DLC ships

[vazco]

2 hours ago, z4ys said:

But its not broken because it can hug ships. Every schooner could/can hug. If someone wants to claim that pls mention prince, privateer niagara there as well and dont start to blame herc and xebec alone

Noone says it's broken because it can hug ships. Both ships are broken because of reasons you mentioned, because they're free (and thus can be spammed every 24 hours, eg 4 day cool down would be better) and because they have some other unique characteristics you didn't mention, like eg option to mount 6th rate ship knowledges, much higher firepower, a lot of crew, high concentration of guns on short hull etc. 

It's ridiculous how many advantages they have.

Edited July 17, 2018 by vazco

[z4ys]

51 minutes ago, vazco said:

Noone says it's broken because it can hug ships. Both ships are broken because of reasons you mentioned, because they're free (and thus can be spammed every 24 hours, eg 4 day cool down would be better) and because they have some other unique characteristics you didn't mention, like eg option to mount 6th rate ship knowledges, much higher firepower, a lot of crew, high concentration of guns on short hull etc. 

It's ridiculous how many advantages they have.

I can spam a prince every few secs. Is it broken as well?

I can get a prince to 250 as well is she broken? (niagara even higher)

Tbh herc was fine as she first got in and had reduced crew. Reload was slow. But we had those people that wanted to reload both broadsides at the same time.

Let us not look a poods. they were always broken

Edited July 17, 2018 by z4ys

[vazco]

2 hours ago, z4ys said:

I can spam a prince every few secs. Is it broken as well?

I can get a prince to 250 as well is she broken? (niagara even higher)

The end effect counts. I just sank (not boarded) AlbatrosXX, a good player in Bellona, being in a Herc. That's facts. When we started duelling, I had 1 bar of armour and half structure, he had one side at 60% and another one at 100%. I couldn't do this in a Prince, and probably not even in Trinco or Consti. Palatinose and dozen other good players have the same experience. None of them complained about Prince, they only compain about Herc since it's not a one-time ship any more. Those are facts.

(Tutan had to escape when he was beached, then I started duelling Bellona)

 

I guess at this point we can agree to disagree.

Edited July 17, 2018 by vazco

[Aquillas]

I spent all the evening, running after Xebec after Xebec. Not a single fight in 10 engagements… No fun, no pleasure to play. Nothing to report exept a Xebec player would fight only when being sure of winning, he would run if not sure of winning.

They find their fun in Killing the player base, especially new players who are fully unable to disengage from these bullshits.

Kill the Xebec out of the game! I purchased the DLC. I won't use it before it is nerfed. This ship is simply a stupidity.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Eleazar de Damas

[z4ys]

21 minutes ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

I spent all the evening, running after Xebec after Xebec. Not a single fight in 10 engagements… No fun, no pleasure to play. Nothing to report exept a Xebec player would fight only when being sure of winning, he would run if not sure of winning.

They find their fun in Killing the player base, especially new players who are fully unable to disengage from these bullshits.

Kill the Xebec out of the game! I purchased the DLC. I won't use it before it is nerfed. This ship is simply a stupidity.

@vazco Thats an example for the wrong reason. prince privateer can do the same even surprise could do it back in these days.

thats what i wrote about the xebec before she was out as premium:

I am on your side that those ships have to change but not because of some reasons people bring forward here in the forum

Edited July 17, 2018 by z4ys

[jodgi]

11 minutes ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

he would run if not sure of winning.

Some of us started to bemoan this ow+eco main/side(?)effect two years before the Requin was released. But, sure, blame the prems... So hot right now.

[Sir Texas Sir]

12 hours ago, vazco said:

Noone says it's broken because it can hug ships. Both ships are broken because of reasons you mentioned, because they're free (and thus can be spammed every 24 hours, eg 4 day cool down would be better) and because they have some other unique characteristics you didn't mention, like eg option to mount 6th rate ship knowledges, much higher firepower, a lot of crew, high concentration of guns on short hull etc. 

