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Jean Ribault

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Frankly I'm very disappointed the direction this game has gone in the last month with P2W DLC.  The OW is no longer the strategic arena it had been because of this DLC.  And if imported ships are in any way integrated into port battles, then the new meta RVR will be a big disappointment too.  And no one could ever convince me that any of this can be balanced now, and personally it appears there will be no attempt to do so, since the DLC sales would reduce or stop.

I never thought I'd see this kind of DLC in NA, although such things as paints and skins and flags would certainly be welcome and cool DLC.

 

My Suggestion is to either:

1. Eliminate P2W OP ships as DLC.

or

2. Just commit to this P2W completely.

 

How to Implement #1

#1 is obvious and simple, as stated above.

 

How to Implement #2

Just go all out P2W and be done with it.  Commit, instead of being half-ass about it.  Here are the steps, and they might not be popular but give it at least consideration:

1. Wipe all ships.  Leave people's other assets alone.

2. Eliminate all ship upgrades and knowledge slots.

3. Allow all ships in PB's that qualify by BR.

4. Make 2 ships per class available in the Admiralty, plus all traders.  Balance those ships.  This way newbs, casuals, and traders can still play their game not needing DLC.

5. All other ships available as DLC.  Make them OP in any way.

 

Just my take on this P2W heading.  If one or the other were committed to, this would bring back at least my happiness with this game.  I don't like the half-ass way this has been introduced.

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4 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

As I said above, I don't like it, at least half-ass.  Full P2W or stop doing it.  (sigh)

I'm letting my voice be heard. as you say, Full stop to P2W anything

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Its a double edged sword for me. The Requin is my favorite ship in the game and if it wasnt added as DLC it may not have been added at all. 

But whichever side stacks the most requins in a shallow pb will win. 

Plus the requin is shockingly strong in a deep water pb as a back capping ship. It can easily kill the usual 5th rates that are out defending the far cap zones.

It should honestly be a 5th rate like the hercules was made to be.

 

On topic though: I hope we step away from paywalled content other then cosmetics.

Edited by Flinch

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It's a matter of choice, not of what's "right" or "wrong". And it's also quite simple.

If you want further game content to be developed, new money shall come in

if you want new money coming in, DLC shall sell well

if you want DLC to sell well, they shall give actual advantage to the purchaser

so, just choose:

1) no "advantage" DLCs means (close to) no further new game content development, but just the (usual) tweaks here and there

2) else, we just have to learn to live with DLCs that give advantages

Besides the solution is even simpler: make le requin and hercules purchasable with (a fair amount) of PVP marks (or make DLC contents purchasable in game with victory marks) and that's it. Pay to win gets reduced.

PS: I did not buy premium ships DLCs (i do not like small ships), but just the building and ship space one

Edited by victor

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yeah, no dlc ships should be allowed in pb's, agree.

but that won't fix herc and requins being the only two kings of Shallow-OW-PvP. I am not sure what the plans there are, as the hercules for one historically was one of its class. But IMHO, for the sake of gameplay, it should get either nerfed or just "banned" from shallow water (as any other 5th rate?!) because clearly there is no other shallow vessel match for it.

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I don't quite agree. Why does it have to be such a radical proposition when a good mixture can be beneficial to a broader range of players?

Since the release of the DLCs player numbers have finally been going up again. Not an enormous leap, admittedly, but the average number of people online on a Saturday night climbed from 400 - 500 to 500 - 600 again:

https://steamcharts.com/app/311310

I can only surmise that a certain number of people welcome these DLCs.

Before the DLCs the shallow water patrol zone around Shroud Cay was dominated mostly by clans in their Rattlesnake Heavy. For the average casual player this was a ship that was unpractical to muster because you need to craft it and have a port to stock it to replace losses, etc. Shop ships were not an option anymore because some clever businessmen made sure they went at unreasonable prices. If you were a casual you were left with nothing. Call it an intrusion of RVR into PVP patrol because if you are in a clan that does RVR you have the advantage of resources over a single player.

The DLCs balanced that and pose a nice option for non-RVR players to participate in the PVP patrol. I can get my 10 PVP marks by using my two Hercules even if you just sail them into the zone to sink them, allowing me to buy larger ships if I wish so. I can sink those larger ships bought with my PVP marks in a non-shallow patrol zone, get more marks, etc. all without having to craft or amass resources. That makes more people participate in these events and therefore creates more PVP and pushes back the dominance of RVR clans in patrol zones.

So far these DLCs have only created greater inclusion.

8 hours ago, Jean Ribault said:

1. Wipe all ships.  Leave people's other assets alone.

2. Eliminate all ship upgrades and knowledge slots.

3. Allow all ships in PB's that qualify by BR.

4. Make 2 ships per class available in the Admiralty, plus all traders.  Balance those ships.  This way newbs, casuals, and traders can still play their game not needing DLC.

