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Patch 25: Open world user interface update.

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5 hours ago, Ink said:

Fixed the bug with hold optimization perk - now it affects only player ship on client side (as it works on server side).

The perk was not supposed to increase hold of fleet ships. Before the hotfix on client side their hold were affected by the perk thus in fact players overloaded fleet ships.

It may not have been the intended effect at the start but it was one of the big reasons for a trader to have it. And seeing as AI ships have loads of perks and modules at the same time to "cheat" why not give all Ai ships this perk aswell.

The logic to remove it does not make sense. If your giving Ai  more mods and perks to make them better/harder then clearly Ai should also have this perk.

5 hours ago, Archaos said:

So now the fleet ships do not have the extra hold space if you have the hold optimization perk?

If this is correct, can I ask what do the Dev team have against traders in the game as a lot of the recent decisions appear to want to eliminate trading from the game.

I have to agree on this question, What do the Developers have against traders?

Traders are a good target for PvP players so in fact to promote more Open world PvP you should try to cater to these kind of players as they very much give more chances to PvP.

Many of the changes lately has been to improve PvP at the cost of PvE and especially Traders and Econ players.

With this change to the Hold Optimization Perk it seems quite clear that again non PvP players gets screwed as few and small changes have been made to improve the economy and trading in this game but loads of changes and improvements are more to cater to the PvP players. Is that because they whine the most on the forums?

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5 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

The ships all ready have pretty big cargo holds, I'm sure they will live with a little less profit.  Than again if that much boost was needed to make a profit they where prob doing the wrong goods or they all ready sitting on like 200 millions so it's not really going to matter if they loose a little here or there. 

You don't have any sense for traders! U loose 20% of hold? U loose 20 % of your profit - wish you gankers would loose 20% of all your fighting skills!!! PvPers would cry the hell out here in forums ...
I am sure you will live with 20 % less of your actual skills 😉 Sir Texas Sir

Edited by Peter von Friedemach

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5 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

The ships all ready have pretty big cargo holds, I'm sure they will live with a little less profit.  Than again if that much boost was needed to make a profit they where prob doing the wrong goods or they all ready sitting on like 200 millions so it's not really going to matter if they loose a little here or there.

That is all true that the Indiaman still has a big hold and the change is not game breaking in itself, BUT they current tendencies are that traders and econ players gets screwed over and over because most changes are aimed at pleasing the PvP crowd who apparently whines the most and thus gets most attention.

When will I get my 100K Traders marks that I can buy equal good skills / modules like PvP marks? Never is my guess as we Traders and Econ players simply dont whine enough on these forums.

Edited by Niagara
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Aww the little traders are crying cause they had broken game mechanics fixed.  The perk was never called Fleet Optimization.  You didn't loose 20% you still have it on your main ship.  

As for me being a PvPer I would like to tell you I"m pretty much a tripple threat in this game:   PVP/RVR, CRAFT, TRADE

So I do know a thing or two about trading.  If your margine is so bad that you have to bring 4 ships and loosing 20% cargo on 3 of those than you are trading in the wrong goods, or your sitting on 200 millions pluss that is doing nothing.   

Again I don't even run Hold Optimization on my Crafter or Trader/Hauler chars.   They don't need it cause I make enough profit that I don't need to stuff the ship full. I also sale cannons in two ports and ships in one to make money. I get a lot of money just for doing PvE to get my PvP/RvR too.   There are multi ways in this game to make money and I have no problem with some one doing it strictly through trade, but if the Devs fix a bad mechanic that shouldn't be there so don't bitch.  You will live with the less cargo space and profits I assure you.   I mean it's not like half those ships ever make it any way when you get tagged and have no guns and loose a few of them.  Here's a hint how to max your profits and not loose ships:

1) RUN GUNS ON YOUR TRADE SHIP

2) MAKE RUNS WITH CLAN MATES....Numbers is power, loan hunters or small groups won't attack a large group even if they are all trade ships.

3) IF YOU ARE RUNNING SOLO BRING ONE ESCORT WAR SHIP.  Fight them off while your trade ships run and escapes (though this will be changes soon so no easy free ride back to port).

