contact Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Hi, Any chance this will be available on Apple please ? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wind Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Windows laptop that can run NA is $500, it's cheaper this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christendom Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Wind said: Windows laptop that can run NA is $500, it's cheaper this way. I prefer laptops that aren’t plastic shitboxes that last longer than 2 years. I can afford better quality products. While at work I’ve logged into NA on the Mac a few times using boot camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jean-Luc Picard Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Banished Privateer said: Many users use Apple devices, not mentioning about Linux. Linux! Linux! Linux! Linux! Also OpenBSD please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaleMemes Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Christendom said: I prefer laptops that aren’t plastic shitboxes that last longer than 2 years. I can afford better quality products. While at work I’ve logged into NA on the Mac a few times using boot camp. My 300 dollar plastic shitbox is still going strong 6 years later, screen is now leaned up against the wall tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contact Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 Hi, Thanks guys. I do have a laptop (Windows). But thought would look better on the larger screen of an iMac 🖥 Will check my laptop. See if suitable. Regards to you all 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raf Van Boom Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 It should be easy for the to port, Unity 5 is available for OSX/Linux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 16 hours ago, contact said: Hi, Any chance this will be available on Apple please ? Thank you Unfortunately its not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Naval Action uses lots of custom code for visuals and porting the game to Mac just means we will have to write a new game. MAC allows to run windows as a second system (switching between them when you want) and you can play NA on mac if if you install windows on mac. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 22 hours ago, Wind said: Windows laptop that can run NA is $500, it's cheaper this way. Buget pcs/laptops are the biggest waste of money there is. They barely run games and for how long. 1000€ is the minimum to game for 5-6 years without any issues. Luckily it is not as bad as it used to be since performance increases per generation is not as much as it used to be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 18 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said: That's a joke for sure. CPU & RAM Performance is not changing much, but storage drives (SSDs, flash memories) and GPU computing power is increasing exponentially: you can have the best GPU in the world and the CPU will be your bottleneck. Multicore processors will not make it better because what most people do not understand is that you cannot simply spread a thread over multi cores. A great example is people complaining about Total war and multi threading or ksp and multi threading. Spreading the ai of 10000 soilders on a battlefield over multiple cores will not work or spreading physics on ksp also. GPU performance is less of an issue if you stick to 1080p. My 970 can still play most games on 1080 60 fps maxed out. If you buy a 1080 now and a ryzen, I am very sure you will find more games that will bottleneck 1 core of your extreme mega 8 core 16 thread "gaming cpu" that AMD likes to market than maxing out a 1080 on 1080p 1080 is extreme overkill for 1080p anyway. CPU limitations are slowing many games down atm in my oppinion. Currently I notice it in the endgame of stellaris. People complain its only 32bit but except for the ram limits 64 bit would not increase performance because its the clock rate and more importantly the clock cycles per second that matters. I was thinking of getting a 8086 because I need the clock rate but its just not enough performance over the 4770k for 350 euro or more. I will wait another generation I think and GPU wise I will only upgrade when I go 4k. As I said. You spend 1000 euro for a 1080p system you will run most games on 60 for a long time. What can you buy for 500 euro? A system that can barley do 1080p gaming. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christendom Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) And most budget laptops will have budget GPUs. Majority of them in the $500 range will have an outdated mobile GPU from the previous generation. Most will also have barebones storage and/or platter drives. Therefore a budget laptop is truly a waste of money that is antiquated the moment you click buy. Edited June 26, 2018 by Christendom 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Banished Privateer said: It's really dependent on the game design as how many threads or cores can be used and how GPU/CPU calculations and managed. Stellaris was developed on the old engine and not only it's 32bit limited to 4GB (big limitation for modding) but additionally, it works only on a single core (Devs claim it works at multi-core, but it's badly optimized). Welcome to 2017/18 AAA game and a big company like Paradox: Apple is already dropping 32-bit support for macOS or whatever system they choose. 64bit would increase ram usage & other parts too, but based on the application, it can boost performance from few % to even 30%. As always it depends on the design and best applications offer you choice 32/64bit. Short story long, CPU doesn't have to be the bottleneck of modern GPUs. Everything depends on how the games were designed. 64 bit would not solve the problem. The 4gb ram limit only causes a CTD when you you hit it but thats it. It also requires alot of mods to hit that limit. The main issue is the unit calculations being on 1 core. The game is multi threaded like most games. But unit calculations is done with 1 core. You cannot say its badly optimized when its probably running on an old engine since its 32. They would probably need to redesign the engine from scratch and even then it might not be that simple.... Again not badly optimized but a design limit of the engine. "Badly optimized" is a term I hear alot but when I ask people what they mean by it they cannot explain. Also, its not so simple to have 1000s of units interacting with each other and spreading the workload over multiple cores since its a single task. I have yet to see a game that has achieved that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contact Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 Appreciate all the replies. It appears I’m not the only one concerned with games on laptops. All I know is Ultimate General runs superb on iMac. As it comes from Steam. I