5. All other ships available as DLC.  Make them OP in any way.

That sounds like you just want to smash the entire game instead of working on how to balance it out.

Edited by Jean de la Rochelle
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49 minutes ago, Jean de la Rochelle said:

I don't quite agree. Why does it have to be such a radical proposition when a good mixture can be beneficial to a broader range of players?

Since the release of the DLCs player numbers have finally been going up again. Not an enormous leap, admittedly, but the average number of people online on a Saturday night climbed from 400 - 500 to 500 - 600 again: 

 

Two words

Summer sale.

 

 I don't think DLC are bad, but to attribute them to the increase in server pop i think is mistaken.  I've noticed though quite a few newer players over the last couple of weeks which is ofc a good thing.

Edited by Dibbler
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Add the true DLC, paints, flags, name change. Remove this blasphemous ship DLC or turn it into a blueprint item so it's not P2W.

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5 hours ago, victor said:

It's a matter of choice, not of what's "right" or "wrong". And it's also quite simple.

If you want further game content to be developed, new money shall come in

if you want new money coming in, DLC shall sell well

if you want DLC to sell well, they shall give actual advantage to the purchaser

so, just choose:

1) no "advantage" DLCs means (close to) no further new game content development, but just the (usual) tweaks here and there

2) else, we just have to learn to live with DLCs that give advantages

Besides the solution is even simpler: make le requin and hercules purchasable with (a fair amount) of PVP marks (or make DLC contents purchasable in game with victory marks) and that's it. Pay to win gets reduced.

PS: I did not buy premium ships DLCs (i do not like small ships), but just the building and ship space one

Millions or whatever crazy quantity of games that simply have a base price but no dlc have done very well, thank you.

Extremely large quantities of dlc have been sold by bringing content that is not p2w.

New content has been added to games over the years, sometimes years after the game came out, thanks to, well sales of the base game and/or content dlc.

Your argument is invalid.

Also, choices can very much be right or wrong.

Edited by Captain Jean-Luc Picard
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4 hours ago, Jean de la Rochelle said:

...

That sounds like you just want to smash the entire game instead of working on how to balance it out.

Read the entire post.  First paragraph particularly.

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5 hours ago, Liq said:

yeah, no dlc ships should be allowed in pb's, agree.

but that won't fix herc and requins being the only two kings of Shallow-OW-PvP. I am not sure what the plans there are, as the hercules for one historically was one of its class. But IMHO, for the sake of gameplay, it should get either nerfed or just "banned" from shallow water (as any other 5th rate?!) because clearly there is no other shallow vessel match for it.

I think the Herc is fine where it's at as we have taken them down pretty easly with non DLC ships in fights. You just have to fight smart, get them to burn repairs and than focus fire on them and they actually go down pretty fast.  Now the Requien on the other hand can just turn and run if you start to hurt it unless you get them sales down.  It really needs to be a 5th rate just like the Herc and I think it will end up balance it self out that way.  Give some love to the Light frigates and below to balance things out.  I would also double the cool down, having them with the same cool down as the Yatch is to low.  I say 36 hours for the Herc and 48 for the Requin or 48 for both.  That way folks won't just throw them away daily, they have to actualy stretch the ship out a day or two.

1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

Add the true DLC, paints, flags, name change. Remove this blasphemous ship DLC or turn it into a blueprint item so it's not P2W.

I'm defently for return of paints.  I would pay a few bucks for a chest of paints, but they need to be added back into game too (epic events and PB rewards maybe).  I would also pay for the BP of ships like the LVG Refit (we need an Indenman refit too).  Cause I want to make the ship when and where I want to not blow PvP points on them.

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13 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I think the Herc is fine where it's at as we have taken them down pretty easly with non DLC ships in fights. You just have to fight smart, get them to burn repairs and than focus fire on them and they actually go down pretty fast.  Now the Requien on the other hand can just turn and run if you start to hurt it unless you get them sales down.  It really needs to be a 5th rate just like the Herc and I think it will end up balance it self out that way.  Give some love to the Light frigates and below to balance things out.  I would also double the cool down, having them with the same cool down as the Yatch is to low.  I say 36 hours for the Herc and 48 for the Requin or 48 for both.  That way folks won't just throw them away daily, they have to actualy stretch the ship out a day or two.

 

We are planning to buff 6th rates to give more alternatives to players (this is long overdue and was planned loooong time ago). It was promised to be delivered last week but got delayed due the fact that we want to finish the economy and upgrade rebalance asap. We tied the cool downs to crafting time.

We would like to remind everyone one thing. A lot of players will still chose imported ships for one and only reason - you don't need to craft them you can have them the way you want right away. If imported Diana frigate has same stats as Essex (exact same stats) - people will choose Diana just because its convenient.