4) DON'T DEPEND ON ONE THING TO MAKE YOU MONEY.  Econs and times change, so does game mechanics.  Remember the Fine woods days, Campus Wood and Tabbaco days where you could make a killing of them.  Devs saw that as a problem and changed it. 

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43 minutes ago, Niagara said:

That is all true that the Indiaman still has a big hold and the change is not game breaking in itself, BUT they current tendencies are that traders and econ players gets screwed over and over because most changes are aimed at pleasing the PvP crowd who apparently whines the most and thus gets most attention.

When will I get my 100K Traders marks that I can buy equal good skills / modules like PvP marks? Never is my guess as we Traders and Econ players simply dont whine enough on these forums.

Have you noticed there are all these bypasses for economy, yet no option for bypassing day to day ganking and unfair battles even as a new player with no gear? Remember the days when you could buy ships with combat marks, not the best ships, but good middle of the road ships easily replaceable for various tasks? It's funny how much emphasis is put on pvp, and equally vital things like economy are ignored.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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On 8/9/2018 at 10:54 AM, admin said:

This decision is thought through across multiple scenarios and significantly improves realistic resolution to combat and out of combat situations + closes the loophole.
The negatives that you dont like some players might considered positives. For example the ability to revenge gank the player killer if he is too arrogant and greedy. Or no slow fat rich indiamans escaping due to automatic teleport to port (without actually sailing on the OW). 
 

It was important to close the loop hole, but this solution reduces rather than improves "realistic resolution to combat situations" for traders AND those who hunt them.

I  am in command of a small trader flotilla carrying desperately needed violins to the Havana Symphony Orchestra so they can begin their 1816 Season sounding their best. A single pirate hits us. I signal my captains to save their ships and cargo and make best speed to Havana. I will fight a delaying action possibly sacrificing myself for the glory of music. The show must go on! I ultimately give my life after a valiant 30 minute running battle against great odds. But the next day, the Havana papers question why my captains chose to ignore my orders to escape and instead chose to drop sail and sit around watching and waiting until my battle had concluded. Alas, old worn-out violins for another year...

Please continue to look for a solution to the loophole that doesn't totally remove a realistic element in another part of the game. Perhaps increased length of invisibility for escaped trader fleet ships would be a reasonable compromise?

Edited by Farrago
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21 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Have you noticed there are all these bypasses for economy, yet no option for bypassing day to day ganking and unfair battles even as a new player with no gear? Remember the days when you could buy ships with combat marks, not the best ships, but good middle of the road ships easily replaceable for various tasks? It's funny how much emphasis is put on pvp, and equally vital things like economy are ignored.

Sadly I have noticed this. Most changes lately has been to cater to the PvP players and few if any has had positive effects for traders and econ players. In fact some have been quite bad for econ players and crafters or traders but hey we dont whine alot here so why bother making content for us.....

 

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7 hours ago, Elric said:

Some of the ships can be made relevant again by changing the rules around PB's and hostility.

If the port BR limits the ship class, then 4th rate, 2nd rates and others become important again.

  • 10000+ BR - any ship can enter, any ship can grind
  • 7500 BR - 2nd rates max can enter or grind
  • 5000 BR - 3rd rates max can enter or grind
  • 2500 BR - 4th rates max can enter or grind

How often do you see 2nd rates in battles now?  Or 4th rates?

I really like your idea. Make other ships class important in PB . Gives more variety; A big +1 for your idea.

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8 minutes ago, Niagara said:

Sadly I have noticed this. Most changes lately has been to cater to the PvP players and few if any has had positive effects for traders and econ players. In fact some have been quite bad for econ players and crafters or traders but hey we dont whine alot here so why bother making content for us.....

 

You do know the next patch is not just UI, it's ECON PATCH TOO?

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2 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

You do know the next patch is not just UI, it's ECON PATCH TOO?

I wont hold my breath.. meaning WHEN I see I will believe it.

Also I think its more of a crafting patch and not Econ.

Edited by Niagara
Added stuff

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53 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Aww the little traders are crying cause they had broken game mechanics fixed.  The perk was never called Fleet Optimization.  You didn't loose 20% you still have it on your main ship.  

