatever, but do not wait for a hand to come pick you up.

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6 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

I know. Their choice.

As an analogy, I am at the harsh "newcomer" level in Tarkov. I should quit. It is fairly hard and doesn't hold hands. I die all the time before escaping even winning firefight. No rewards for no escape. Learning curve is fairly steep and the environment merciless. Ganks of groups are unannounced.

I reset my account and back to baby steps following the advice of the vets. I could whine to the devs to make it easier though...

- best advice from one of the team > find a group. learn while playing. form bonds. do not expect the game to do it for you. hardcore means hardcore. it is a multiplayer game. get social. use the forum, discord, whatever, but do not wait for a hand to come pick you up.

In every store they put bathroom signs to let people know and direct them. You do not say yes we do have bathroom and let them search every door. I agree you can think that way, but it will bring you pennies as income. 

Edited by Wind
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Just now, Wind said:

In a store you put bathroom signs to let people know and direct them. You do not say yes we do have bathroom and let them search every door. I agree you can think that way, but it will bring you pennies as income. 

Absolutely !

Functional and Disfunctional design are interesting fields also in game design. And many disfunctional options are... on purpose ;) 

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17 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Absolutely !

many disfunctional options are... on purpose ;) 

Let's assume this scenario. You lure customers into the store by saying there is no product like this anywhere else. They buy your product with a tiny label that says Part 1/4. To make the product run at it's max capacity you need all 4 parts. They are locked in and they payed full price. They wait for another 3 parts and get upset it takes so long to receive them. To make them happier you throw a -50% accessory items only on sale for those who payed. They are (starving) waiting for too long and they start to grab what they can get at this point. 

Many will leave and forget about your product, warning others and ruining your reputation. On the other hand you got a % of customers locked in and waiting to get the last 3 parts and you can do anything you want with them. 

Does this look like a legit business practice for you? 

All am saying is game needs to guide new customers to areas where they will grow and expand game population and not just expect a miracle. 

Edited by Wind

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I played Post Scriptum all weekend...  There is no tutorial, or guide for what different classes do and how to build outposts/ command units ets....

I died incessantly.  And I mean incessantly.

Did it make me want to quit and uninstall?  Nope.  It made me want to discover and explore and learn until I DID figure out how stuff works.

Please, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, stop assuming that EVERY new player wants to have their hand held until they are Rear Admiral and have every sexy book available to them.

Because all we're really doing is creating artificial ranks, with captains who have high rank and still cant handle their ships.

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There will be tutorial operation (a set of actions required to unlock all other missions).
One of the steps required to complete the operation will be to join a clan.

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Just now, admin said:

There will be tutorial operation (a set of actions required to unlock all other missions).
One of the steps required to complete the operation will be to join a clan.

Will there be some server run clan for this (I'll reference Eve with its various server-run corporations - some of which have very lively communities in them) or is the expectation that the player might be able/capable of forming their own clan to fulfill this requirement?  I can immediately see where there will be some player pushback or despair at finding a decent clan - also a chance for nefarious players to potentially exploit newbies by leveraging this requirement.

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5 minutes ago, Henry d'Esterre Darby said:

Will there be some server run clan for this (I'll reference Eve with its various server-run corporations - some of which have very lively communities in them) or is the expectation that the player might be able/capable of forming their own clan to fulfill this requirement?  I can immediately see where there will be some player pushback or despair at finding a decent clan - also a chance for nefarious players to potentially exploit newbies by leveraging this requirement.

There will be a timezone based clan leaderboard on various activities so a new player can pick a clan to his liking.

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1 hour ago, rediii said:

I agree. Systems that lead people into a cooperation with other players are very important.

 

1 hour ago, Wind said:

New Casual player (Steam Review):

---Great game with beautiful graphics and fantastic audio. A lot of fun when you play with friends and form fleets. Probably should wait to buy it on sale like I did but it is a great game. The game can be harsh for new players but you can recover from that, especially if you group up with other players.

I posted many times that Fleets should be the first thing in the game where new guys learn to fight and find friends. Group finder was another suggestion that I proposed a long time ago. More loot variety to keep new guys interested and let them feel rewarded. This is just one of many reviews that show group and fleets are keeping players happy, so expand content in this area. I hope you listen now. 

P.S. I played many mmo games where you open chat and see LFG Dungeon, FLG Fleets etc... in NA this is not existent. Think about it. 

Good luck. 

 

Nobody wants to play with randoms. Let's look at world of warcraft. Doing instances with random grps was a pain. You died many times. Wow has no loss and it's still painful.

NA has loss. Imagine to do epic event with 6 randoms. You cannot retry. A Lose means lose. And now think again why you see no LFG...

Same for goes for portbattles. A random Grp will almost never succeed. So why try in the first place. And randoms don't care about a port. It has no benefit for a random player only drawbacks.

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Well it's pretty obvious new players aren't buying this game in droves and the ones that do stick around typically do not stick around that long.  So clearly our method is not working out quite so well.  Despite Vernon's and Hethybaby's tenacity and love for punishment, they are not the norm in games like this.  There are games that are designed to intentionally be difficult and then there are games that are difficult because of indifference.  This is the latter. 

Nearly everything that currently ails this game is almost nearly related to a lack of player population.  Ports don't make money, RVR is dead, PVP is only active near safe zones.... etc.  With 1000, 1500 or even 2000 players this is a very different game and it's player economy would function.  We need more people.  We aren't going to get them with the status quo.  It just isn't gonna happen. 

The tutorial seems to have helped a bit, but I think it needs to go further and it sounds like admin is working in that direction.

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49 minutes ago, admin said:

There will be tutorial operation (a set of actions required to unlock all other missions).
One of the steps required to complete the operation will be to join a clan.

I think the final exam of the tutorial shouldn't be part of the tutorial because completing it doesn't prepare a new player to pvp or pve.

It should be in a category of its own: The Challenge Area.... which could be extended and have like a monthly challenge for those who are interested in that kind of thing.

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2 hours ago, Wind said:

1st chapter on basic sailing as it is complex as you progress and will frustrate newcomers. 

It would be an improvement if there was a beginner tutorial, that assumed the player was starting with no knowledge.  I don't think that rewards are needed for the beginner tutorial, just simple instructions to ease players into the game.  I helped a fresh player yesterday, who just wanted to start with sailing and trading.  I encourage newbies to learn the basics with help from a fellow player, and to join a clan.   The game may not be intuitive for a newbie starting from zero without help.

The the current tutorials are best used by players who have some experience with the game.

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I would like to see some sort of process that guides a player into a nation.  Like a pre-tutorial of sorts.  Player X joins the game ands starts off somewhere on a rookie island somewhere or whatever and then is guided to the nation he wants to join....rather than select them at the character screen.  

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1 hour ago, admin said:

There will be tutorial operation (a set of actions required to unlock all other missions).
One of the steps required to complete the operation will be to join a clan.

Question - is this enough? Join clan and then what? What if clan is not doing any pve activities? Add Daily missions and accomplishments, so everyone can get rewarded. 

ex. Clan does not have enough to go pvp let's hit dailys/fleets and help new guys. Fleets must drop something rare, dailys must drop items that people can collect and exchange. 

I had people in clan who only looked for pve and light pvp (too new), but no one did any pve activities (there is not much to do) ,so they quit the game. 

Edited by Wind

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8 minutes ago, Christendom said:

I would like to see some sort of process that guides a player into a nation.  Like a pre-tutorial of sorts.  Player X joins the game ands starts off somewhere on a rookie island somewhere or whatever and then is guided to the nation he wants to join....rather than select them at the character screen.  

This how the story line would look like. 

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1 hour ago, z4ys said:

 

Nobody wants to play with randoms. Let's look at world of warcraft. Doing instances with random grps was a pain. You died many times. Wow has no loss and it's still painful.

NA has loss. Imagine to do epic event with 6 randoms. You cannot retry. A Lose means lose. And now think again why you see no LFG...

Same for goes for portbattles. A random Grp will almost never succeed. So why try in the first place. And randoms don't care about a port. It has no benefit for a random player only drawbacks.

I'm not talking about epics. Just basic entrance into clanlife.

 

A system where you can ask for a claninvite would be something already

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3 hours ago, z4ys said:

 

Nobody wants to play with randoms. Let's look at world of warcraft. Doing instances with random grps was a pain. You died many times. Wow has no loss and it's still painful.

NA has loss. Imagine to do epic event with 6 randoms. You cannot retry. A Lose means lose. And now think again why you see no LFG...

Same for goes for portbattles. A random Grp will almost never succeed. So why try in the first place. And randoms don't care about a port. It has no benefit for a random player only drawbacks.

I agree with the current game mechanics that this is true, but this is more reason why there needs to be more protection for players levelling up and learning the game. Pick up groups are no good for end game content like PB's and Epic events but for missioning and attacking OW AI fleets a pick up group should suffice. The problem with current game is that if you shout out in nation that you are forming a group to do missions or attack OW AI fleets you are guaranteed to attract the attention of gankers who will either get you on the way to the mission or wait till you exit the mission to jump you.

I remember when there were regular shouts for attacking OW AI 1st rate fleets for people levelling, but at that time battles closed sooner and there was not as much ganking around capitals. There was not much fear sailing a 1st or 2nd rate solo to a mission South of KPR, but that changed and the game went more to the way the so called PvP'ers wanted it with easy targets and gank opportunities to what we have now where even the reinforcement zones are not safe. Those shouts for people to join 1st rate OW fleet attacking was where many of the current veterans of PvP learnt their SOL fleet skills and made the friendships and groups that still exist today. But this does not exist any longer for new players as they are thrown in at the deep end so even experienced veterans cannot afford to teach them without risking their own ships.

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