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7 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

any port worth taking has a timer outside of our timezone.

Who said I was talking to you?  Your not the only ones that complain all the time and I Call BS cause I seen you guys on all hours of the day and night fighting with numbers. 

 If you wanted to you can get your guys on and flip a port in EU prime time, US prime time.....hell freaking any prime times.  Your guys prob are on more than just about any other nation or clans.  With your recent number increase you have even more folks to help you flip ports in those times.  Stop making excuses....oh and still waiting for those port timers to be put in prime time like you threaten one port to be put in.  We looked at the API files and none of them have every been put in US prime time other than San Mateo the first week it was captured back in April....if you wanted RvR you would put a port (no one said all them) in prime times of others that you can still fill....and not some crappy useless port either...you are no better than @Gregory Rainsborough when he had all his ports set to right after server down time, it wasn't cause they can defend them at that time, it was cause no one else was one or willing to until half the server decide to get up early one weekend and attack him.   Maybe it's just easier for folks to wake up early compared to stay up late.

Actually if you wanted RvR you would stop kiling folks in OW that try to grind hostility and jsut fight them in the PB since you want RvR so much, but that isn't the case.   Nah you just want the easy kills is all.  If ya'll where so good/elite you would actually prove it and take on other elite clans/nations instead of joining up with each other.

 

14 minutes ago, Christendom said:

They’re all allied up is why.  Then they piss off because the game is “dead”

But but RvR?  It can't be dead cause we won't fight each other....lol

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You know...

There are more opponents who aren't the USA, but that would be too difficult eh? Can't be fighting more powerful enemies now, that wouldn't look good.

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1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

You know...

There are more opponents who aren't the USA, but that would be too difficult eh? Can't be fighting more powerful enemies now, that wouldn't look good.

as I have already stated any port that is worth taking has a timer that's not in our timezone. otherwise we would own it. to take anything other than what we have just cost more money.

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1 hour ago, King of Crowns said:

as I have already stated any port that is worth taking has a timer that's not in our timezone. otherwise we would own it. to take anything other than what we have just cost more money.

You took Russian ports at kid island during EU prime time so don't give us that BS....

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5 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

You took Russian ports at kid island during EU prime time so don't give us that BS....

They had no timers on the port and when they put one on north inlet a eu clan took the port for us.

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3 hours ago, Aster said:

They had no timers on the port and when they put one on north inlet a eu clan took the port for us.

actually now that I think about your right...my bad sorry for the miss information could of swore part of that had timers.  Wasn't it the pirates or something that flipped it and than ya'll took it from them?  Man that was ages ago and sleep a bit since than.  Still ya'll have had large numbers during others prime times too, it's not like ya'll can't fight with the EU french either to get things down.

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Safe zone and vet players

15 ships (currently in their safe zone) chased 3 enemy ships (inside safe zone) and they were gaining fast. As soon the 3 ships left the zone circle 15 ships dropped sails and they kept watching the 3 ships disappearing into the sunset.

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9 hours ago, King of Crowns said:

as I have already stated any port that is worth taking has a timer that's not in our timezone. otherwise we would own it. to take anything other than what we have just cost more money.

Could always grind for weekend port battles. 

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3 hours ago, z4ys said:

Safe zone and vet players

15 ships (currently in their safe zone) chased 3 enemy ships (inside safe zone) and they were gaining fast. As soon the 3 ships left the zone circle 15 ships dropped sails and they kept watching the 3 ships disappearing into the sunset.

Heh, we've all played that game. If they were French vets they probably had 12 guys just over the horizon and the 3 were just bait.  Why does it matter? 

The problem is that people who are looking for consensual PvP have unevenly distributed themselves into nations and allied themselves.  Now they're fighting over players that only infrequently want PvP or are just newbs tooling around the safe zones trying to mission up.  This is unsustainable.

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7 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Heh, we've all played that game. If they were French vets they probably had 12 guys just over the horizon and the 3 were just bait.  Why does it matter? 

 

And thats the problem. We all say we want meaningful pvp and fights but as soon chances go down its not meaningful anymore. We dont fight because of fights, we fight because of winning. And there is no solution other than what we  have now. Allow ganking.

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On 6/19/2018 at 3:35 AM, Lars Kjaer said:

...Game is dying because of the safezones, not despite of them.. 

 

On 6/19/2018 at 4:14 AM, Christendom said:

Game is dying because there is nothing to do but gank newer and pve oriented players.  Not because of the safe zones...