Premium ships (imported ships) is an experiment and we need to run it for longer to understand long term consequences before either abandoning the idea for new imported vessels OR adding new imported ships to the existing line up.

And here comes the question to everyone. Some say here that port battles are full of those ships. 
Would you prefer active shallow port battles full of imported ships, which are convenient,  fun and maybe give some advantage in crafting to empty port battles?

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Port Battles are not empty because of ships, they are empty because of:

1. Multiflips

2. Nightflips (timers are too expensive)

3. Low online

4. Useless ports (players don't want to defend useless ports, that's a pretty stupid reason, but I understand it. For me it's decent PvP)

Edited by Banished Privateer
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No imported DLC ships in PBs ever please.  

This was the salina point PB yesterday.  Pirates did not show because it was going to be an all requin fest.  And it pretty much was.

G1VzoUk.jpg

Because this is what happened last time they tried Salina Point

Untitled.jpg.1e42d0a715c5e1cb9994405ff16

 

Simply put there is no way to balance DLC ships vs non-DLC ships in port battles.  It's easier to just restrict PBs to crafted ships only.  Folks with the requins will just have to settle for being OP on the OW.  

In my opinion the DLC ships have had the desired effect of improving OW PVP.  The shallows are a hot bed of activity now.  

RVR is dead because only a handful of ports on the map pay for themselves and the reward for winning a PB is you get to pay for it.  The system is inherently flawed and discourages continued RVR for anyone but the most dedicated.

Edited by Christendom
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54 minutes ago, admin said:

We are planning to buff 6th rates to give more alternatives to players (this is long overdue and was planned loooong time ago). It was promised to be delivered last week but got delayed due the fact that we want to finish the economy and upgrade rebalance asap. We tied the cool downs to crafting time.

We would like to remind everyone one thing. A lot of players will still chose imported ships for one and only reason - you don't need to craft them you can have them the way you want right away. If imported Diana frigate has same stats as Essex (exact same stats) - people will choose Diana just because its convenient.

Premium ships (imported ships) is an experiment and we need to run it for longer to understand long term consequences before either abandoning the idea for new imported vessels OR adding new imported ships to the existing line up.

And here comes the question to everyone. Some say here that port battles are full of those ships. 
Would you prefer active shallow port battles full of imported ships, which are convenient,  fun and maybe give some advantage in crafting to empty port battles?

My answer. As long as there is a FAIR balance between imported and not-imported ships Im ok with them taking part in PBs.

 

Dont abandon the idea of imported ships, we are only asking for not pay to win ships. And that comes with good and proper balance.

Many people bought the DLCs to support the game´s development, and thats good for everyone.

Edited by Intrepido

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28 minutes ago, admin said:

We are planning to buff 6th rates to give more alternatives to players (this is long overdue and was planned loooong time ago). It was promised to be delivered last week but got delayed due the fact that we want to finish the economy and upgrade rebalance asap. We tied the cool downs to crafting time.

We would like to remind everyone one thing. A lot of players will still chose imported ships for one and only reason - you don't need to craft them you can have them the way you want right away. If imported Diana frigate has same stats as Essex (exact same stats) - people will choose Diana just because its convenient.

Premium ships (imported ships) is an experiment and we need to run it for longer to understand long term consequences before either abandoning the idea for new imported vessels OR adding new imported ships to the existing line up.

And here comes the question to everyone. Some say here that port battles are full of those ships. 
Would you prefer active shallow port battles full of imported ships, which are convenient,  fun and maybe give some advantage in crafting to empty port battles?

The problem is the 6th rates aren't balance yet, so you should of made them both 5th rates and keep them out of PB's until they are properly balanced.  Though I don't see an issue with them in DEEP water, but I do think the BR needs to be bumped up into the range of the other light frigates of close to the same guns and HP range.  120 BR maybe for both ships?  This will make them tie up more BR than say if some one brings a Prince for circle control and Mortar brig protection/hunting.

I know ya'll tied the cool downs to crafting, but really it's a bit to low, 36 could be a good testing ground as it's not exaclty one day or two.  

Actually if two ships had the same stats I would prob not buy the DLC cause I would want the one I make cause I like crafting my own ships.  So if I have the choise of  a Diana or Essex I would prob pick the Essex I can craft and trade between my alts and clan mates.  What the point of a DLC ship if I can't give it off to some one else ones I"m done with that build or grind out for the ship. I'm always handing ships off to clan mates after I test builds out, you can't do that with DLC.  Now I might still buy the DLC for certain chars I don't want to deal with crafting so all I have to do is supply the cannons and repairs.