It's ridiculous how many advantages they have.

Even if you delay it a week folks can still spawn a few ships and keep them on hand.  I do thing the spawn rate should be 36-48 hours not 24 which is the same as the yatch a 7th rate.  xebec also should be a 5th rate just like the Herc and that will limit a lot of the problems are having with the ship.

11 hours ago, z4ys said:

I can spam a prince every few secs. Is it broken as well?

I can get a prince to 250 as well is she broken? (niagara even higher)

Tbh herc was fine as she first got in and had reduced crew. Reload was slow. But we had those people that wanted to reload both broadsides at the same time.

Let us not look a poods. they were always broken

Poods honestly should be limited to the pavel only.  Just like 42/36 should be for certain 1st and 2nd rates.

[hoarmurath]

11 hours ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

I spent all the evening, running after Xebec after Xebec. Not a single fight in 10 engagements… No fun, no pleasure to play. Nothing to report exept a Xebec player would fight only when being sure of winning, he would run if not sure of winning.

They find their fun in Killing the player base, especially new players who are fully unable to disengage from these bullshits.

Kill the Xebec out of the game! I purchased the DLC. I won't use it before it is nerfed. This ship is simply a stupidity.

Is this really the fault of the ship? If they weren't doing it in xebec, they would do it in another ship... Is it the fault of the players? No, they do it because they can, and in fact, the game currently encourage them to do it.

 

It's the fault of the game, the ROE and eco are actually encouraging such behaviour.

 

Well, when i said that it's not the players fault, it's not entirely true. They wanted this and did lobbying to ensure they could continue. But now, they are worried because the best ships to do it are behind a paywall.

[z4ys]

2 minutes ago, hoarmurath said:

Is this really the fault of the ship? If they weren't doing it in xebec, they would do it in another ship... Is it the fault of the players? No, they do it because they can, and in fact, the game currently encourage them to do it.

 

It's the fault of the game, the ROE and eco are actually encouraging such behaviour.

 

Well, when i said that it's not the players fault, it's not entirely true. They wanted this and did lobbying to ensure they could continue. But now, they are worried because the best ships to do it are behind a paywall.

That's true. Before it was done with bellonas. But that was fine because it was at least 25 pvp marks. Now it's click and yolo. No regrets.

To give a comparison it's like air rb turned into air Arcade. YOLO in and get as many marks as possible. Like basic cutter in patrol...

But yes we players wanted that. "I don't want to do eco" now it's possible. Click and YOLO and repeat like in any other moba game.

[Palatinose]

18 hours ago, z4ys said:

that makes no sense. Nothing changed to the ship JUST limitation. Thats hypocrisy

yes. nothing but the fact I spawn it everyday vs. I have ONE ship which, can't be replaced. But thats another topic. As i said, no problems with eco bypass.

 

18 hours ago, z4ys said:

both have one thing in common. they exploit game meta at their time. But the reasons most players mentioned here why the ship is op are just wrong.

 

Its op because xebec still has no fixed sail dmg only center shots dmg the rigging

Its op because crew dmg is not working correct (graping the side) - beside the fact some players just dont know how to rake a xebec. Most just shoot like in the picture below only guns have a crew hitbox.

 

18 hours ago, z4ys said:

Its op because the side thickness is way to thick for its bouncy hull shape which let it look like a tank of the sea

 

But its not broken because it can hug ships. Every schooner could/can hug. If someone wants to claim that pls mention prince, privateer niagara there as well and dont start to blame herc and xebec alone.

These resons were mentioned ( I think even by you) and are without doubt valid. Perhaps we just need a fix on the sail, mast and crew hitboxes, a nerf or complete takeout of the jib sail boni working for spankers and we're fine. I would try this for the Requin. 

