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melarky

Combat - Whats happening here

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Two questions from a relative newb.

 

1. When my ship enters an outer combat circle I lose all control. No turning, no sails. The ship just keeps moving in whatever state it was in when it crossed the boundry.  Is this normal?

 

2. Recently picked up the double shot perk. It seems now I am doing less damage on close up broadsides. Using big carronades I used to be able to almost take out an entire side of a brig in one pass. Now it seems like they are barely phased on the same maneuver. Does double shot require double charge to work better? Do I dump double shot?

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odd behaviour indeed perhaps you had a connection loss or   did you get controls back later on, or did you get out of time ?

did you make a f 11 report 

perhaps use the normal ball to see what happens 

remember double ball need a very close encounter with your opponent (and makes more damage in close encounter)

charge has more powder and pens harder and shoot s further

 

Edited by Thonys

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The controls do come back once combat starts, but of course it's a lot slower than OW.

Where I was killing em  with a side to side 5 foot apart broadside before, now there's a lot less damage done with the same move. From your statement it sounds like I can turn double shot on or off? I thought I was stuck with it until I removed the perk?

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3 hours ago, melarky said:

1. When my ship enters an outer combat circle I lose all control. No turning, no sails. The ship just keeps moving in whatever state it was in when it crossed the boundry.  Is this normal?

I get this regularly, I think it is some kind of sync error when I make the tag against AI I lose control of sail and steering for a couple of seconds. This causes an overshoot on some occasions or a bad tag. I havent noticed it as much when tagging other players, but then again I do not tag as many of them as I do AI. The control usually comes back before the tag completes.

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Sounds similar. So far I'm strictly PvE so everything is AI. I think control has come back a few times but then your fighting to stay in the circle and end up pointed any which way and usually a long way from the opponent.

So is this a bug or as designed?

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So taking this to the extreme - If I use double shot in a 12lb gun, is it shooting 2 12lb balls or 2 6lb balls? If the former than it would seem that you almost MUST use a double charge as you are trying to push twice the mass out of the barrel. With a single charge you would lose distance and/or velocity.

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1 hour ago, melarky said:

So taking this to the extreme - If I use double shot in a 12lb gun, is it shooting 2 12lb balls or 2 6lb balls? If the former than it would seem that you almost MUST use a double charge as you are trying to push twice the mass out of the barrel. With a single charge you would lose distance and/or velocity.

Yes of course you lose distance and velocity with double shot.

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Any way to control it?  If I have the double shot perk do cannons shoot double all the time or is there a hotkey to switch between single & double?

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5 hours ago, melarky said:

The controls do come back once combat starts, but of course it's a lot slower than OW.

Where I was killing em  with a side to side 5 foot apart broadside before, now there's a lot less damage done with the same move. From your statement it sounds like I can turn double shot on or off? I thought I was stuck with it until I removed the perk?

You have to select double shot in the same way you select ball/chain/grape, and it's finite... I think the equivalent of two shots per gun.

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8 hours ago, melarky said:

Two questions from a relative newb.

 

1. When my ship enters an outer combat circle I lose all control. No turning, no sails. The ship just keeps moving in whatever state it was in when it crossed the boundry.  Is this normal?

 

Do you have your mouse pointer on the little window to your upper right with the attack button? I've found I can't control the ship if that is the case.

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10 hours ago, melarky said:

1. When my ship enters an outer combat circle I lose all control. No turning, no sails. The ship just keeps moving in whatever state it was in when it crossed the boundry.  Is this normal?

Not sure about that one. Do lose control when tagging after the "Attacking in" countdown runs down? If so, that normal as the game start loading the combat instance. If it's just by entering the circle, that indeed seems weird.

2. Recently picked up the double shot perk. It seems now I am doing less damage on close up broadsides. Using big carronades I used to be able to almost take out an entire side of a brig in one pass. Now it seems like they are barely phased on the same maneuver. Does double shot require double charge to work better? Do I dump double shot?

Double shot works as follows. Two balls of the guns calibre (that is 9pd for 9 pd medium/long guns) are shot out a single gunt with a normal charge. Shooting lower calibre balls would result in the expanding gas of the ignited charge to just vent out the cannon past the projectile. So your balls (pardon the pun) would fly only a few meters if at all. Ingame you select double shot in the battle instance via the keys 1-4 (ammo menu for your respective guns, visualised on the lower middle.left on the screen), then pressing 4 for selecting double on the previusly selected gun.

I suspect the reason your damage dropped at close range is because you were using carronades before. Those CANNOT load double shot. This only works with mediums or long guns. So if you used cannons instead of carronades after taking the perk, but with single shot, the damage drop is normal. Carros deal high damge with a short reload, but the have bad accuracy and range. Cannons deal less damage (lower calibre) but thelonger barrel results in higher projectile velocity, giving better penetration, accuracy and range.

 

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What toms says, carronades do high damage, i suspect you changed to long guns but didnt load double shot..

So a normal load long/medium cannon does indeed less damage than a carronade..