 

12 hours ago, King of Crowns said:

safe zones have killed this game. period...

 

12 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

The issue is not the safe zones.

So which one is it?

I have no idea about the reinforcement zones being good or bad, mainly because I don't understand the attraction with loss. 

23 hours ago, seanjo said:

New players lose everything with one gank, that is off-putting and they leave.

Ye, I never understood how loss is so important.

One more thing: Yesterday admin said that more pve won't come short to mid term, you all seem to avoid that.

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5 minutes ago, z4ys said:

And thats the problem. We all say we want meaningful pvp and fights but as soon chances go down its not meaningful anymore. We dont fight because of fights, we fight because of winning. And there is no solution other than what we  have now. Allow ganking.

I refuse to believe this is a solution.  This game needs every player that it can get and ganking the everloving shit out of new players near capitals isn't accomplishing that. What we need instead are significant incentives to engage in riskier activity.

Safe zones should be no-PvP zones. Areas (counties) neighboring safe zones should be no-loss, no-capture, sunk ship insurance replacement zones, and those zones outside these areas are free-for-all, full-loss PvP zones.  This is all equivalent to systems in other games that have proven over and over to work (high sec, low sec, null sec, etc.). 

So why go to the null sec? That's where taxes are low/non existent, that's where ship building and resource production is most efficient/productive, that's where you can find resource gathering zones along the coast lines (bring in some exploration content that supports some aspects of group and solo play), other PvE content, etc.  If all of the systems and rewards scale with risk then people will willingly engage in non-consensual PvP.

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Fleets of PvPers rather sail out and hit enemy capital waters than go on a Conquest drive. And the answer is simple:

- no pve necessary

- guaranteed pvp ( whatever you may think of it, it is pvp - no ai involved )

- ease of access

 

You could ask - why don't these "clans" go on a Conquest drive to prove that "clanwars" was actually a good update ?

Answer is unknown.

Yes... how is the ClanWars working ?... from the suggestions it seemed it would be the eureka moment for NA.

Sadly there's even less conquest.

And don't bring the outlaw crap. This is just a simple venue to not even sail out and beat the crap of everyone without discrimination. Why would anyone leave a capital to find pvp right ? You can simply fight your own. And no ou won't get chased, because an entire clan or group of clans can lockdown their own newcomers if outlaw is up. This has been tested.

 

Furthermore - Loss !? What loss !? 

Ships can be easily replaced and from the majority of the opinions posted the upgrades and janky gear don't matter much, just skill, right ?!

 

So yeah, sail out, sink, get sunk, get a new ship, fight more.

Simple. Even my little group can do it without fear of losing the big ships like we did yesterday ( o7 to the soda boys ). Today we have the fleet setup again with new 1st and 2nd rates to practice some more. No meta, no fear of loss, just pure NA fun.

 

You are either brave and go fight the other clans in the their ports or you, yourselves are as newcomers as all of the newcomers you want to protect.

 

This is a wargame. It has 3 levels. Strategic ( what you clan wants in the long run ) - operational ( how to go for the objective, what to craft, etc ) - tactical ( winning battle instances ).

It is not a - hunt 10 wolves, bring me the skins, i will give you a nice epic gear piece! - mmo

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2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Furthermore - Loss !? What loss !?

It doesn't matter, what matters is it affects player behavior.

3 hours ago, Hethwill said:

So yeah, sail out, sink, get sunk, get a new ship, fight more.

I wish it was that simple. Often I have to stop playing patrol when one or two ships are sunk.

 

3 hours ago, Hethwill said:

No meta, no fear of loss, just pure NA fun.

That's how I want it to be too, both for me and potential adversaries. Fear of loss doesn't go away just because we want it to.

 

3 hours ago, Hethwill said:

 

It is not a - hunt 10 wolves, bring me the skins, i will give you a nice epic gear piece! - mmo

Amen! (That's what the pve guys want, tho. We already have the epics that are exactly like that)

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7 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Fear of loss doesn't go away just because we want it to.

Yeah sure. It is a hard fence to overcome.

I think the most difficult is not that one but the:

- cannot go out and pvp without my usual ship and modules setup and with the 17 knowledge slots :) 

 

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2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

cannot go out and pvp without my usual ship and modules setup and with the 17 knowledge slots :) 

Can't say how big a role that plays but it's part of the equation. It's understandable that people get neurotic about minmaxing, you try to avoid losing your stuff and lining someone else's PvP marks pockets.