Concerning the Herc: I might just sail it a bit, kill everything on sight and then agree to you it's totally fine. After that you might call me a hypocrate but I don't care at all because I'm back at ganking the shit out of all the players that just want to enjoy the game on their terms, but just can't. o7

[z4ys]

39 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

... I'm back at ganking the shit out of all the players that just want to enjoy the game on their terms, ...

Isnt that the real definition of pvp? I mean i cant believe that in any pvp game the other side want me to win^^

 

39 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

yes. nothing but the fact I spawn it everyday vs. I have ONE ship which, can't be replaced. But thats another topic. As i said, no problems with eco bypass.

The problem is not the spawn every day. Its that those ships have no value. They create yolo playstyle like the basic cutter before ROE change or recently in the patrol.

39 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

Concerning the Herc

I am not sure yet what breaks the herc. The totaly awesome turnrate of the ship I havent encountered yet. But maybe i am just spoiled by the xebec turnrate.

She is not low like niagara but she is short. Which makes her hard to hit in a different way and is a huge advantage vs long ships in a short range combat. But that applies to many more ships.

poods make her a beast with fast reload but poods are broken on every ship

ofc the 18pd/poods are a huge advantage they can pen other shallow ships at most angle.

Edited July 18, 2018 by z4ys

[hoarmurath]

3 hours ago, Palatinose said:

After that you might call me a hypocrate but I don't care at all because I'm back at ganking the shit out of all the players that just want to enjoy the game on their terms, but just can't. o7

That's what most people are doing from day 1, long time before the introduction of dlc ships... dlc ships changed nothing. All it changed is the people who could do it. It seem those that were doing it before are now angry because they're not the only ones that can do it anymore...  So sad... 🤣

[Palatinose]

1 hour ago, hoarmurath said:

That's what most people are doing from day 1, long time before the introduction of dlc ships... dlc ships changed nothing. All it changed is the people who could do it. It seem those that were doing it before are now angry because they're not the only ones that can do it anymore...  So sad... 🤣

You're completely wrong in thinking the people changed. We got old hunters back that weren't successful because of the safe zone RoE and e.g. british coast guard performing well. These people are back and worse than before. Visit Mortimer Town ( I just did with a couple of guys in Bellonas, wrong choice at this time obviously) and all you will see is mostly Prussian and French Hercs and Requins. There is a couple of fir/fir Belle Poules and that's it. Combat news is full of it. And I can assure you it's not noobs or new players that come there and hunt. It's veteran gankers at their finest and the chance to catch them goes against 0. KPR kills are also back en vogue. These ships at their current form promote pvp, just not the kind that's of any worth for middle or longterm future of the game. 

@z4ys I agree more "studies" on countering the Herc have to be performed as well as on your point of the carpe diem  playstyle. Still I'm convinced that bypassing eco is a thing many players want and therefore is good for the pop. I would hope to find some adjusting screws to tweak/nerf the ships a "little". Imo that's better than taking away an easy access to pvp. 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Palatinose said:

 I agree more "studies" on countering the Herc have to be performed as well as on your point of the carpe diem  playstyle. Still I'm convinced that bypassing eco is a thing many players want and therefore is good for the pop. I would hope to find some adjusting screws to tweak/nerf the ships a "little". Imo that's better than taking away an easy access to pvp. 

It's horrible that some people want to bypass eco. Eco is the driving force of the game. Just goes to show how much local economy is gonna change the game when it's released.

[z4ys]

6 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

 I agree more "studies" on countering the Herc have to be performed as well as on your point of the carpe diem  playstyle. Still I'm convinced that bypassing eco is a thing many players want and therefore is good for the pop. I would hope to find some adjusting screws to tweak/nerf the ships a "little". Imo that's better than taking away an easy access to pvp. 

I cant agree more that we need a nerf. But what I try to point out the whole time is that the ships itself is 20% broken(with it bouncy hull and tickness, somewhat bugged sail and crew dmg) whats flawed are many mechanics and mods. The xebec (herc) are just the visible top of the iceberg but it goes much deeper.