had hoped Naval Action would appear on Apple too. I will consider adding Windows partion to my iMac. Best wishes all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, contact said: Appreciate all the replies. It appears I’m not the only one concerned with games on laptops. All I know is Ultimate General runs superb on iMac. It does indeed. NA uses a lot of custom code and shaders for visuals and to make it run seamlessly on MacOS will basically require complete rework of 50% of the game. Which we cannot afford at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 12 hours ago, Banished Privateer said: Then explain how many of the games I played reach 60-100% on all of my cores/threads? I'm talking about new games mostly, not older ones. Yes, I can. Why? Because they keep improving the performance in EU4, Stellaris, HoI4 and other games they released. As long as performance sucks and they can improve it further, then yes, it's badly optimized. When they reach the 100% full potential of the code/engine performance, then I cannot say it anymore. They do not improve the basic problem because it's a God damn engine limit... You don't seem to understand that... The performance issue is end game when there are thousands of ships. The bug fixes and performance fixes are from recent dlc/expansions and don't fix the main issue. As always you enjoy contradicting and make up arguments as you go along. Btw games that spread the work load evenly between cores will generally not have one demanding thread like loads of ai. This is why these issues are more common in strategy games. Show me a game that has hundreds or thousands of units and it's calculated over multiple cores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said: Game older and comparable to Stelaris: Star Ruler 2 makes good use of 8 threads, enabling pretty giant battles (red/blue dots are ships, the little lines zooming between them are projectiles). You got thousands of ships, RTS game, all cores/threads used more or less equally, large battles, what else do you want as example? Yeah. The unit movements in that are really complex... Omg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Farseer Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) Hachi has a point here. The problem with spreading complex issues like, for example AI behavioural scripts that adapt routing/wayfinding in a game level, over multiple threads is that whatever happens in one thread needs to be relayed to the other thread(s). This requires synchronisiation and locking of memory spaces, so that one thread does not disrupt calcultions of another, which results in interrupting of calculation because threads have to wait on each other, so to speak. So depending on the type of algorithm and the complexity of the problem you can even lose performance by trying to force multithreading. Also, the Unity Engine in particular can be a real bitch for running stuff on multiple threads. I know that from personal experience... Edited June 27, 2018 by Tom Farseer spelling, grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloothommel Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 1 hour ago, HachiRoku said: They do not improve the basic problem because it's a God damn engine limit... You don't seem to understand that... The performance issue is end game when there are thousands of ships. The bug fixes and performance fixes are from recent dlc/expansions and don't fix the main issue. As always you enjoy contradicting and make up arguments as you go along. Btw games that spread the work load evenly between cores will generally not have one demanding thread like loads of ai. This is why these issues are more common in strategy games. Show me a game that has hundreds or thousands of units and it's calculated over multiple cores. Ashes of Singularity is heavily multithreaded. 10+ threads easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Farseer Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 15 minutes ago, Kloothommel said: Ashes of Singularity is heavily multithreaded. 10+ threads easy. True. But it's engine (Nitrous, if memory serves) is specifically tailored to enable efficient multithreading. Unity 5 on the other hand isn't. For the depth of simulation Naval Action has, it runs quite well, tbh. A lot of Flight Sims (similar both in being somewhat niche and demanding on the CPU) run much worse. If I remember correctly, all 4 cores of my rather dated i5-45something were at roughly the same load. My guess is a relatively modern 4 core CPU with around 3 Ghz should run the game just fine. No need to spend fat cash on a high end Processor. Notebooks can quickly run into performance trouble, though. Mine will barely reach 15 FPS on minimal settings. Bottleneck here is the GPU on my end. So to get back to the topic of wether or not buying a cheap notebook to play it: Would not recommend. A 500-600 € Desktop-PC (German shop prices, self-built, no idea how that translates to other nations/markets) however should do you just fine and will also have enough Juice to run most modern games at 1080p with a decent framerate, albeit not always at max settings. For NA noone needs 60 fps, espiecally if your ping is above 100ms. Might not look as good, but it's hardly a fast paced shooter, anyways 😃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 35 minutes ago, Kloothommel said: Ashes of Singularity is heavily multithreaded. 10+ threads easy. You guys don't seem to have much clue about multi threading. I'll explain later in a longer post when I'm home.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 5 hours ago, Kloothommel said: Ashes of Singularity is heavily multithreaded. 10+ threads easy. Ok, now ill explain as simple and as short as I can. If you have a cpu intensive task like 5000 soldiers fighting each other on the battlefield you need to be able to calculate their movements fast and efficient! The problem with dividing the task between 2 cores is that those 2 cores need to share information/communicate. This process can make multi threading a single thread slower than 1 core even if the single core is almost being bottle necked. Read about mulicores if you don't believe me but games using 90% of 1 core and 10% of 7 more is not bad optimization, its a design choice because sharing cores could and most likely would end up being slower. People complain about bad multi core support but its not the devs fault they only have a quad core 2.5 ghz cpu. Gaming in general is better on higher clock rates. I hope you get it now :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ink Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Since the initial question has been answered, the topic is closed. 21 hours ago, HachiRoku said: You guys don't seem to have much clue about multi threading. I'll explain later in a longer post when I'm home.... Please continue in a different sub forum (e.g. Tavern) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts