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Jean de la Rochelle

How do I set up an alt account?

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How do I set up an alt account and use both at the same time? Do I need a second computer? Can I have both versions of NA open with the same user account? What is the best way to go about?

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5 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Because all shipos must be pristine and moduled perfectly. *insert coin to play*

  

Sounds good to me

if there were dlcs for every ship (1 per day) i'd probably get a few :)

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1188hrs, never used or even considered an alt. Always thought it was a joke, but some people actually spend upwards of 400 dollars to hoard resources and play a very watered down game. I don't get it.

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1 hour ago, Liq said:

I believe @jodgi would agree here.

He would, @Liq.

I'm completely shameless in skipping and fast-tracking ANYTHING that relates to pve stuff. I didn't become like this because of many hours logged, I came here like that. It's not because the pve content is weak, bad, lacking or whatever, to me the best and most rich PVE content in the world would still look like a turd.

People can avoid PvP all day 'erry day, but the best PvP gear is locked behind a pve grindwall. Thanks to the ridiculous nature of pve content I found a way to get it all without much hands on effort. Some would say I should thank pve content for granting me indirect access... I dunno, should I thank my dad when he stops beating me with the jumper cables?

I won't violate any express or unwritten rules, that's how my mom brought me up, but apart from that, and especially towards pve content, I'm chaotic neutral... almost evil... proudly.

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18 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

but some people actually spend upwards of 400 dollars to hoard resources and play a very watered down game. I don't get it.

I wish I could pay money to water down pve content to the point it's so diluted it practically doesn't exist. We simply like different things.

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2 hours ago, jodgi said:

I wish I could pay money to water down pve content to the point it's so diluted it practically doesn't exist. We simply like different things.

When massive fleets refuse to fight, when clans do not make use of the clanwars updated mechanics, when squadrons do mexican standoffs for an hour, when everything is bypassed through loopholes so cargo is not afloat, when even the patrol zones are the snowball effect most of the days , there's only pve left.

Pve is easy and safe.

 

4 hours ago, Liq said:

Sounds good to me

if there were dlcs for every ship (1 per day) i'd probably get a few :)

So far so good. 

We can cut two ways. Remove the pve drops ( oh yes! ) or open everything in the admiralty. Simple and effective.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

When massive fleets refuse to fight, when clans do not make use of the clanwars updated mechanics, when squadrons do mexican standoffs for an hour, when everything is bypassed through loopholes so cargo is not afloat, when even the patrol zones are the snowball effect most of the days , there's only pve left.

Pve is easy and safe.

 

So far so good. 

We can cut two ways. Remove the pve drops ( oh yes! ) or open everything in the admiralty. Simple and effective.

 

 

Or third option. Bring back post battle drop screen so we can reward PVP and PBs like we do PVE so people arent forced to PVE

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11 hours ago, Norfolk nChance said:

A Player with a PvP, a Crafter and a resources Farmer should be a typical style, but just in my opinion.

And herein lies the problem.  And why I am interested in the actual percentage of alts in the game vs single-account players.  To be clear I am NOT inherently opposed to them and I do NOT favor attempting to ban them.

The problem arises in the structure of the economy, which at present has an insufficient number of different types of necessary and/or desirable player production buildings.

What an alt enables, (and now the Admiralty Connections DLC as well) is the ability to sell into the player economy without having to buy from it.  Or at least not buy at any economically meaningful level.  There are a number of additional problems which exacerbate the issue but the building type count is the core of the problem.

At some point this breaks the contract markets, and possibly the ship markets with it.  The flow of value through a cluster of commodity transaction involving alts is completely asymmetric.

The player economy was what initially held my interest in the game.  And there was a point as a solo-account player I thought I could compete with the asymmetric transactions.

I've changed my mind.

Edited by Marcus Corvus
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@Marcus Corvus

Could you expand on your point with a small example please? I’ve being away from the game and may have missed something. This part below confused me...

“At some point this breaks the contract markets, and possibly the ship markets with it.  The flow of value through a cluster of commodity transaction involving alts is completely asymmetric.”

 

NA-OW Economy...

Naval Action is NOT a player driven economy [PDE]. They don’t actually work at some point an NPC overlay is needed. Even in real life a FREE MARKET economy is the same it cannot work and needs a Government overlay to Stimulate demand, restrict supply etc.

In MMOs EvE Online [EvE] comes close to a [PDE] but still needs CCPs invention regularly. NA-OW is at the moment very small and I expect remains so until full launch. When the new currency Patch is implemented I believe you’ll see a marked improvement in all trade volumes and be able to access cross currency activity.

 

ALT Farmers...

An ALT Resource Farmer is there to help gather products sooner than using a solo MPC who can now make his ship sooner. Are you saying the ALT continues unabated producing the commodity and dumps the excess on the open market? With many ALT farmers this could crush the price in a specific area is what you are saying?

 

 

ALT Trading...