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by z4ys

[Palatinose]

Just now, Slim McSauce said:

It's horrible that some people want to bypass eco. Eco is the driving force of the game. Just goes to show how much local economy is gonna change the game when it's released.

Then again it's only a 6th and a smaller 5th. What we do eco mostly for is RvR (END GAME CONTENT CAPS INTENDED), meaning the largest amounts of gold and ressources are needed in crafting SoLs.

[Slim McSauce]

1 minute ago, Palatinose said:

Then again it's only a 6th and a smaller 5th. What we do eco mostly for is RvR (END GAME CONTENT CAPS INTENDED), meaning the largest amounts of gold and ressources are needed in crafting SoLs.

So we're completely missing the lower half of the economy is what you're saying. Not to mention the surplus of pvp marks that have everyone using the same non-crafted ships.
The market is nothing like it use to be, crafting is pretty irrelevant. You either have a full eco that everyone is participating in or you're not playing the same game anymore.
Each sect of the game relies on the other, crafters sell to PVPers, pvpers kill, increasing demand, traders trade, crafters buy from traders. The circle of life, we don't have that anymore.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Palatinose]

Mmh I don't agree here, at least for the Xebec. The sail force boni refits are too strong/unbalanced on many ships. Concerning the cobination of Xebec and elite PR/PR -> it's totally  broken. But its not the refit itself, it's the combo.

[Palatinose]

4 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

So we're completely missing the lower half of the economy is what you're saying. Not to mention the surplus of pvp marks that have everyone using the same non-crafted ships.
The market is nothing like it use to be, crafting is pretty irrelevant. You either have a full eco that everyone is participating in or you're not playing the same game anymore.
Each sect of the game relies on the other, crafters sell to PVPers, pvpers kill, increasing demand, traders trade, crafters buy from traders. The circle of life, we don't have that anymore.

I do all that.

[Slim McSauce]

2 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

I do all that.

You buy crafted bellonas over using PVP marks for notes? Can't say the same for most. Clearly the same rules of economy don't apply to everyone or else we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Lovec1990]

1 minute ago, Slim McSauce said:

You buy crafted bellonas over using PVP marks for notes? Can't say the same for most. Clearly the same rules of economy don't apply to everyone or else we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Its alot more economical at KPR if you sell 30PvP marks you can buy 2 crafted teak/WO bellonas

[Palatinose]

4 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

You buy crafted bellonas over using PVP marks for notes? Can't say the same for most. Clearly the same rules of economy don't apply to everyone or else we wouldn't be having this conversation.

It's just easier and cheaper to craft methinks, it's all about communication and cooperation. That hasn't really changed. The search for the perfect ship floods some markets with ships. I think ships have never been cheaper. BUt that doesn't really belong in this specific topic, that's more of a basic/global (NA) topic.

[Slim McSauce]

6 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

Its alot more economical at KPR if you sell 30PvP marks you can buy 2 crafted teak/WO bellonas

Some people have hundreds of marks and billions of gold in assets and will never need to buy a crafted bellona when they can spawn one at any outpost with a note.

Some people will from here on only use the DLC shallow water ships because they're free and readily spawnable anywhere.

You can't beat the ease of bypassing economy.

[Hethwill]

7 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

hundreds

of hundreds

[Fenris]

On 7/15/2018 at 1:05 PM, vazco said:

 

Seems that people like you like the feeling of being uber-elite you're describing and having some advantage over others. I understand this. It's just a pitty your advantage comes from your wallet, not from your skills, and that once more people buy the ship, people who won't buy them will have a very bad experience in-game. They will probably leave, sinking this game.

ps. A sealclubber without a Herc is fairly harmless. A sealclubber in a herc is free to do whatever he wants, without consequences.

Aaaaaaand another reason/cause this project has gone bye bye

Poor Naval Action, will you ever be worth playing again......