Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
pandakraut

Hidden mechanics and weapon damage degradation

Recommended Posts

Here are some of the behind the scenes mechanics I've learned about while modding. I've posted about several of these previously but wanted to get them all compiled into a single location.

Weapon Recovery Rates
Colonel difficulty rates
    Win - supplyCapturePercent: 0.5 - weaponCapturePercent: 0.3 - weaponCaptureUnitPercent: 1 - weaponSavePercent: 0.5
    Draw - supplyCapturePercent: 0.5 - weaponCapturePercent: 0.15 - weaponCaptureUnitPercent: 1 - weaponSavePercent: 0.3
    Loss - supplyCapturePercent: 0.5 - weaponCapturePercent: 0.05 - weaponCaptureUnitPercent: 1 - weaponSavePercent2: 0.1
Brigadier General difficulty rates
    Win - supplyCapturePercent: 0.5 - weaponCapturePercent: 0.2 - weaponCaptureUnitPercent: 0.75 - weaponSavePercent: 0.5
    Draw - supplyCapturePercent: 0.5 - weaponCapturePercent: 0.15 - weaponCaptureUnitPercent: 0.75 - weaponSavePercent: 0.25
    Loss - supplyCapturePercent: 0.5 - weaponCapturePercent: 0.05 - weaponCaptureUnitPercent: 0.75 - weaponSavePercent: 0.1
Major General and Legendary
    Win - supplyCapturePercent: 0.5 - weaponCapturePercent: 0.1 - weaponCaptureUnitPercent: 0.5 - weaponSavePercent: 0.3
    Draw - supplyCapturePercent: 0.5 - weaponCapturePercent: 0.05 - weaponCaptureUnitPercent: 0.5 - weaponSavePercent: 0.15
    Loss - supplyCapturePercent: 0.5 - weaponCapturePercent: 0.05 - weaponCaptureUnitPercent: 0.5 - weaponSavePercent: 0.1
- weaponCaptureUnitPercent is currently not used in the base game so no weapons are recovered from captured units. 
- You will still get the weapons from the men that were killed in a unit that is captured.

Shatter Mechanics 
- infantry: hp% < .25 and morale% < 0.1 = shatter. hp% < .1 = shatter
- artillery: hp% < .3 and morale% < 0.2 = shatter. hp% < .1 = shatter
- cavalry: hp% < .4 and morale% < 0.2 = shatter. hp% < .1 = shatter
- skirmishers: hp% < .35 and morale% < 0.2 = shatter. hp% < .1 = shatter
- Shattering is worse than capturing in terms of the AISize. Capture is the only way to fully remove an entire unit from the AIsize.
- Shattered units do allow you to recover their weapons.
- AI tech and training are also affected by reducing the AISize.

Optimal Unit Sizes for Damage
These vary slightly based on weapon damage. The benefit of adding men/guns decreases significantly prior to these limits so using a slightly smaller size will be more optimal if money is a concern.
- max artillery size for ranged damage ~14
- max skirmisher size for ranged damage ~375
- max infantry size for ranged damage ~1845
- mounted cavalry ranged attacks never fall off due to unit size. Larger units will always deal more damage. 
- The benefits of adding more men to mounted cavalry starts to yield decreasing returns between 500-600.
- dismounted cavalry have the same optimum size as normal skirmishers at ~375
- melee damage will always continuously go up based on size though for some unit types it will do so at a diminishing rate.

Battle Mechanics
- Higher elevation gives increased accuracy/damage and morale regeneration.
- Weapons always hit but can do < 1 damage with enough negative modifiers
- Base Damage Calculation is Weapon damage * Random value between AccuracyLow / 100 and Accuracy High / 100. 

The spreadsheets attached below show the damage degradation as range increases for each weapon. You must be logged into the forum to access them.
Rifles have a RangeHint column which contains the range value displayed in game UI for each weapon. This value frequently does not match the weapons actual range.
The RangeHint value helps show the player which rifles are more effective at longer ranges, but to me are misleading in some cases.
 

ArtilleryWeaponCurves.xlsx

CavalryWeaponCurves.xlsx

InfantryWeaponCurves.xlsx

SkirmisherWeaponCurves.xlsx

WeaponStats.xlsx

Edited by pandakraut
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So to estimate the damage of the gun at a specific range, we take the base damage calculation formula, and multiply by the DegradeMultiplier?

Do you plan to modify these curves in the mod? Or can you make it easier somewhere to see the curves for the modded-renamed weapons?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, drhay53 said:

So to estimate the damage of the gun at a specific range, we take the base damage calculation formula, and multiply by the DegradeMultiplier?

That will give you a good enough idea to be able to compare weapons. Just don't expect that result to match exact damage numbers in the game.

2 hours ago, drhay53 said:

Do you plan to modify these curves in the mod? Or can you make it easier somewhere to see the curves for the modded-renamed weapons?

No plans to modify these in the mod at this time. The mod weapons have different ranges which changes the curves somewhat, though fundamentally they are still the same shape. In the mod I have added some basic tooltips to try and describe the results of the curves though they could use some serious improvement. I'll post a mod specific set of spreadsheets in that thread at some point.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elevation advantage is very interesting. I'd always held hills because the stamina drain for climbing them is a key factor in getting extra volleys into advancing brigades. The higher fire rates of units in the mod already made them some of the best defensive positions in the game, but now there's even more reason to hold the high ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent work pandakraut. Definitely a must have mod if not utilizing another mod.

 

Edited by PaloAlto
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A very excellent post.

 

I wonder if there are curves where increased unit levels eventually overcome the most efficient number for fire damage. For example if a full 50 gun battery churns out more total damage, or if a 1k cav or 4k infantry group, etc. They certainly have other benefits such as being much more sturdy but I still wonder.

Edited by chemical_art

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, chemical_art said:

I wonder if there are curves where increased unit levels eventually overcome the most efficient number for fire damage. For example if a full 50 gun battery churns out more total damage, or if a 1k cav or 4k infantry group, etc. They certainly have other benefits such as being much more sturdy but I still wonder.

For the base game it is impossible to overcome the falloff with player units. For infantry, the AI will be able to surpass the peak damage around 2850 men. Skirmishers can't surpass the peak even at 1k men. Artillery surpass it around 44 guns. Higher or lower damage from weapons, perks, etc will move those numbers slightly but you probably won't be able to notice as long as you're within 50 or so men or 1 cannon in either direction.

When modded unit sizes get involved you will hit the lowest damage point at the base game max unit size. Then damage will begin to climb linearly again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

For the base game it is impossible to overcome the falloff with player units. For infantry, the AI will be able to surpass the peak damage around 2850 men. Skirmishers can't surpass the peak even at 1k men. Artillery surpass it around 44 guns. Higher or lower damage from weapons, perks, etc will move those numbers slightly but you probably won't be able to notice as long as you're within 50 or so men or 1 cannon in either direction.

When modded unit sizes get involved you will hit the lowest damage point at the base game max unit size. Then damage will begin to climb linearly again.

Gotcha, although what is base game max unit sizes? Sorry for my ignorance, I want to learn!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, chemical_art said:

although what is base game max unit sizes?

Player, AI

Infantry: 2500, 2950

Cavalry: 750, 1050

Skirmishers: 750, 1000

Artillery: 600(24), 600(24)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×