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Patch 25: Open world user interface update.

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12 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

I am claiming that maybe 1-2 Santis max could be good and that is still not very profiting or perfect setup. Here we go: 605 BR vs 580 BR, 25 BR difference. Now it takes only 3-4 Santis replaced by Oceans to toss in additional Mortar Brig or Requin or even Prince. Santis would be fine with 580 BR and remodeled hull, but right now Santis are only good in 1v1 or against small ships. They don't fit in fleet composition, they can't participate in fleet sailing (like line formations) because if you watch PB streams from rediii for example or other streamers, it's always said "focus Santis first", "It's easier to penetrate/kill them". That is sad truth. 

On the other hand Victories became inferior again because their lost their "upwind sailing" advantage and they are susceptible to leaks and their HP was reduced.

TLDR version: you want to find some points where you don't agree with me and want to maneuver out of points where you do :)

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TL;DR even Privateer, Cerberus or Essex could find some use in PB or other fight, but that doesn't mean they are good or balanced. They are terrible ships and finding a positive thing or use for them won't change that fact. 

Do you know how stuff is balanced in other games, like WoT, War Thunder, and other that sorta games? Devs see the exact % of which ships/tanks/items/weapons are used the most. Then they make slight buffs/nerfs until things even out. Every ship should have a good purpose, strong side etc. 

Santi is bad mostly because of hull design and BR. If the hull will be redisigned, then it could be balanced ship after all. At this point even Bellonas with 32s easily pen Santi from distance while L'Oceans slightly angled bounce stuff at 250m.

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1 hour ago, Crow said:

Saying the same thing over and over and over again does not make you correct it makes you a troll.

mhmmmmmmmmm.

The devs have said what they are doing.

They have said why they are doing it.

What else can they say or do??

If you don't except it, move on.

Maybe I explained something wrong .

A Forum is , where people can discuss or write down their own statement to a topic.

(damn said that Forum thing again , now i´m a troll )

That includes , that sometimes same statement could appear from several people, or they discuss about a statement.

Edited by Nuka

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1 minute ago, Banished Privateer said:

Do you know how stuff is balanced in other games, like WoT, War Thunder, and other that sorta games? Devs see the exact % of which ships/tanks/items/weapons are used the most. Then they make slight buffs/nerfs until things even out. Every ship should have a good purpose, strong side etc. 

That's the approach I'm advocating for quite a while :) In fact, NA has a great environment for setting a system like this - stats of what ships are used in PB's could be used to balance them out automatically by BR.

 

3 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

even Privateer, Cerberus or Essex could find some use in PB or other fight, but that doesn't mean they are good or balanced. They are terrible ships and finding a positive thing or use for them won't change that fact. 

Here's a task for you - find a positive side of using something else than Requin in PB's from before the patch (discluding MBrigs on offence).

That's the difference between an unbalanced ship, and an unbalanced PB tier.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

even Bellonas with 32s easily pen Santi from distance while L'Oceans slightly angled bounce stuff at 250m.

I know, that's why we focused you in Santi in the last fight. Still, Santi has it's uses. Even the weakness which you mentioned - that it's focused - can be an advantage.

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17 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Now write a brief description why everyone should use Pavels in Port Battles and we will have a complete set of texts "How to use underdog ships". 

Ships you mentioned are by no means all the ships which are underdogs.

That's interesting, it seems you're virtually unable to publicly agree with me on anything :) You're probably even unable to agree with this statement :)

 

I guess I won't feed this discussion any more, it's not the topic of this thread.

 

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9 hours ago, Gott365 said:

And still: The DLC buyer has no risk (yet...I have hope) apart from losing a ship, which he can replace for free the next day.

Just had another proof of exactly this: A lonely pirate player in a Herc tried to attack me and my clan mate. Now that´s nothing of importance, right?

Well, the fact we both had a fleet of 3 medium ships with us (he couldn´t know it was 3 armed Indiamen each), and were in Bellona and Constitution respectively, might be of importance.

