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Eliminating DLC ships from port battles eliminates the majority of your issue with them.  Though very seldom does one cap and take control of another ship in the PB (usually just sunk for points).  

I mean I guess I see the problem.  But it really isn't a big one.  You can cap and sink them no problem, but you just can't flee on one.  I just don't see this as a major issue that breaks the game.  the population increase and PVP increase from the DLCs offsets just about all the downsides in my opinion.

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12 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Eliminating DLC ships from port battles eliminates the majority of your issue with them.  Though very seldom does one cap and take control of another ship in the PB (usually just sunk for points).  

I mean I guess I see the problem.  But it really isn't a big one.  You can cap and sink them no problem, but you just can't flee on one.  I just don't see this as a major issue that breaks the game.  the population increase and PVP increase from the DLCs offsets just about all the downsides in my opinion.

Paying money and then being restricted from game activities! Only dumb people will buy such DLCs. They need to tweak stats and introduce free refits that will match premium ships if they want to have competitive sales. Once people find out they are restricted then let the fun begin. Lol. Port battles shpuld be full of variety and not same boring sh*t.

Finally, we come down to ship balance problem that will hurt everything in this game until it’s fixed.

 

 

Edited by Wind

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Been looking throughout a vast array of different products with similar situations and it all sums up to this:

- single items DLC are sold as is

- majority did bet, especially in the recent past, in Expansions - collection of items along with "world" content ( new areas, etc )

Cutting out access to any part of the game by any of the mentioned - single item DLC or in a expansion pack - is never heard of.

What could be done regarding the DLC ships is - any player owning the DLC can effectively capture a DLC ship and use it. The rest simply gets the "market value" of the ship in marks and battle rewards.

Also, 1 DLC model present in character account at ANY time. Not 2, not 4 , not 10, not in fleets - but 1!

This is the same for other games where one does not own the "expansion" and therefore cannot use the expansion items BUT can sell them to the market - in the case of NA, cannot capture the ship but can sink it and receive the rewards ( marks, etc )

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On 7/9/2018 at 1:43 PM, victor said:

I'd suggest to search for the solution the other way round: make DLC ships and/or contents also purchasable with PVP or victory marks.

P2Win becomes pay to speed up progress: if you buy the premium content you have an easier access to a content that is available, but with some effort, also to the ones that do not pay.

It's a model that a lot of MMO free game use.

 

I second that..

Although I would prefer no DLC ships at all. I never play P2W games and I am disappointed with the direction this is going.

I have been on and off this game since it came out. Point is I always like playing this game, but it has turned to a P2W with those two ships. 

In OW when you encounter one those two, you're a done deal.. how's that not a P2W?

Edited by Jorge Cuervo
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especially when you're sacrificing your in game economy for DLC ships, not many games go such route

 

especially when you're sacrificing your in game economy for DLC ships, not many games go such route and I cant say I like NA doing it, especially before even getting in the new economy

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On 7/10/2018 at 1:44 AM, Diceman said:

No tradeable!!!

No captureable!!!!

Both the above would be abused greatly!

Please do not nerf heavily either! I get that minor fixes will be required but major nerfs to make the elites in this game more comfortable would be wrong in my opinion. I agree no PBs for DLC ships but as screeners, they would be awesome!!! The elites fear these ships cause they can come close to matching the elite gold OP stack ships generally used in PBs. 

I feel the current price and redemption rates are fair. 

More DLC please!!! If the uber elites are crying about it, it must be a good thing!!!

 

What do you mean with elite? The players who has better skills than you? There is not one reason why they shouldn't win all the time against less experienced players. Basis of every good game is that the best is winning not the one who can afford a ship which is not to kill in an even fight.

By the way. The chance to craft a golden ship is for every player the same. No matter if he plays since years or only a few months. The only requirement to built golden ships is a shipyard.

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7 hours ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

What do you mean with elite? The players who has better skills than you? There is not one reason why they shouldn't win all the time against less experienced players. Basis of every good game is that the best is winning not the one who can afford a ship which is not to kill in an even fight.

By the way. The chance to craft a golden ship is for every player the same. No matter if he plays since years or only a few months. The only requirement to built golden ships is a shipyard.

Your argument is flawed.

Skill has very little to do with anything when the uber elite player is out equipping their prey. You put 2 uber elites in a battle, one has all the best materials and mods and the other in a basic average material no mod ship. Who wins?? 

