DLC ships

[Mr Lascivious Lavender]

On 7/13/2018 at 7:51 PM, Diceman said:

Your argument is flawed.

Skill has very little to do with anything when the uber elite player is out equipping their prey. You put 2 uber elites in a battle, one has all the best materials and mods and the other in a basic average material no mod ship. Who wins?? 

Now let’s bring this to what really happens in game. Several uber elites in their gold mega mod ships, on comms, coming to some nations protected zone to actively prey upon the player that is low rank & low experience  grinding their way up the rank tree in a store bought basic ship that the low rank player (scrub) has just spent virtually ALL their gold to purchase and equip with cannon, repair kits and maybe one or two skills or grey mods that they have earned while grinding. The uber elite does NOT come to fight another uber elite. They come to farm the scrubs. That is cowardly and shameful!!!

This is proven because the uber elites most often run when an overwhelming revenge fleet appears. And if the uber elite gets caught and sunk... then forum posts are made to nerf certain ships or change game mechanics because it is IMPOSSIBLE that the uber elite should get sunk by a scrub gang in less than ships. 

Uber elite: a player with over inflated self worth sailing a max equipped ship in a gang with other elites who actively farms the new and inexperienced but runs from equally experienced players and when/if caught/sunk immediately proceeds to forum to get changes made to the game to benefit themselves and prevent any loss of the all important over inflated  self worth.

Is this you??

Your whole premise here is wrong.

 

New, 2-week-old characters, hardly any skill books (definitely not the good ones) or ship slots to put them in and only basic mods. My essex was an undercrewed AI-capped fir/crewspace/shabby. Bellona's were crafted but nothing special. Of course the Herc is a Herc but it was the exam reward and spent most of the battle trying to stay afloat.

The other guys: well established characters, 5 slot ocean & Buc and you can bet they had the best skill books and mods. 

According to you we had no chance, because player skill counts for nothing and it's all about skills & mods. I say that's not the case, player skill can still beat gear!

 

Now, on topic: the requin especially is the ultimate cheese -mobile. It is:

- Massively overcrewed having even more crew than heavy frigates

- elite pirate rig refit has no downside

- even downwind it is very fast

- it can escape everything upwind

- it promotes seal clubbing: go in when you are sure to win, run from anything that might give you a challenge.

- and even if experienced players run coastguard actions it's pointless. kill them today, they will be back tomorrow.

[vazco]

 

38 minutes ago, hoarmurath said:

The players that are complaining the most about dlc ships are those that are into seal clubbing business, because, curiously, when it come to seal clubbing, they like to do it, but aren't as eager to be on the receiving side of the club.

 

Personally, i find their reaction hilarious.... 🤣

Seems that people like you like the feeling of being uber-elite you're describing and having some advantage over others. I understand this. It's just a pitty your advantage comes from your wallet, not from your skills, and that once more people buy the ship, people who won't buy them will have a very bad experience in-game. They will probably leave, sinking this game.

ps. A sealclubber without a Herc is fairly harmless. A sealclubber in a herc is free to do whatever he wants, without consequences.

[Slim McSauce]

9 hours ago, Captiva said:

I want:

The 'Minister of Alts' DLC for $59.99; gives me five alts at a considerable savings for not having to buy five individual Naval Action accounts! Does not hurt the balance of the game whatsoever! 

And,

The 'Prolific Shipbuilder' DLC for $19.99; This give me five ships (dura) for one build. Does not hurt the balance of the game whatsoever! Get's you back out there immediately after being sunk and you don't have to wait 24 hours to do it as you do for the Hercules and Xebec DLC! The downside is that these ships are capturable and you have to rebuild them after the fifth dura. : (

Combine both of these for just $69:99 with the new 'Gene Roddenberry Naval Action' DLC!

DLC's should be: paints, extra outposts, extra buildings, banners, the forger and maybe some others that I can't think of...but that's it.

 

Hahaha, this. New players, old players, whatever. Having a load of free respawning DLC ships in a game that has and always revolved around some sort of economy is inherently unbalanced for the most obvious reasons. I can't believe this is still an argument.

Next up, "Legend of the Legends" DLC. Get any ship you want for free+cannons+mods in any port. That'll bring more pvp for sure! 

[Lovec1990]

9 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Hahaha, this. New players, old players, whatever. Having a load of free respawning DLC ships in a game that has and always revolved around some sort of economy is inherently unbalanced for the most obvious reasons. I can't believe this is still an argument.

Next up, "Legend of the Legends" DLC. Get any ship you want for free+cannons+mods in any port. That'll bring more pvp for sure! 

dunno but in my expirience DLC ships brought more PvP at least im far more willing too sail in OW searching for PvP. DLC ships only need too be balanced plus we need proper deepwater imported(premium) ship

[HachiRoku]

13 hours ago, vazco said:

I have the same experience. You get ganked by 3 Hercules with recently killed status. You kill 2, third one gets you since your crew is at 93. You get to a fight with an experienced player in a Herc and he can out-DPS you by gluing to you, or kill your crew. If he has mast mods, it's hard to deal with him due to a hard to hit hull and high maneuverability.

Btw, in the first fight we were in I didn't know La Requin would join. Rest were non-DLC ships

gank is still a gank man but i dont hold grudges. 

[Diceman]

7 hours ago, vazco said:

I feel like you're trolling. I'll take a bait though.

If currently in my Trinc I have issues with a Hercules gank, it's impossible for a new player to survive it. If me and all experienced active players will be forced to only sail DLC ships, then anyone without this ship will be at a disadvantage. Those are mostly new players, or casual players like you, who can't pay to buy an OP ship, like you did.

Your temporary feeling that you can finally troll or compete with experienced players will go away, being replaced by a feeling of getting wrecked every time by an experienced player in a tiny ship. You will have this experience:

 

 

Not trolling. I have a legit beef with your line of thinking and do not buy what you’re selling. Particularly when YOUR statement backs my point. YOU stated YOU want the DLC ship nerfed because YOU are having a hard time fighting it. Hiding that in some smoke about how it’d be better for the average/scrub player base is BS.

ANYONE can pay to buy DLC. If someone is so cheap/broke that they can’t afford $10 then they shouldn’t be playing this game, they should be out looking for a job. 

The experienced players whose battle results you posted are VERY experienced and if you put them (Christendom or Rainsborough) in a basic cutter they’d give most any player in ANY ship a very, very hard time if not outright beat them!! I’ve been on the losing side against Christendom. It was a fun fight and I learned. I put that fight up for everyone to see on YouTube. I’m not ashamed of losing, its part of life. No negative feelings for me and I look forward to encountering him again. 

Your last paragraph shows you just don’t get it. I was already “getting wrecked” and I will continue “getting wrecked” ... that’s part of this game. If the DLC ships give me the opportunity to prevent from having to go all the way back to basic cutter when I do “get wrecked”. That’s a good thing. If the DLC ships are better than my normal store bought trash ship with one mod. Thats a good thing. If the DLC ship OPness helps me and not you in a fight. Thats a good thing. As a scrub player, I find it insulting that the uber elite think they know what’s better for me than I do... Devs, please keeping putting that DLC out there and you’ll get my money!!! More content is good! More money in the Devs pockets is good because it gets us... more content! And if that content encourages the scrubs to fight more... THATS GOOD! 

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Diceman
Grammar

[jodgi]

18 hours ago, Diceman said:

Who is gonna pay real money for a ship that has no perk???

It may be true that the more capable the ship the more it sells, but I truly don't need, but more to the point, don't want even close to OP premiums.

Their main feature or selling point for me is that they allow me to partly bypass boring eco. Now they're beaten with the ugly stick in the form of cooldown, that somewhat diminishes their value. But, as a fan I'd buy several normal ships with premium status to mitigate the eco imposed cooldown.

Premium ships are given the bad "OP" name not mainly because of their inherent qualities but rather because of the good old mod stacking. That has been a problem since day one, but what can we do when do many sandboxers love the excessive customization? Nah... There is hope, admin has a plan to deal with that which sounds like it'll work.

[Diceman]

5 hours ago, Mr Lascivious Lavender said:

Your whole premise here is wrong.

 

New, 2-week-old characters, hardly any skill books (definitely not the good ones) or ship slots to put them in and only basic mods. My essex was an undercrewed AI-capped fir/crewspace/shabby. Bellona's were crafted but nothing special. Of course the Herc is a Herc but it was the exam reward and spent most of the battle trying to stay afloat.

The other guys: well established characters, 5 slot ocean & Buc and you can bet they had the best skill books and mods. 

According to you we had no chance, because player skill counts for nothing and it's all about skills & mods. I say that's not the case, player skill can still beat gear!

 

Now, on topic: the requin especially is the ultimate cheese -mobile. It is:

- Massively overcrewed having even more crew than heavy frigates

- elite pirate rig refit has no downside

- even downwind it is very fast

- it can escape everything upwind

- it promotes seal clubbing: go in when you are sure to win, run from anything that might give you a challenge.

- and even if experienced players run coastguard actions it's pointless. kill them today, they will be back tomorrow.

What I see from that battle result is an epic win! Well done!! 