What I´m trying to say is: The fact, that he was in a Herc, gave this guy the confidence to get into a battle, which he could not possibly win (and I guess, we all agree on that). He didn´t get to attack us, bc of the BR difference, but he tried several times, and followed us for a couple of minutes. Now if that guy hadn´t nothing to lose, but much to win, would anyone think he would´ve done that? Tried to solo 8 ships at once? I guess nobody would, apart from some madmen who, again, would not care about losing their ship.

I guess that´s enough to clearly state and strengthen my point, that I mentioned earlier.

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5 hours ago, Gott365 said:

Just had another proof of exactly this: A lonely pirate player in a Herc tried to attack me and my clan mate. Now that´s nothing of importance, right?

Well, the fact we both had a fleet of 3 medium ships with us (he couldn´t know it was 3 armed Indiamen each), and were in Bellona and Constitution respectively, might be of importance.

What I´m trying to say is: The fact, that he was in a Herc, gave this guy the confidence to get into a battle, which he could not possibly win (and I guess, we all agree on that). He didn´t get to attack us, bc of the BR difference, but he tried several times, and followed us for a couple of minutes. Now if that guy hadn´t nothing to lose, but much to win, would anyone think he would´ve done that? Tried to solo 8 ships at once? I guess nobody would, apart from some madmen who, again, would not care about losing their ship.

I guess that´s enough to clearly state and strengthen my point, that I mentioned earlier.

It's obvious what he thought.

Here's two players who like to trade.

Because they have NO PERKS other than fleet control.

And those 6 traders will have no cannon.

So he would be fighting two non PvP players who had no perks.

8 ships 6 of which would likely be unarmed.

Easy to take a chance on a quick trader kill and escape from big fat slow 4th and 3rf rates that were trying to manouvre thought 6 traders.

Or maybe he was holding you up for his clan mates to arrive?

Not a bad proposition.

Proof is factual, not conjecture.

Edited by Crow
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1 hour ago, Crow said:

Because they have NO PERKS other than fleet control.

 

Yeah, Fleet Control 3 is a giveaway.  You rarely see it, and you know it's almost certainly going to be trading alts if you do. (still, they could certainly be armed)

Edited by Barbancourt (rownd)

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7 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

Now write a brief description why everyone should use Pavels in Port Battles and we will have a complete set of texts "How to use underdog ships". 

Pavel needs some of its old stats back for sure.  That are make it the only ship that can use poods and give it’s proper cannon lay out not what it has now.  With that l’ocean should be using only the 36 not the 42 and that will help balance it some.  Victory should get its 68 on the very top deck and maybe some stat changes to bring it back to being the braking agil 1st rate of the three.

18 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Yeah, Fleet Control 3 is a giveaway.  You rarely see it, and you know it's almost certainly going to be trading alts if you do. (still, they could certainly be armed)

And several of these guys keep saying they are won’t put guns in cause it’s a sure lost.  Maybe if you go for less profit and more surviability they wouldn’t be a sure lost.  I never have more than fleet 2 on my alt that hauls all my stuff and the main ship is almost always a 5th rate to protect them.  I don’t need max profits cause I make money doing other things in game like sale cannons and ships and  killing big AI fleets.

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As for the Requin and new balance.  I think the 6&7th rates was needed any way and looks good so far by what I looked at for most ships stats. 

I still think to solve the Requin issues is it needs to moved to 5th rate like the Herc as a glass cannon raider of trade ships keeping both shallow ships but not part of shallow PB.  This willl fix the mod stacking of crew as they can’t use light hammocks and the % for crew at that level is way smaller.  Both BR need to be bumped up to around the Cerberus level to so around 140-150.  Which willl limit them in PB use too.  The BR part needs to be done no matter what.

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3 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

As for the Requin and new balance.  I think the 6&7th rates was needed any way and looks good so far by what I looked at for most ships stats. 