Now let’s bring this to what really happens in game. Several uber elites in their gold mega mod ships, on comms, coming to some nations protected zone to actively prey upon the player that is low rank & low experience  grinding their way up the rank tree in a store bought basic ship that the low rank player (scrub) has just spent virtually ALL their gold to purchase and equip with cannon, repair kits and maybe one or two skills or grey mods that they have earned while grinding. The uber elite does NOT come to fight another uber elite. They come to farm the scrubs. That is cowardly and shameful!!!

This is proven because the uber elites most often run when an overwhelming revenge fleet appears. And if the uber elite gets caught and sunk... then forum posts are made to nerf certain ships or change game mechanics because it is IMPOSSIBLE that the uber elite should get sunk by a scrub gang in less than ships. 

Uber elite: a player with over inflated self worth sailing a max equipped ship in a gang with other elites who actively farms the new and inexperienced but runs from equally experienced players and when/if caught/sunk immediately proceeds to forum to get changes made to the game to benefit themselves and prevent any loss of the all important over inflated  self worth.

Is this you??

 

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6 hours ago, Diceman said:

Your argument is flawed.

Skill has very little to do with anything when the uber elite player is out equipping their prey. You put 2 uber elites in a battle, one has all the best materials and mods and the other in a basic average material no mod ship. Who wins?? 

Now let’s bring this to what really happens in game. Several uber elites in their gold mega mod ships, on comms, coming to some nations protected zone to actively prey upon the player that is low rank & low experience  grinding their way up the rank tree in a store bought basic ship that the low rank player (scrub) has just spent virtually ALL their gold to purchase and equip with cannon, repair kits and maybe one or two skills or grey mods that they have earned while grinding. The uber elite does NOT come to fight another uber elite. They come to farm the scrubs. That is cowardly and shameful!!!

This is proven because the uber elites most often run when an overwhelming revenge fleet appears. And if the uber elite gets caught and sunk... then forum posts are made to nerf certain ships or change game mechanics because it is IMPOSSIBLE that the uber elite should get sunk by a scrub gang in less than ships. 

Uber elite: a player with over inflated self worth sailing a max equipped ship in a gang with other elites who actively farms the new and inexperienced but runs from equally experienced players and when/if caught/sunk immediately proceeds to forum to get changes made to the game to benefit themselves and prevent any loss of the all important over inflated  self worth.

Is this you??

 

Spot on Diceman,

They are moaning because their usual tactics are under threat.

 

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people complain requin is OP yet they do not see his bad sides for example i have hard time catching enemy squared rigged ship sailing with a wind yet they cannot catch me when i go against wind.

 

I personaly want Santa cecilia as DLC its so beautiful ship plus its light frigate 

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On 7/13/2018 at 7:51 PM, Diceman said:

Uber elite: a player with over inflated self worth sailing a max equipped ship in a gang with other elites who actively farms the new and inexperienced but runs from equally experienced players and when/if caught/sunk immediately proceeds to forum to get changes made to the game to benefit themselves and prevent any loss of the all important over inflated  self worth.

Can you name one such player? I don't recall any to be honest.

The player which you describe would probably buy Hercules with his friends, equip them with great mods, and gank in those ships. It would be extremely annoying for anyone else, as it would be impossible to counter without paying real money for the ship. Since not everyone would do this, it would give such player a constant flow of prey, until game is deserted.

That's basically what people discussing in this thread want to avoid.

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6 minutes ago, vazco said:

Can you name one such player? I don't recall any to be honest.

The player which you describe would probably buy Hercules with his friends, equip them with great mods, and gank in those ships. It would be extremely annoying for anyone else, as it would be impossible to counter without paying real money for the ship. Since not everyone would do this, it would give such player a constant flow of prey, until game is deserted.

That's basically what people discussing in this thread want to avoid.

This is exactly what is happening. Fleets of hercs modded up bashing newbs.

Just sail round mort to see the prussians and their hercs hunting new players. We can get PvP just trying to intercept them but the new players are being smashed day in day out. Does anyone hunt in anything but a herc now?

 

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33 minutes ago, Crow said:

This is exactly what is happening. Fleets of hercs modded up bashing newbs.

Just sail round mort to see the prussians and their hercs hunting new players. We can get PvP just trying to intercept them but the new players are being smashed day in day out. Does anyone hunt in anything but a herc now?

 

But why are the NEW players the ones being hunted??? 

All these uber elites claim they want PvP but since when is clubbing seals PvP??

And when a revenge fleet does develop, most often the uber elites run and then if they’re caught and sunk... NOW gank fleets are a problem??? And we need changes to the game that allow easier escapes??? WTF??

Ganking is part of this game. It just is. One mans gank is another mans grief. We will be arguing this forever.

But I would expect veteran players with superior skills and ships to conduct themselves better. Some do, many don’t. If you’re 3 ranks above someone sailing in vastly different tiered ships, maybe you should leave them be... 

The DLC ships are a good thing because they offer the low skill/money player to average skill/money player a moderately good ship off the shelf to at least have a chance to compete without breaking the bank. Much better chance than a capped rookie Brig!!! Granted that the uber elite will stack mods on theirs to maintain the “natural order of things”... but that’s the game.

The calls for the nerf bat to DLC ships by senior players smacks of elites wanting to maintain their position of superiority over the unwashed masses in my honest opinion. And it’s a totally hypocritical call when those same elites are rolling around in DLC ships stacked with mods. If they’re so good, roll in regular ships and demonstrate those awesome skills...

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1 hour ago, vazco said:

Can you name one such player? I don't recall any to be honest.

The player which you describe would probably buy Hercules with his friends, equip them with great mods, and gank in those ships. It would be extremely annoying for anyone else, as it would be impossible to counter without paying real money for the ship. Since not everyone would do this, it would give such player a constant flow of prey, until game is deserted.

That's basically what people discussing in this thread want to avoid.

Isn’t naming against forum rules??

Its pretty easy to spot them though...

And those people are doing exactly what you described. Buying DLC, stacking mods, rolling in gank fleets... already happening. But at the same time they call for restrictions and nerfs in forum. Almost always calling for nerfs/changes that really only favor their position as elites. 

DLC ships have to have some qualities that set them apart. Otherwise why would anyone buy them? Who is gonna pay real money for a ship that has no perk??? The Devs could’ve just added them to the store in game as trash ships... 

More DLC ships please.

My personal choice. A nicely buffed Connie with a yellow ochre hull side stripe please...

Someone (Lovec1990) said the Santa Cecilia... 

More DLC!!!

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11 hours ago, Crow said:

Does anyone hunt in anything but a herc now?

Yes, I hunt in a Trinco. I'm getting more and more frustrated with Hercs fighting me in my Trinc though.  Herc has a few advantages, being free is the main of them. I don't use it only because I don't want to, but I feel forced to do this more and more. That feels kind of like pay to win.

10 hours ago, Diceman said:

And those people are doing exactly what you described. Buying DLC, stacking mods, rolling in gank fleets... already happening. But at the same time they call for restrictions and nerfs in forum. Almost always calling for nerfs/changes that really only favor their position as elites. 

I'm the one who started two quite popular threads to nerf DLC ships. I don't know if you include me in your subjective "uber elite" class. I'm advocating for a nerf exactly to protect new players and introduce balance, not to "be able to use my old tactics and keep superiority".

It's quite obvious that DLC's will be bought by most dedicated players, and not newbs or saturday players you want to protect. Those ships also require a certain level of skill to use. In bad player hands a Herc will be simply demasted and sank. In good player hands it can sink almost anything given time. Those ships actually increase skill gap.

I kind of have a feeling that you're talking from your perspective - maybe you're not as experienced and you like the advantage DLC ship gives you over some other players. It's however not protecting most of the new players.

Edited by vazco
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On 7/13/2018 at 7:51 PM, Diceman said:

Several uber elites in their gold mega mod ships, on comms, coming to some nations protected zone to actively prey upon the player that is low rank & low experience

real elites don't hunt in groups :) Real Elites only fight each other. Those people out for the easy marks are meta gaming trash imo.  

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1 minute ago, vazco said:

Yes, I hunt in a Trinco. I'm getting more and more frustrated with Hercs fighting me in my Trinc though.  Herc has a few advantages, being free is the main of them. I don't use it only because I don't want to, but I feel forced to do this more and more. That feels kind of like pay to win

Im not taking another trinco. Out. Im currently loosing all ships to mega requin ganks. Just like the battle your ganked me with. I was surprised by that.  