I actually like the Imported Ships concept and think it's a good way to bring more money to the game for more models and content to be added.   The problem is we need to keep ti balance.  You used a prefect example above, having ships with exact same stats in game that can be crafted as the ones that you can buy with DLC.  There should always be a means in game to get the same ship.  The problem is you stat they will be rare drops, but how rare will they be?  How about making the BP's very rare drops that some folks will be able to craft (maybe very very very rare).   That way there is always a way to get the same content in game without paying.  Unlike your Diana/Essex example there is no other ships exactly like the Herc and Requin in game you can just craft.

PB solution is just to make them both 5th rates, allow them in Shallow OW battles and boot there BR up so they cost more to bring to deep water PB's and if a ROE is effect (did like the shallow ROE) than they tie up more BR, 120 is a good start BR to play with.  It can than be raised or lower.  I think all Prem/imported ships while might have same stats as others like them should always have a bigger BR for it's class since they are just a click to get a new one.  Also not ever one will buy DLC, some folks just want to play the game the way they bought it so it should be a meta to have special DLC ships just for PB"s.

As for crafting in clan own ports.  I have gotten one purple ship in 30+ ships crefted since that patch came out.  That is the same odds i gotten in a non-captured port with a crafter with all crafting mods (to lower Labor cost).  Clan own prots really don't seem to give an advantage to crafting or it's so small it's pointless to say that is a bonus.  Why not add the AI perks to the players one for only clan owned ports that would give an edge for crafting ships out of safe zones.  Some of them are crap bonus but some are nice too. I honestly think safe zones crafting should only give you BLUE ships with chance of perks only, no exceptional ships at all.  This will force more crafting out of the safe zones.

13 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Port Battles are not empty because of ships, they are empty because of:

1. Multiflips

2. Nightflips (timers are too expensive)

3. Low online

After you hit 1 million your basiclly paying 50% tax on the port so it's not even really helping you pay off your other none profit ports.   NOt every clan and player has deep pockets so this would hurt a small clan that might own a few ports in a pocket of the map but want to keep a timer on the important ones that might have the clan warehouse or something in it.

Ports need a way to hand off in nation to other clans, this is the number one way we lost most of our ports in the last few months is bad game mechanics.

NO such thing as night flips if you don't have timers on a port.  I think to many folks own way to many ports they shouldn't own if they can't show up to defend at all hours or put timers on them.  Though a lot of ports are safe cause of retarded timers no one wants to stay up too also.

One of the biggest issue is there is no reason to go attack another nations/clans ports.  Just send an alt into that port to get stuff.  Speaking of which when you going to open up Harbor Island I need to get some copper, but I'm not going to go across the map to Estros (which is open to all).   Ya'll use to do good about having it open on weekends and such.

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59 minutes ago, admin said:

We are planning to buff 6th rates to give more alternatives to players (this is long overdue and was planned loooong time ago). It was promised to be delivered last week but got delayed due the fact that we want to finish the economy and upgrade rebalance asap. We tied the cool downs to crafting time.

We would like to remind everyone one thing. A lot of players will still chose imported ships for one and only reason - you don't need to craft them you can have them the way you want right away. If imported Diana frigate has same stats as Essex (exact same stats) - people will choose Diana just because its convenient.

Premium ships (imported ships) is an experiment and we need to run it for longer to understand long term consequences before either abandoning the idea for new imported vessels OR adding new imported ships to the existing line up.

And here comes the question to everyone. Some say here that port battles are full of those ships. 
Would you prefer active shallow port battles full of imported ships, which are convenient,  fun and maybe give some advantage in crafting to empty port battles?

Sounds good.

I want to add that yes, a Premium DLC ship SHOULD have the "don't have to craft them" advantage. Being able to just redeem it and not worry about crafting is a perk of the ship, and a bonus to those players who want to keep away from crafting. I fully support that. I also support a DLC ship being a unique ship with unique traits that we may not see in other ships, like the Requin.

What I don't support is that the DLC ships are just incredibly broken when it comes to other ships similar to it's weight of class, so I am glad you are addressing it soon. It is important to allow Crafted ships the ability to fight toe-to-toe with DLC ships and make them balanced.

43 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Port Battles are not empty because of ships, they are empty because of:

1. Multiflips

2. Nightflips (timers are too expensive)

3. Low online

4. Useless ports (players don't want to defend useless ports, that's a pretty stupid reason, but I understand it. For me it's decent PvP)

I agree, but  lets not kid ourselves that they are also empty when a DLC ship is also a "win-button" like the Requin.

-- We used to have "Whoever brings more Wasa's wins."

-- then we had "Whoever brings more hercs wins."

-- and now we have "Whoever brings more Requins wins."

it's not a healthy cycle. But yes, I agree that low online and Useless ports are the 2 biggest factors of you 4 that cause RvR decline.

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