As for me being a PvPer I would like to tell you I"m pretty much a tripple threat in this game:   PVP/RVR, CRAFT, TRADE

So I do know a thing or two about trading.  If your margine is so bad that you have to bring 4 ships and loosing 20% cargo on 3 of those than you are trading in the wrong goods, or your sitting on 200 millions pluss that is doing nothing.   

Again I don't even run Hold Optimization on my Crafter or Trader/Hauler chars.   They don't need it cause I make enough profit that I don't need to stuff the ship full. I also sale cannons in two ports and ships in one to make money. I get a lot of money just for doing PvE to get my PvP/RvR too.   There are multi ways in this game to make money and I have no problem with some one doing it strictly through trade, but if the Devs fix a bad mechanic that shouldn't be there so don't bitch.  You will live with the less cargo space and profits I assure you.   I mean it's not like half those ships ever make it any way when you get tagged and have no guns and loose a few of them.  Here's a hint how to max your profits and not loose ships:

1) RUN GUNS ON YOUR TRADE SHIP

2) MAKE RUNS WITH CLAN MATES....Numbers is power, loan hunters or small groups won't attack a large group even if they are all trade ships.

3) IF YOU ARE RUNNING SOLO BRING ONE ESCORT WAR SHIP.  Fight them off while your trade ships run and escapes (though this will be changes soon so no easy free ride back to port).

4) DON'T DEPEND ON ONE THING TO MAKE YOU MONEY.  Econs and times change, so does game mechanics.  Remember the Fine woods days, Campus Wood and Tabbaco days where you could make a killing of them.  Devs saw that as a problem and changed it. 

Ok. I dont think I was crying but merely pointing out some things that I and other Econ/Traders players have noticed and felt... But hey, if you cry for that little then by all means, let the tears flow.

But lets discuss your points and suggestions instead.

You cant have 3 fleet ships and have the Hold optimization perk as that is 11 points so that argument is just moot. I dont mind the Devs fixing bugs but atm there has been so little love for Econ/Traders its starting to feel that we are not wanted in the game.

1. I HAVE GUNS ON MY SHIPS!!!

2. IF POSSIBLE I TRY TO DO THAT, HOWEVER NOT ALWAYS POSSIBLE!!!

3. I DO THAT ALSO, BUT TRADE SHIPS ARE DUMB AND WILL OFTEN RUN AGAINST THE ENEMY IF THE WIND IS IN THAT DIRECTION; I WISH THEY WOULD SCATTER AND FLEE IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS TO INCREASE CHANCE TO GET AWAY!!! THAT MAKES FIGHTING HARD NOT TO MENTION YOU CAN GET ATTACKED AGAIN JUST AS SOON AS THE BATTLE IS OVER WHICH MEANS YOU LOSE YOUR TRADE SHIPS ANYWAY...

4. I TRADE IN A MULTITUDE OF ITEMS TO MAKE MONEY, I ALSO TRADE IN RESOURCES NEEDED TO CRAFT TO AID OTHERS AND THE CLAN!!!

There are atm 4 main perks that is aimed at Traders. Fleet Perks 1-3 and Hold Optimization.

25% of those perks just got bug fixed. If 25% of PvP oriented perks got nerfed in a bug fixed I bet there would be more whining here then what I have a few others have made over this change.

The perk itself is what it is after the bug fix, but the content created for Traders is little.

Where are the TRADERS MARKS? I mean I can see that they are listed right up there with Combat, PvP and Victory marks, yet THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN AWARDED FOR ANY TRADE.

Now this could be due the fact that you need to trade from one corner of the map to another to get 1 but guess what, I have tried that and it did not award any Traders marks.

But No, I dont think content for traders has been a priority for the developers and that's what it is. Its a small team, they have to have priority's but I think I earned the right to whine here just as much as any other player about what I see as missing content in the game.

Or crying as you call it.

 

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2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Aww the little traders are crying cause they had broken game mechanics fixed.  The perk was never called Fleet Optimization.  You didn't loose 20% you still have it on your main ship.  

As for me being a PvPer I would like to tell you I"m pretty much a tripple threat in this game:   PVP/RVR, CRAFT, TRADE

So I do know a thing or two about trading.  If your margine is so bad that you have to bring 4 ships and loosing 20% cargo on 3 of those than you are trading in the wrong goods, or your sitting on 200 millions pluss that is doing nothing.   