Were you on comms? Were they? Did you out maneuver/coordinate them and stern camp them down? Those are slow ships... Lots of questions on this one. I’d love to see this fight!!! 

Video on YouTube to watch?? Why not?!?! If you have not posted this fight to YouTube, then shame on you. If you have the recording, send it to me and I’ll post it.

I’ve never said player skill counts for nothing. If I did give that impression then I need to and do apologize for that. I did say player skill plus mods counts for more!!! Maybe those guys aren’t very skilled and have just been relying on mods to carry them through... And I would never have said that there was no chance for you either. There’s always a chance and it’s good to see an epic win like this!!! But I can’t really comment on this fight without having seen it. My initial reaction is 4 coordinated quicker more maneuverable ships ass raping 3 large slower less maneuverable ships... is that what happened? Anyway, well done!

I have no comment on the Xebec. Not my cup of tea. Not planning to buy that. Don’t like the sails and I’m not a boarder...

But your last statement is important!! “Kill them today, they will be back tomorrow.”  Not a bad thing!! More proof that DLC is providing more game content (fights)!! That’s a GOOD thing!!

Coast guard ops are never pointless!! 

 

[Slim McSauce]

4 hours ago, Lovec1990 said:

dunno but in my expirience DLC ships brought more PvP at least im far more willing too sail in OW searching for PvP. DLC ships only need too be balanced plus we need proper deepwater imported(premium) ship

Absolutely it has, I'm not denying that. Boring ECO was the problem, DLC ships is the bandaid that soon festers. The ship itself is a premium, you will probably never sail one unless you buy the DLC, but where does it include in the DLC you will no longer have to craft or buy crafted ships?

It should be a $40 dollar DLC, that's one hell of a thing to sell someone in your game where economy is kind of a big deal.

[vazco]

1 hour ago, Diceman said:

More proof that DLC is providing more game content (fights)!! That’s a GOOD thing!!

I guess you've convinced me. I took out my Hercules and went to Mortimer. Effect - within 90 minutes I sank 4 ships. Indiaman and Wappen didn't stand a chance - they were not maneuverable or fast enough. Another Herc wasn't experienced - it was a quick death for him. A pirate frigate doing missions didn't even know what hit him.

All of this in reinforcement zone. Reinforcements were useless against my Herc.

I guess I'll buy DLC now. Screw everyone who doesn't have a Herc - let them buy DLC or quit the game, I don't care. CRUSH UBER ELITES!!! Only paying users shoud win in this game! They should have more fights! Thats a GOOD thing!

[z4ys]

29 minutes ago, vazco said:

I guess you've convinced me. I took out my Hercules and went to Mortimer. Effect - within 90 minutes I sank 4 ships. Indiaman and Wappen didn't stand a chance - they were not maneuverable or fast enough. Another Herc wasn't experienced - it was a quick death for him. A pirate frigate doing missions didn't even know what hit him.

All of this in reinforcement zone. Reinforcements were useless against my Herc.

I guess I'll buy DLC now. Screw everyone who doesn't have a Herc - let them buy DLC or quit the game, I don't care. CRUSH UBER ELITES!!! Only paying users shoud win in this game! They should have more fights! Thats a GOOD thing!

you could be the other guys waiting for the dudes that come to sink your nation players in your reinforcement zone. You dont need to use a dlc ships for that. Just the right ship with the right set up to catch those guys. Best nation to be in is british nation. Lot of players come daily to KPR or Belize.

Edited July 15, 2018 by z4ys

[Diceman]

34 minutes ago, vazco said:

I guess you've convinced me. I took out my Hercules and went to Mortimer. Effect - within 90 minutes I sank 4 ships. Indiaman and Wappen didn't stand a chance - they were not maneuverable or fast enough. Another Herc wasn't experienced - it was a quick death for him. A pirate frigate doing missions didn't even know what hit him.

All of this in reinforcement zone. Reinforcements were useless against my Herc.

I guess I'll buy DLC now. Screw everyone who doesn't have a Herc - let them buy DLC or quit the game, I don't care. CRUSH UBER ELITES!!! Only paying users shoud win in this game! They should have more fights! Thats a GOOD thing!

Sounds like the pirates need to get a coast guard up and running... 

Devs, if this dude buys a Herc DLC do I get a commission??? Maybe a nice paint or something??? 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Diceman
Grammar

[vazco]

8 minutes ago, z4ys said:

you could be the other guys waiting for the dudes that come to sink your nation players in your reinforcement zone. You dont need to use a dlc ships for that. Just the right ship with the right set up to catch those guys

I like to fight against the odds, not in the gank catching hunters. It's fairly boring when you shoot your guns once every few fights.