 

The requin should be pretty much Ok when the hitboxes are fixed so a Stern rake actually do something, and a broadside of grape over the open deck slaughters the crew that it has so many of

Edited by Wyy

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5 minutes ago, Wyy said:

The requin should be pretty much Ok when the hitboxes are fixed so a Stern rake actually do something, and a broadside of grape over the open deck søaughters the crew that it has so many of

I wonder if that game is configured that way? You're right, with that many men packed into such a small space a well placed grape shot should be devastating. And if they are using a the crew mods/books then it should be even more devastating right? (The more crew you put on your requin/ship the more damage each crew hit box should do)

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14 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

its great you release the ships and gave them hard stats before you tested.

They had to start from something. They could have tested and tested and tested but then I would have probably disagreed with them in one way and you in another.

 

14 hours ago, admin said:

The game will probably come out in three four months

It is?  There will be a wipe in three four months?

 

13 hours ago, pit said:

@admin Yes, its obviously not complete, but to sell us content that makes it complete is neither in valve description, nor the players hearts.

I think it was ok to release premium ships as DLCs even when it is early access. It would be even worse if they would run out of money and game development would stop or that it never gets released because of monetary issues.  Also I think it is nice that they found more ways to make money to support the game.

 

13 hours ago, admin said:

Are you a hater? Should I remove the hater? He is demotivating the team.

You definitely should not ban active guy who wants to suggest something.  Maybe his facts are not correct but in the end he is trying to help you.  He is spending his time to help YOU.  You are demotivating the community with comments like this.

 

14 hours ago, no one said:

Thank you. Now i know what i can suggest or not to balance this ships.

13 hours ago, admin said:

its 5th rate vs ships of the line problem. 5th rates already have good fire power and still have high turn rate to make first rates feel helpless (if they dont know what they are doing). 
We know its an issue but do not have time yet to allocate to work it out (UI takes lots of time) without making 5th rates useless.

12 hours ago, Mr Blazing Orange said:

I disagree, Trincs or Endys cannot take down a nearly as easily (if they even can at all)1.Rate because they will get reload shocked broadside on broadside, because they are longer and higher than the Hercules. They are also not as nimble so dodging and Stern Camping is much harder. 

The Herc´s lenghth/firepower ratio is too high. I dont know how to explain it but really look at this ship very closely please. 

Maybe Hercules could be limited to 12pd cannons.

Balancing is funny thing...

Why not help other small 5th rates to get on the same level with Hercules? Would be balancing as well, right?

It is so unrealistic that 1st rates lose for Hercs and/or pack of Hercs. Someone could say it is unrealistic that 1st rates are sailing alone. Frigates were mostly sailed alone and were scouts and taking traders. Maybe overall immersion would be better if we actually let those small 5th rates to stay in game as stern rakers vs lonely SOLs?

If we buff small 5th rates, we can still sink those in big 5th rates?  We can kill big 5th rates with 4th rates?  Actually it can be that we should make SOLs even less maneuverable so that all ships would be useful, have a purpose, be in balance.

A fleet of SOLs would still be a very powerful fleet, I would be really surprised if 5x Hercules would win a fight vs 5x Bellonas.

If Victory speed really was 8 knots irl, that would mean we have buffed 1st rates now.  We could start making SOLs even less maneuverable and slower. SOLs could be flagships in OW PvP and not some roaming Frigates. With flagship I mean that it has other supporting elements with it.

Would this create more immersive OW? More immersive RvR? Give more options for players? Different playstyles? Versatility? etc.

Truth is that I really would like to know what is @admin trying to achieve with the current development direction. What is the big balancing idea he has, how he is planning to make a game from this.

Maybe Requin and Hercules are actually in good spot but the rest are not.

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17 hours ago, admin said:

This decision is thought through across multiple scenarios and significantly improves realistic resolution to combat and out of combat situations + closes the loophole.
The negatives that you dont like some players might considered positives. For example the ability to revenge gank the player killer if he is too arrogant and greedy. Or no slow fat rich indiamans escaping due to automatic teleport to port (without actually sailing on the OW). 
 

If you are making this change you got to allow people to switch for escaped ship while still in instance. You are fixing one thing only to break another. You want to have it fair for both sides? Force other side to focus on both ships while inside the instance if they want to win both ships. If they cant or they dont want to, they need to make a choice. Your fix favour only one side.