Again I don't even run Hold Optimization on my Crafter or Trader/Hauler chars.   They don't need it cause I make enough profit that I don't need to stuff the ship full. I also sale cannons in two ports and ships in one to make money. I get a lot of money just for doing PvE to get my PvP/RvR too.   There are multi ways in this game to make money and I have no problem with some one doing it strictly through trade, but if the Devs fix a bad mechanic that shouldn't be there so don't bitch.  You will live with the less cargo space and profits I assure you.   I mean it's not like half those ships ever make it any way when you get tagged and have no guns and loose a few of them.  Here's a hint how to max your profits and not loose ships:

1) RUN GUNS ON YOUR TRADE SHIP

2) MAKE RUNS WITH CLAN MATES....Numbers is power, loan hunters or small groups won't attack a large group even if they are all trade ships.

3) IF YOU ARE RUNNING SOLO BRING ONE ESCORT WAR SHIP.  Fight them off while your trade ships run and escapes (though this will be changes soon so no easy free ride back to port).

4) DON'T DEPEND ON ONE THING TO MAKE YOU MONEY.  Econs and times change, so does game mechanics.  Remember the Fine woods days, Campus Wood and Tabbaco days where you could make a killing of them.  Devs saw that as a problem and changed it. 

Tex,

good hints there.  Thanks.

Have you got any ideas for those of us who like to use small ships, T Lynxs, and avoid combat?  This new patch will eliminate the magic teleport for fleet ships, to the nearest port.  Sounds like this is a good thing so players don't get a free transport of a whole fleet of 3 Indiamans safely to port with 12,000 ton of cargo.  But for the modest merchants, sailing little schooners, it would be nice to not get repeatedly dragged to the chopping block.

z4ys offered a suggestion;  "Just surrender rightaway  while your ships escaped. raider has to sail towards your lost ship while you leave the battle and sail away with the remaining ships? Giving you a huge headstart". 

I'm looking for ways to stay in game and not be forced into fighting.  I don't use the larger ships.  There has to be some strategies to avoid being pulled back along side the same solo raider with each fleet ship and not be forced to fight?

 

Edited by Macjimm
1200 is different than 12,000

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5 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

Tex,

good hints there.  Thanks.

Have you got any ideas for those of us who like to use small ships, T Lynxs, and avoid combat?  This new patch will eliminate the magic teleport for fleet ships, to the nearest port.  Sounds like this is a good thing so players don't get a free transport of a whole fleet of 3 Indiamans safely to port with 12,000 ton of cargo.  But for the modest merchants, sailing little schooners, it would be nice to not get repeatedly dragged to the chopping block.

z4ys offered a suggestion;  "Just surrender rightaway  while your ships escaped. raider has to sail towards your lost ship while you leave the battle and sail away with the remaining ships? Giving you a huge headstart". 

I'm looking for ways to stay in game and not be forced into fighting.  I don't use the larger ships.  There has to be some strategies to avoid being pulled back along side the same solo raider with each fleet ship and not be forced to fight?

 

Tlynx are requin food

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3 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

2) MAKE RUNS WITH CLAN MATES....Numbers is power, loan hunters or small groups won't attack a large group even if they are all trade ships.

 

 

Nobody wants to schedule their long trade hauling hours according someone else's schedule, and there aren't enough trading goods to go around for a group anyway.  You're fighting everyone else in your nation to buy the good stuff, and when you find a money pot you don't want to advertise the good stuff to everyone else and reveal your profitable secrets. 

 

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4 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

3) IF YOU ARE RUNNING SOLO BRING ONE ESCORT WAR SHIP.

This comment alone shows that you do not do risky trading to other nations ports, as you cannot sail a warship into enemy ports so how are you supposed to defend your traders with a warship. Taking a warship in fleet is a waste of time as everyone knows how lousy the AI fights and it cannot have perks so is even further gimped.

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1 hour ago, Coraline Vodka said:

Tlynx are requin food

Before Bonacca PB I sailed repairs on a TLynx into port. Max Speed 12.6. Was tagged by a Spanish req just outside Bonacca and I managed to get away.