Also note rookiebrig are really weak, if you rank up and no longer get rookiebrigs youll also seem to do less damage as enemy ships are thouger

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Got it seanjo - I've been looking right at it and never noticed.

Devantejah - you nailed it my man. No response at all until the pointer is out of the attack box. Can't tell you how many combats I tried to get onto only to exit the circle because I couldn't control the boat. Not sure if that would be considered a bug, but knowing that is a big win for me. Many thanks.

Tom - great explanation. First off I didn't realize carronades wouldn't load double shot. I was using them even after getting the perk. Secondly I didn't realize I had to choose double shot even after loading the perk. Maybe it's purely coincidental, or maybe I came up against some ships with better armor. I'm using 32 lb'ers and a broadside with those at point blank range would devastate my enemy. A second pass usually started a fire and demasted the ship. I'm still using the same tactics but not seeing the same level of damage. I guess it would get boring if the same thing always happened.

 

Thanks to all. I've learned a great deal from you guys. These things were hampering me for a while now.

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1 hour ago, melarky said:

Good point MrGoldstein - I'm still over in PvE picking on traders.

Come next patch you should make the switch to Caribbeanarena. The game outside combat will be drastically different, and you may be able to find some peace learning on AI before venturing off into the realm of pvp; without catching too much hurt from the pros that is.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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Looking forward to it. It seems a little lame for me to be shooting bots all the time. Although I will say they have put me in a few tough situations.

I got pretty frustrated at my poor marksmanship at first so I took up the trading side. Worked up a nice little nest egg and bought quite a few boats. Now, with the help of the fleet function I am back working on combat again. I'm up to a Surprise and boats in that range. All of this in PvE. What you guys have taught me in the last day has already made a big difference in my combat game.

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13 minutes ago, melarky said:

Looking forward to it. It seems a little lame for me to be shooting bots all the time. Although I will say they have put me in a few tough situations.

I got pretty frustrated at my poor marksmanship at first so I took up the trading side. Worked up a nice little nest egg and bought quite a few boats. Now, with the help of the fleet function I am back working on combat again. I'm up to a Surprise and boats in that range. All of this in PvE. What you guys have taught me in the last day has already made a big difference in my combat game.

Stop calling them boats!  They're ships!  Now I need to hunt you to extinction :)

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2 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

Now I need to hunt you to extinction :)

Which boat will you use for that purpose?

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11 hours ago, melarky said:

So taking this to the extreme - If I use double shot in a 12lb gun, is it shooting 2 12lb balls or 2 6lb balls? If the former than it would seem that you almost MUST use a double charge as you are trying to push twice the mass out of the barrel. With a single charge you would lose distance and/or velocity.

This is the whole point and purpose of double shot IRL.

A gun, being a long ordnance fired with a large charge to shot ratio has a significantly supersonic initial velocity.
The excessive speed is lost over relatively short distances (supersonic drag is much higher than subsonic for most of the common gun calibres (very small guns, firing grape being the primary exception, where there is little reduction in drag coefficient with lower speeds).

The gun is approximately 'ideal' at 700 yds against a target similar to the firing weapon's platform, with 'open' holing and shattering of the interior planking and inside this range the shot leaves holes so closed that it is not possible to introduce a finger - reducing the charge, doubling the shot are both used to moderate velocity, bringing the 'ideal' range down to as close as yardarm to yardarm.

When doubling the shot, the recoil is also increased and becomes dangerous, so it is commonly used in conjuction with a reduction in charge to control the excess recoil. This is not a "problem" though as the desire is to produce a wide spread of velocity from 'full charge, single shot' for use at longest ranges, to 'half charge, double shot' to use at the shortest.

Double shot, with the second reduce fired from a gun is almost identical in performance to the standard single shot fired from a carronade of the same calibre, with two balls discharged instead of 1.

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1 minute ago, Lieste said:

This is the whole point and purpose of double shot IRL.

A gun, being a long ordnance fired with a large charge to shot ratio has a significantly supersonic initial velocity.
The excessive speed is lost over relatively short distances (supersonic drag is much higher than subsonic for most of the common gun calibres (very small guns, firing grape being the primary exception, where there is little reduction in drag coefficient with lower speeds).

The gun is approximately 'ideal' at 700 yds against a target similar to the firing weapon's platform, with 'open' holing and shattering of the interior planking and inside this range the shot leaves holes so closed that it is not possible to introduce a finger - reducing the charge, doubling the shot are both used to moderate velocity, bringing the 'ideal' range down to as close as yardarm to yardarm.

When doubling the shot, the recoil is also increased and becomes dangerous, so it is commonly used in conjuction with a reduction in charge to control the excess recoil. This is not a "problem" though as the desire is to produce a wide spread of velocity from 'full charge, single shot' for use at longest ranges, to 'half charge, double shot' to use at the shortest.

Double shot, with the second reduce fired from a gun is almost identical in performance to the standard single shot fired from a carronade of the same calibre, with two balls discharged instead of 1.

There have been many studies which showed that lower velocity balls do more damage than high velocity.  The "sweet" spot is just enough velocity to penetrate the planking. 

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