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31 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Can't say how big a role that plays but it's part of the equation. It's understandable that people get neurotic about minmaxing, you try to avoid losing your stuff and lining someone else's PvP marks pockets.

Hence the perversity of the PvP mark incentive. Rewards and penalties for PvP should be scaled by the type of engagement, the ranks of players involved and the ratings of the ships involved in the action. Players who are outgunned and outranked should get fairly compensated with rewards just for fighting it out (i.e. providing content), whereas those who are ganking should get hardly anything other than the satisfaction of sinking/capping a ship.

The PvP mark system does nothing but reward bad behavior with meaningful loot and gives the content providers (the losers) nothing.

In a game like this, which is now dominated by the win-at-all-costs mentality, exhibited by Crowny, weighed against the don't-lose-for-any-reason attitude of the ganged-up-on, we need something different. We should be encouraging risk taking behavior by the skilled, just as much as that of the new or inexperienced.  I'd propose making rewards of gold, experience, and renown be dependent on the disparity of ship rating, sum of mods used, and the renowns of the captains involved.

Players who take an engagement with the famous captain Jodgi should get rewards just for the honor of being defeated by him, etc. And the elite PvP'ers should be actively hunting other highly renowned captains because there's no honor (rewards) in beating up and sinking yet one more nameless newb, etc. 

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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

Hence the perversity of the PvP mark incentive. Rewards and penalties for PvP should be scaled by the type of engagement, the ranks of players involved and the ratings of the ships involved in the action. Players who are outgunned and outranked should get fairly compensated with rewards just for fighting it out (i.e. providing content), whereas those who are ganking should get hardly anything other than the satisfaction of sinking/capping a ship.

The PvP mark system does nothing but reward bad behavior with meaningful loot and gives the content providers (the losers) nothing.

In a game like this, which is now dominated by the win-at-all-costs mentality, exhibited by Crowny, weighed against the don't-lose-for-any-reason attitude of the ganged-up-on, we need something different. We should be encouraging risk taking behavior by the skilled, just as much as that of the new or inexperienced.  I'd propose making rewards of gold, experience, and renown be dependent on the disparity of ship rating, sum of mods used, and the renowns of the captains involved.

Players who take an engagement with the famous captain Jodgi should get rewards just for the honor of being defeated by him, etc. And the elite PvP'ers should be actively hunting other highly renowned captains because there's no honor (rewards) in beating up and sinking yet one more nameless newb, etc. 

We can only dream

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The bad behaviour was there long before pvp marks. What if the statistics show that there was an increase in pvp activity after marks?

There already is a feature for those who are frustrated by getting nothing by being content providers: patrol zones. What if the statistics show patrol zones increased pvp activity?

Some renowned captains are fighting eachother in the patrol zones, there is a vid floating around here of rediii beating me up. I've been beaten up by Pala and friends, I've seen Ram Dinark and friend die there after sinking me. No rage, no namecalling, just joy over finding a good fight. (The Ram fights wasn't too good actually, it was them tag teaming me until two late joining Oceans dropped on them. We're trying to get that silliness fixed.)

I've seen some circle of death running, some basic cutter shenanigans at tumbado zone and a shitload of death squads but other than that the fighting in the zones is without excess drama.

Maybe fixed patrol missions is the best way of getting more people to leave new guys alone?

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2 minutes ago, jodgi said:

The bad behaviour was there long before pvp marks. What if the statistics show that there was an increase in pvp activity after marks?

There already is a feature for those who are frustrated by getting nothing by being content providers: patrol zones. What if the statistics show patrol zones increased pvp activity?

Some renowned captains are fighting eachother in the patrol zones, there is a vid floating around here of rediii beating me up. I've been beaten up by Pala and friends, I've seen Ram Dinark and friend die there after sinking me. No rage, no namecalling, just joy over finding a good fight. (The Ram fights wasn't too good actually, it was them tag teaming me until two late joining Oceans dropped on them. We're trying to get that silliness fixed.)

I've seen some circle of death running, some basic cutter shenanigans at tumbado zone and a shitload of death squads but other than that the fighting in the zones is without excess drama.

Maybe fixed patrol missions is the best way of getting more people to leave new guys alone?

So why are we floating around the lowest player numbers ever?

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