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Just now, HachiRoku said:

Im not taking another trinco. Out. Im currently loosing all ships to mega requin ganks. Just like the battle your ganked me with. I was surprised by that.  

I have the same experience. You get ganked by 3 Hercules with recently killed status. You kill 2, third one gets you since your crew is at 93. You get to a fight with an experienced player in a Herc and he can out-DPS you by gluing to you, or kill your crew. If he has mast mods, it's hard to deal with him due to a hard to hit hull and high maneuverability.

Btw, in the first fight we were in I didn't know La Requin would join. Rest were non-DLC ships :)

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3 hours ago, Diceman said:

All these uber elites claim they want PvP but since when is clubbing seals PvP??

Hmm, its easy to cry if you never tried to find PvP. Othwise you would know that captial regions are the most reliable way to find a fight. And how do I know if Im clubbing seals if I dont see the name of my enemy in OW?

3 hours ago, Diceman said:

And when a revenge fleet does develop, most often the uber elites run and then if they’re caught and sunk... NOW gank fleets are a problem??? And we need changes to the game that allow easier escapes??? WTF??

Spoken like a true ganker.

3 hours ago, Diceman said:

The DLC ships are moderately good ships

xD

3 hours ago, Diceman said:

The calls for the nerf bat to DLC ships by senior players smacks of elites wanting to maintain their position of superiority over the unwashed masses in my honest opinion.

Yes, I heard some of them also joined Illuminati

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54 minutes ago, vazco said:

Yes, I hunt in a Trinco. I'm getting more and more frustrated with Hercs fighting me in my Trinc though.  Herc has a few advantages, being free is the main of them. I don't use it only because I don't want to, but I feel forced to do this more and more. That feels kind of like pay to win.

I'm the one who started two quite popular threads to nerf DLC ships. I don't know if you include me in your subjective "uber elite" class. I'm advocating for a nerf exactly to protect new players and introduce balance, not to "be able to use my old tactics and keep superiority".

It's quite obvious that DLC's will be bought by most dedicated players, and not newbs or saturday players you want to protect. Those ships also require a certain level of skill to use. In bad player hands a Herc will be simply demasted and sunk. In good player hands it can sink almost anything given time. Those ships actually increase skill gap.

I kind of have a feeling that you're talking from your perspective - maybe you're not as experienced and you like the advantage DLC ship gives you over some other players. It's however not protecting most of the new players.

I disagree with this on several points.

Please explain how it’s good to nerf a ship to protect the new player and introduce balance when in the very first paragraph you state that you (awesome hunter/PvPer) are having problems with Hercs and they shouldn’t be giving you (in your Trinc) that much of a fight... You back my entire argument with that statement. The Herc has made people you would normally thump in your Trinc more competitive... Therefore, you feel it should be nerfed. Maybe YOU liked the advantages you used to have and want them back... hmmm??

I would like to see the purchase numbers of the DLC ships. I think far more than the “dedicated” player would be willing to part with the small fee required for a ship that makes them a bit more competitive (backed by your first paragraph). I bought the Herc. I love that ship. I’m a casual scrub player. It’s a good tweener ship that player skills can be improved greatly by using it. It also reduces the timidity normally found in scrub owners of crafted/purchased ships (most likely their only one) who would be scared to lose all that gold and time spent earning  the crafted/purchased ship. If they lose the DLC ship... they aren’t ruined in game financially and thrown back into a cutter to begin a long grind again.

Hell ya I’m talking from my perspective... duh. Who else would it be? I am fine with my experience level. I enjoy this game immensely! The Herc just adds to it!! And providing the newer player with a ship that makes them more competitive and more than likely more eager to seek combat is NOT a bad thing... for anybody!!! The new player doesn’t want to be protected, they want to be competitive. Losing is ok but getting blown out match after match because your opponent has a exponential level of equipment over you... that causes people to quit. Why play if you’re never going to be competitive. 

More DLC!

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1 hour ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Hmm, its easy to cry if you never tried to find PvP. Othwise you would know that captial regions are the most reliable way to find a fight. And how do I know if Im clubbing seals if I dont see the name of my enemy in OW?

Spoken like a true ganker.

xD

Yes, I heard some of them also joined Illuminati

Weak... try harder...