I’ll wait for your reply, but I don’t believe they the ALTs have this type of impact but maybe wrong. This is an example how we [ELITE] used ALTs from [PvP Caribbean] (or Global). The Pirates took the PORT Cartagena then closed the PORT to the general public. Shock, horror no access to Cartagena Tar to build the refit.

http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/23099-cartagena-is-hereby-closed-to-the-general-public/

My response is half way down. I instructed [ELAN] Pirate ALT run by @flipper687 to sail into the PORT and take out all the Cartagena Tar. Then to re-bid each server cycle or until his bid was filled. @mixedgril731 with the second Pirate ALT would collect the Tar and give flip funds if needed.

We ramped the price up and, in the end, sold most back into the market making a turn. Those who needed the refit paid the PORTs prices plus our commission on top. The whole thing didn't last a server cycle but the C-Tar price continued north for sometime after...

Is this Bad ALT behavior...?

 

 

Norfolk

 

Edited by Norfolk nChance

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1 hour ago, Norfolk nChance said:

@Marcus Corvus

Could you expand on your point with a small example please? I’ve being away from the game and may have missed something. This part below confused me...

“At some point this breaks the contract markets, and possibly the ship markets with it.  The flow of value through a cluster of commodity transaction involving alts is completely asymmetric.”

A player with an alt (and now the Admiralty Connection DLC) currently has little or no need to buy at contract when they are capable of producing all core craft materials through buildings.  I recently purchased the DLC which doubles the number of building I can control.  I now have the ability to to produce everything I need for basic shipbuilding at less cost than a player without the DLC or an alt.  So why buy someone's contract in the markets?

But I can still sell and pull profits out of a market.  Which is what I mean by asymmetric.

As the number of players with alts and the DLC increases the number of active buyers decreases.  At some point the contract markets will cease to function.  No buyers and the price falls and stays there.  This wouldn't happen if the building count were a lot higher, but what do we have now, 15 total, of which several are not particularly useful and two (gold & silver) sound like they are going away?

Doesn't take a whole lot of math to see this coming.

 

1 hour ago, Norfolk nChance said:

NA-OW Economy...

Naval Action is NOT a player driven economy [PDE]. They don’t actually work at some point an NPC overlay is needed. Even in real life a FREE MARKET economy is the same it cannot work and needs a Government overlay to Stimulate demand, restrict supply etc.

In MMOs EvE Online [EvE] comes close to a [PDE] but still needs CCPs invention regularly. NA-OW is at the moment very small and I expect remains so until full launch. When the new currency Patch is implemented I believe you’ll see a marked improvement in all trade volumes and be able to access cross currency activity.

I am not expecting a fully autonomous process.  But what I am describing above is unsustainable.  If the DLC sales succeed the contract economy will fail.  The structural problem was already present with the alts, but introducing the DLC just made things a good deal worse.  There needs to be far more necessary and/or desireable buildings than at present.  And the currency patch will have zero effect on this.

 

1 hour ago, Norfolk nChance said:

ALT Farmers...

An ALT Resource Farmer is there to help gather products sooner than using a solo MPC who can now make his ship sooner. Are you saying the ALT continues unabated producing the commodity and dumps the excess on the open market? With many ALT farmers this could crush the price in a specific area is what you are saying?

They don't need to dump the excess.  Just not buy anything.  Too many sellers.  Not enough buyers.  No need to when most everything can be produced in house.

 

1 hour ago, Norfolk nChance said:

 

ALT Trading...

I’ll wait for your reply, but I don’t believe they the ALTs have this type of impact but maybe wrong. This is an example how we [ELITE] used ALTs from [PvP Caribbean] (or Global). The Pirates took the PORT Cartagena then closed the PORT to the general public. Shock, horror no access to Cartagena Tar to build the refit.

http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/23099-cartagena-is-hereby-closed-to-the-general-public/

My response is half way down. I instructed [ELAN] Pirate ALT run by @flipper687 to sail into the PORT and take out all the Cartagena Tar. Then to re-bid each server cycle or until his bid was filled. @mixedgril731 with the second Pirate ALT would collect the Tar and give flip funds if needed.

We ramped the price up and, in the end, sold most back into the market making a turn. Those who needed the refit paid the PORTs prices plus our commission on top. The whole thing didn't last a server cycle but the C-Tar price continued north for sometime after...

Is this Bad ALT behavior...?

 

 

Norfolk

 

The answer to your final question is whether a player without an alt is capable of competing in a market where this sort of thing is going on.

I've tried.

I've watched players that I'm reasonably certain were alts manipulate both ends of a commodity in the Charleston market.

I'm done.

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I have 2 alts I've ground all three of my charachters to level 50 crafters and rear admirals way back when you didn't get any help to do it (No instant M&C for doing a tutorial). Yes I've had a benefit of having extra warehouse space, outpost slots and buildings, but then equally I've paid the moeny and put the effort in on each account (They all have 1000's of hours in the game).

What is so wrong with that?

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@Marcus Corvus

 

Thank you for the detailed reply. Great response by the way.