Still, only a 6th rate or good warp-in through reinforcement zone can catch a well built Herc with a good captain. From 6th rates, only Herc (and maybe Requin) can actually compete with a Herc.

The only reason I don't hunt in Hercules in a protected zone is that it's an unrestricted seal-clubbing in it's purest form.

Mind my prediction - soon PvP will be only about one ship and soon people will get bored with the fact that it's only one ship. It's Wasa all over again.

[z4ys]

4 minutes ago, vazco said:

I like to fight against the odds, not in the gank catching hunters. It's fairly boring when you shoot your guns once every few fights.

Still, only a 6th rate or good warp-in through reinforcement zone can catch a well built Herc with a good captain. From 6th rates, only Herc (and maybe Requin) can actually compete with a Herc.

The only reason I don't hunt in Hercules in a protected zone is that it's an unrestricted seal-clubbing in it's purest form.

Mind my prediction - soon PvP will be only about one ship and soon people will get bored with the fact that it's only one ship. It's Wasa all over again.

spot a hunter in your zone. attack Ai close to him. Vola fight against the odds. Dont call in nation chat for help and you will have a nice solo fight. hail the "no names visible in ow"

But might be bit hardcore right?

Edited July 15, 2018 by z4ys

[vazco]

5 minutes ago, z4ys said:

spot a hunter in your zone. attack Ai close to him. Vola fight against the odds. Dont call in nation chat for help and you will have a nice solo fight. hail the "no names visible in ow"

But might be bit hardcore right?

Almost every day I fight around Gustavia 4 vs 1, way against the odds in BR and numbers, and with experienced players. I don't have issues with getting such fights. What you're describing is not hardcore, it's fairly safe and consists of mostly waiting 

What I think is bad for the game though is that with DLC ships you can dictate whether you want to engage or not, and you have great odds of sinking any ship 1 vs 1. That's pay to win in terms of PvP and that's an unbalanced ship. That's the topic we're discussing, not ways of getting fights.

 

[Lovec1990]

DLC ships will always be most popular PvP choice even if they are propetly balanced against non-DLC ships and thats becouse they are way cheaper to replace

[jodgi]

2 hours ago, vazco said:

Mind my prediction - soon PvP will be only about one ship

Well, there's the smaller ships rebalance to mix it up a bit and the possible expansion of the prem lineup.

Should it be possible for premium ships to become as popular as you're predicting if the ow is filled with fans of eco and crafting?

[jodgi]

Hi there, sunshine!

[Slim McSauce]

double oof

[z4ys]

15 hours ago, vazco said:

 

ps. A sealclubber without a Herc is fairly harmless. A sealclubber in a herc is free to do whatever he wants, without consequences.

A sealclubber in a bellona, renomee,  ingermanland faces the same consequences as someone in a herc if all their ships go 15.5.

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 hours ago, z4ys said:

A sealclubber in a bellona, renomee,  ingermanland faces the same consequences as someone in a herc if all their ships go 15.5.

Other than the very first time I went up against a herc they have lost compar e to our none DLC ships now that we know how to take them down.  They aren’t win all ships.  The only time I have lost against them in PVP zone is cause they had mor numbers on the other side not cause of the Hercs.

yes I hey are going to seen op in a good players hands but let’s be honest 90% of the players and seal clubbers aren’t the best players out there and this is coming from some one that sees himself as a very average player.

[z4ys]

The only thing about those ships is that with very little modification effort they get into the high end class while ships like renomee, bellona etc need way more love (aka gear) to reach that lvl. Suddenly average Joe can compete with elite Franz. That makes Franz sad

[StaleMemes]

On 7/14/2018 at 5:51 PM, Diceman said:

Who is gonna pay real money for a ship that has no perk??? 

People will pay real money to wear hotdog hats and put Christmas lights on weapons, they will pay for a ship that's only unique with no big advantage.

[vazco]

4 hours ago, z4ys said:

Suddenly average Joe can compete with elite Franz.

Provided that elite Franz doesn't have a DLC ship as well.

In the same time average joe without DLC ship can't compete with anyone who has a DLC ship.

It's not about Franz - I would support a change which would limit the gap between experienced and new players (that's something I did many times in the past).

It's about a new gap - between paying and non-paying captains. In the same time it doesn't remove a difference between elite Franz and average Joe while they both have or don't have DLC.

[z4ys]

10 minutes ago, vazco said:

In the same time average joe without DLC ship can't compete with anyone who has a DLC ship.

Why he can not? I thought that franz is willing to face the odds means joe will notice his chance and fight.

In the surprise periode that ship did exactly the same. Fought as long as it wanted just to go upwind to run away when things went bad. Where is the difference?

Edited July 16, 2018 by z4ys