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1 hour ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Nobody wants to schedule their long trade hauling hours according someone else's schedule, and there aren't enough trading goods to go around for a group anyway.  You're fighting everyone else in your nation to buy the good stuff, and when you find a money pot you don't want to advertise the good stuff to everyone else and reveal your profitable secrets. 

And this is why clans fail.  You don't work with each other as a team.  I have done runs with clan mates and I know some of the guys are still doing them when they make runs.  We collect up our goods over time and than make a run for profit filling every ones ships.  

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

This comment alone shows that you do not do risky trading to other nations ports, as you cannot sail a warship into enemy ports so how are you supposed to defend your traders with a warship. Taking a warship in fleet is a waste of time as everyone knows how lousy the AI fights and it cannot have perks so is even further gimped.

This comment alone shows how much you don't know the game mechanics.  If your going to run in enemy waters you can still put it in your fleet. As soon as you get tagged you tell the AI to stop and you trade ships with it and than tell the now trade ship to escape and you go fight.

 

You know if all these so called Traders do nothing but trading what the hell are they spending all that loot/money on they get from these runs?  I make a few runs to friendly ports and I easily make any where from 1-5 million profit on a run using only one or two trade ships with a war ship and these are friendly port runs.   

2 hours ago, Macjimm said:

Sigh,
seems like there is little hope left.

Saddly shallow waters your pretty much screwed cause of the crew and gun compared to other shallow ships.  It's the only time I don't run an escort ship and I take the lost of the ship they go after.  I plan those runs off hours so less chance of getting tagged/found.

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1 hour ago, Archaos said:

This comment alone shows that you do not do risky trading to other nations ports, as you cannot sail a warship into enemy ports so how are you supposed to defend your traders with a warship. Taking a warship in fleet is a waste of time as everyone knows how lousy the AI fights and it cannot have perks so is even further gimped.

There's traders and then there's smugglers.

I've "smuggled" into every capital and plenty of other ports.

Its not about just getting it from A to B, timing is everything. A good smuggler makes sure luck is on their side. A lot of traders seem to really just roll the dice no matter what red flags may be out there. 

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33 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

This comment alone shows how much you don't know the game mechanics.  If your going to run in enemy waters you can still put it in your fleet. As soon as you get tagged you tell the AI to stop and you trade ships with it and than tell the now trade ship to escape and you go fight.

And how many times have you tried that, you end up on a gimped ship as you have no skill slots filled on a ship that has been in fleet.

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1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

And this is why clans fail.  You don't work with each other as a team.

Nah, the port only spawned one or two players worth of the trade goods, so I protected it from being diluted by too many players and kept the wealth in my clan.  If anyone else started using the same route and goods there would not be enough to make it worthwhile anymore.  By exploiting that trade route efficiently I was able to contribute more to the team/clan economy with crafting materials and ships.  (Several clan members borrowed my ships and soon disappeared from the game.)  Other players had their own secret trade routes, as well. 

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2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

You know if all these so called Traders do nothing but trading what the hell are they spending all that loot/money on they get from these runs?  I make a few runs to friendly ports and I easily make any where from 1-5 million profit on a run using only one or two trade ships with a war ship and these are friendly port runs.  

I think I made about 200k-250k profit per round trip using a 3 LGV fleet.  IIRC the round trip took one wind cycle, so I had good wind the whole way with no waiting, and zero risk.  I did that until I got up around 10-15 million assets and moved on to doing the crafting ranks. 

I'm still mad they made the LGV capturable after I bought the permits to build them.  :/ 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Saddly shallow waters your pretty much screwed cause of the crew and gun compared to other shallow ships.  It's the only time I don't run an escort ship and I take the lost of the ship they go after.  I plan those runs off hours so less chance of getting tagged/found.

Not sure what you mean.  Crew and gun?  Ship they go after?

Also:  I've  been jumped and capped after hours and the Raiders who tagged me said they hunt "off hours" because they are less likely to encounter groups (of traders), and they believe solo traders tend to work "off hours".  I find I get jumped by Princes less often when I sail during prime time.  During prime time I am more likely to outrun the Raiders I encounter, and the groups of Raiders are seeking bigger targets.

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17 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

"it's a fact that so many seasoned and very active testers got bitter (or silent) over time ..."

guess why ... then ... (or go on thnking this is the best game possible just because you personally like it)

Edited by victor

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