 

DLC Buildings...

This DLC is a new addition for me and is a concern. I’d say it stops or reduces ALT usage for Solo Players but not Clans. Clan’s would be able to replenish First Rate Fleets at record speeds which would be an issue. The Clan Farming ALTs would be able to stockpile the harder or second stage builds of something like large Carriages etc. fairly easily now.

The Clan purchases only rare or inaccessible resources and are a fraction of the total build cost. Even so the game must counter the easy way to mass production.  Otherwise like you said the market falls apart and we all sail my L’O like Sunday drivers.

This is not an ALT problem as the ALT is a PC in all intense and purposes. It has exactly the same rights and functions as the MPC. However, with the DLC and Clan ALTs this could cause problems like you state and lead to Dev’s having to continually interfere in the economy...

Game playability and Balance...

I’m guessing here, but I imagine @admin the genius that he is must see this dilemma? He for one knows the resource or production usages by the entire player base. The effect it (DLC & ALT) would have...

“And the currency patch will have zero effect on this.”

On its own I agree the Patch won’t until currency supply is restricted.  We know already Silver8 [S8] and Gold Double Escudo [GDE] will be freely convertible between each other (but I doubt at a fixed rate). However, you can only obtain them from a “Government” as a reward, Port Battles or maybe purchased?

Pieces of Eight [Po8] and the REAL [R] will be introduced also, but these currencies I’m guessing are the main in shop currencies used. Catholic leaning PORT/Region (Cartagena) you would use [R] Protestant (K/PR) then [Po8].  The problem will come when either the Ship Note/Permit needed will be priced fixed in [S8] or [GDE].

Here the issue of Ship Permits would be in [S8] for a Victory but [GDE] for a Santi. You need enough of that currency at the right price to buy that Permit. OR go to the Admiralty STORE and use real cash. This is the control mechanic.

 

Currency Borders...

Now rare resources that spawn in just a few places like Live Oak or whatever you’d need the local currency to purchase making it exceedingly difficult. Maybe this would encourage an ALT purchase for the same local Nation to setup and build a farm. This would need a lot more local currency to start with though...

This just a guess but I can see how the NPC overlay now can soften demand or stimulate supply. Whether you have 15x Buildings in Charleston full of Live Oak Logs you’ll need “x” amount of [Po8] to harvest them. This may prove difficult for the Spanish week in week out on...

 

This seems a complicated system but I can see why the Dev’s introduced two main currencies and two minor ones. It gives market Control. The effect from increased buildings or ALTs can be now re-balanced devaluing one rate against another instead of tweaking game mechanics...

 

Let’s see anyway

 

Norfolk

 

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20 hours ago, Liq said:

Paid sandboxie version lets you run more than 2 Accounts at a time :)

but it wont be healthy for your cpu / gpu / ram. Lol

KJkiTvo_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&f

Can you do that?

 

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21 minutes ago, qw569 said:

Can you do that?

 

Wow imagine using that to gank or get an advantage in regular combat. Why not just make this a feature with fleets if we're all so eager to play this way?

Edited by Slim McSauce

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22 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Wow imagine using that to gank or get an advantage in regular combat. Why not just make this a feature with fleets if we're all so eager to play this way?

Fleet have only one advantage it is unlimited chain shoots.

Imagine what can do 3 alts with fleets.

btw The author of video is @Ленин

Edited by qw569

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On 7/3/2018 at 11:48 PM, Norfolk nChance said:

@Marcus Corvus

DLC Buildings...

This DLC is a new addition for me and is a concern. I’d say it stops or reduces ALT usage for Solo Players but not Clans. Clan’s would be able to replenish First Rate Fleets at record speeds which would be an issue. The Clan Farming ALTs would be able to stockpile the harder or second stage builds of something like large Carriages etc. fairly easily now.

@Norfolk nChance

Had to think about this a bit.  Probably depends on the solo player.  Somebody like me will buy the DLC  -- who doesn't care for the extra time that the 2nd account requires, or is not interested in running an additional application that allows parallel Steam accounts to run.  Which I did and is how I came to my conclusions about the effects of the building counts.  Remove those constraints and using an alt provides additional advantages not available to the DLC user.

Having said that because it is way easier, use of the DLC is likely to expand way faster than purchase of additional accounts.  Hence my rather dire conclusions on the matter.

 

Quote

I’m guessing here, but I imagine @admin the genius that he is must see this dilemma? He for one knows the resource or production usages by the entire player base. The effect it (DLC & ALT) would have...

I would hope so but the economic thinking looks an awful lot like how many programmers write code.  Fiddle here, aggregate more on there, without a systematic approach to the whole.

The devs appear to be trying to run this primarily as a command economy, salted with player-generated content.  Which seems upside down.  Because I don't know how you keep track of all the moving parts this requires without a very large development staff.  Of course this is an inference as I have not found any articulation of their intentions.

I am hoping they sort it out.

Edited by Marcus Corvus
clarification
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