You know nothing Jon Snow...

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I want:

The 'Minister of Alts' DLC for $59.99; gives me five alts at a considerable savings for not having to buy five individual Naval Action accounts! Does not hurt the balance of the game whatsoever! 

And,

The 'Prolific Shipbuilder' DLC for $19.99; This give me five ships (dura) for one build. Does not hurt the balance of the game whatsoever! Get's you back out there immediately after being sunk and you don't have to wait 24 hours to do it as you do for the Hercules and Xebec DLC! The downside is that these ships are capturable and you have to rebuild them after the fifth dura. : (

Combine both of these for just $69:99 with the new 'Gene Roddenberry Naval Action' DLC!

DLC's should be: paints, extra outposts, extra buildings, banners, the forger and maybe some others that I can't think of...but that's it.

 

Edited by Captiva
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1 hour ago, Captiva said:

I want:

The 'Minister of Alts' DLC for $59.99; gives me five alts at a considerable savings for not having to buy five individual Naval Action accounts! Does not hurt the balance of the game whatsoever! 

And,

The 'Prolific Shipbuilder' DLC for $19.99; This give me five ships (dura) for one build. Does not hurt the balance of the game whatsoever! Get's you back out there immediately after being sunk and you don't have to wait 24 hours to do it as you do for the Hercules and Xebec DLC! The downside is that these ships are capturable and you have to rebuild them after the fifth dura. : (

Combine both of these for just $69:99 with the new 'Gene Roddenberry Naval Action' DLC!

DLC's should be: paints, extra outposts, extra buildings, banners, the forger and maybe some others that I can't think of...but that's it.

 

Try and keep up. 

The DLC ships are released. You all had the opertuninty to review these shops for free and give feedback. Many of you did and reported how hard to sail and easy to sink they were.

Now released and some players are doing well in them and not so skilled players are doing better in them you all start whinning and stamping your feet.

You make me laugh though I feel a bit sorry for you all. Go outside....the sun's out.

Edited by Crow
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5 hours ago, Diceman said:

Please explain how it’s good to nerf a ship to protect the new player and introduce balance when in the very first paragraph you state that you (awesome hunter/PvPer) are having problems with Hercs and they shouldn’t be giving you (in your Trinc) that much of a fight... You back my entire argument with that statement. The Herc has made people you would normally thump in your Trinc more competitive... Therefore, you feel it should be nerfed. Maybe YOU liked the advantages you used to have and want them back... hmmm??

I feel like you're trolling. I'll take a bait though.

If currently in my Trinc I have issues with a Hercules gank, it's impossible for a new player to survive it. If me and all experienced active players will be forced to only sail DLC ships, then anyone without this ship will be at a disadvantage. Those are mostly new players, or casual players like you, who can't pay to buy an OP ship, like you did.

Your temporary feeling that you can finally troll or compete with experienced players will go away, being replaced by a feeling of getting wrecked every time by an experienced player in a tiny ship. You will have this experience:

6029abff16e0f119cb2a4b503e2bb2c1.png

20180712234606_1.jpg

20180711170527_1.jpg

 

 

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Ok guys im getting very annoyed with this crying about DLC ships. Yes they are abit OP but only in shallow waters as one using both mostly in deep waters i can tell you this:

-Requin its quite good for surprise attacks and mission jumping but i have serious issues chasing ships that run with a wind yet no ship can catch me against the wind And  she is great at rageboarding.

-Hercules is good if player knows how too play her

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1 minute ago, Lovec1990 said:

Hercules is good if player knows how too play her

That's recently my main issue :) We can arrange a fight - me in Hercules, you in any 5th rate. If you don't have issues with it yet, you'll start to have them. You can also fight Yorgii, Vile or Gregory. I had a pleasure of seeing how they handle this ship. I don't see a good counter apart from another Hercules.

La Requin has one thing which makes it a bit balanced - broken manual sailing model, which doesn't work like in real life. Only this fact makes him less maneuverable and thus weaker. It's an almost unsinkable troll ship, not a small, fast and maneuverable killer like Herc.

 

 

Which brings me back to an original thread - proposition on how to un-break La Requin. I propose La Requin should have a realistic model of sailing, allowing him to go through the wind on manual sails quicker than the square-rigged, like it's possible in real life. It would finally make it superior in maneuverability as well.

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