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Some of the ships can be made relevant again by changing the rules around PB's and hostility.

If the port BR limits the ship class, then 4th rate, 2nd rates and others become important again.

  • 10000+ BR - any ship can enter, any ship can grind
  • 7500 BR - 2nd rates max can enter or grind
  • 5000 BR - 3rd rates max can enter or grind
  • 2500 BR - 4th rates max can enter or grind

How often do you see 2nd rates in battles now?  Or 4th rates?

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5 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Victory should get its 68 on the very top deck

I mentioned this months ago..Its both factual and would make the ship a worthy 1st rate. otherwise its a useless ship just like that pavel. 

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1 hour ago, Abraham van Riebeeck said:

@admin I may be a bit too fast but may I inquire as to what was updated today?

Fixed the bug with hold optimization perk - now it affects only player ship on client side (as it works on server side).

The perk was not supposed to increase hold of fleet ships. Before the hotfix on client side their hold were affected by the perk thus in fact players overloaded fleet ships.

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12 minutes ago, Elric said:

Some of the ships can be made relevant again by changing the rules around PB's and hostility.

If the port BR limits the ship class, then 4th rate, 2nd rates and others become important again.

  • 10000+ BR - any ship can enter, any ship can grind
  • 7500 BR - 2nd rates max can enter or grind
  • 5000 BR - 3rd rates max can enter or grind
  • 2500 BR - 4th rates max can enter or grind

How often do you see 2nd rates in battles now?  Or 4th rates?

Kinda the right idea with the wrong execution. There wouldnt be enough 1st rate pbs. If you made this change. Also it is fun to have 1st rates in smaller pbs.

I would argue that the Ocean is way too BR efficient. For 580 you can take 1 locean for every two constitutions. Thats an easy choice for every fleet commander to take. The ocean is too good for its BR.

For 450 a Bucc isnt really that good compared to the Ocean even though it frees you 130 Br for a hercules. 

I think another BR balance pass is needed right now to increase the BR of first rates and dlc ships.

(Btw the pavel is 395 BR which makes it deceptively good in low BR battles.)

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5 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

And several of these guys keep saying they are won’t put guns in cause it’s a sure lost.  Maybe if you go for less profit and more surviability they wouldn’t be a sure lost.  I never have more than fleet 2 on my alt that hauls all my stuff and the main ship is almost always a 5th rate to protect them.  I don’t need max profits cause I make money doing other things in game like sale cannons and ships and  killing big AI fleets.

If your main ship is a 5th rate to protect your traders how do you trade into enemy ports? Majority of the profitable trade runs are into enemy ports so this precludes you from using a warship as your main vessel. Someone suggested that you have it in fleet and then quickly switch to it when the battle starts by sailing up to it and transferring to it, but this is also ridiculous as by the time you have done that your enemy is almost upon you and if he is in a Le Requin will be ready to board you or your trader. This also means you are sailing gimped as you do not have knowledge slots filled on a fleet ship.

The only traders where guns can make some difference is on LGV's and Indiamen, the rest have too few guns and too few crew to do anything unless they are against the smallest of vessels. The reason a lot of people do not bother with guns especially on the smaller traders is that in increases your loss due to the cost of the guns when there is little to no chance of winning the battle, your only hope is to delay the attacker long enough with your sacrificial ship so that the rest of your traders escape, but this will soon also not be an option as you will just respawn in your fleet ship.

 

14 minutes ago, Ink said:

Fixed the bug with hold optimization perk - now it affects only player ship on client side (as it works on server side).

The perk was not supposed to increase hold of fleet ships. Before the hotfix on client side their hold were affected by the perk thus in fact players overloaded fleet ships.

So now the fleet ships do not have the extra hold space if you have the hold optimization perk?

If this is correct, can I ask what do the Dev team have against traders in the game as a lot of the recent decisions appear to want to eliminate trading from the game.

Can I suggest that Hold Optimization be removed from perks and made into a permanent upgrade so it can be added to ships as required and you cannot end up in a situation where you capture a ship and suddenly find its overloaded because you do not have the perk.

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