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Problem is you have to learn by experience, or somebody has to tell you. Most ships need some set number of leaks to sink in a short time. Ask Banished how may leaks needed for each 1st rate, I bet he will help you.

this is a game fault, should be explained to you, by some kind of text, somewhere in the game. You also need to learn to lean to the non-leaking side, which you have to experience, or be told by someone, rinse and repeat !

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1 hour ago, Lars Kjaer said:

 Leaks are devastating because taking in water faster than your pump can funnel it out is realistic - it is a sailing game... You do realise that in a sailing game we sail on the water right? - Not under the water....

As my previous post seems to be overruled by countless accusations of "game fault" vs "you suck" followed by "offensive liar":

 

Naval Action's main goal is to recreate the naval combat of the 18th century with proper manouvers, historically correct ship models etc. Sinking Ships of the Line in battle - especially with single boardsides- was anything but realistic.* Yeah, some reasons for this might also include the inability to aim naval guns for such precise waterline shots and the unwillingness to sink expensve ships, but rather to capture them. My two shillings: Sinking first rate ships within a couple of minutes should not be a thing in game, and I can imagine that changing the mechanics will be difficult to archieve in a balanced state.

 

*In the battles of Saints (1782), First of June (1794), St. Vincent (1797), Aboukir Bay (1798) and Trafalgar (1805) a total of 245 SoLs participated of which 49 ships were lost:

44 captured,

2 exploded after out-of-control fire, 1 after being set on fire by the own crew

1 scuttled after capture, 1 blew up after surrendering

only 1 sank, after 4 hours of intense fighting

This list based soley on wikipedia entrys

TLDR: Sinking ships by leak sniping is a very potent and destructive thing in game, that IMO should not be possible in its current way

 

Edited by BlueEagleGER
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The leak mechanic is simply excellent and can easily be avoided with proper command of the ship. I see no reason for it to be changed or even removed. Also I think a vastly superior force shouldn't automatically win the engagement simply by its mere existence alone. There are many battles in history where few stood against many and prevailed. Quantity isn't the only factor - don't forget the quality. Also as admin mentioned when we look at the realism factor of 1 ship winning vs 10 in game, we forget and ignore how not just about anyone could take command of a war ship back in those days - captains had to be trained before that and thus would know a lot of things players in game might not know - as for example the hazard of leaks and how to avoid them as much as possible. Also the leak mechanic makes the pump upgrades just a bit less redundant.

Edited by Sovereign
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15 minutes ago, BlueEagleGER said:

Naval Action's main goal is to recreate the naval combat of the 18th century with proper manouvers, historically correct ship models etc. Sinking Ships of the Line in battle - especially with single boardsides- was anything but realistic.* Yeah, some reasons for this might also include the inability to aim naval guns for such precise waterline shots and the unwillingness to sink expensve ships, but rather to capture them. My two shillings: Sinking first rate ships within a couple of minutes should not be a thing in game, and I can imagine that changing the mechanics will be difficult to archieve in a balanced state.

 

Realistic would be to trade one or two broadsides with eachother and then to surrender or go in boarding... Not that much fun to do big fleet brawls that way...

GAMEPLAY > REALISM

Edited by Nelsons Barrel
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Wait, 

Rear Admiral and you didn't know about leak mechanics?🙄

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You got sunk with leaks by a skilled player. It happens. 

Your first issue is that you didn't manage your heel when he had his broadside loaded, always watch that when you don't have the weather gauge and are next to an enemy. 

Secondly, you said you reduced sails after you took leaks. Thats the wrong thing to do. You want to keep as many of those leaks out of the water as possible.

 

Story time:

Just the other day, I pulled a noob move and didn't think to check if the enemy Ingermanland next to me had his guns loaded. I took like 25 leaks in my Fir/Fir Victory (just...don't ask or think about that build too much...). That would have easily sunk someone who didn't know what to do to recover. I simply turned into the leaks to put them higher out of the water, put everyone on survival, and never took in more than 1/4 water in the ship. Easy to recover from. Now if those had been 42pd leaks, or more of them...I may have been in more trouble, but thats beside the point.

 

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28 minutes ago, BlueEagleGER said:

As my previous post seems to be overruled by countless accusations of "game fault" vs "you suck" followed by "offensive liar":

 

Naval Action's main goal is to recreate the naval combat of the 18th century with proper manouvers, historically correct ship models etc. Sinking Ships of the Line in battle - especially with single boardsides- was anything but realistic.* Yeah, some reasons for this might also include the inability to aim naval guns for such precise waterline shots and the unwillingness to sink expensve ships, but rather to capture them. My two shillings: Sinking first rate ships within a couple of minutes should not be a thing in game, and I can imagine that changing the mechanics will be difficult to archieve in a balanced state.

 

*In the battles of Saints (1782), First of June (1794), St. Vincent (1797), Aboukir Bay (1798) and Trafalgar (1805) a total of 245 SoLs participated of which 49 ships were lost:

44 captured,

2 exploded after out-of-control fire, 1 after being set on fire by the own crew

1 scuttled after capture, 1 blew up after surrendering

only 1 sank, after 4 hours of intense fighting

This list based soley on wikipedia entrys

TLDR: Sinking ships by leak sniping is a very potent and destructive thing in game, that IMO should not be possible in its current way

 

During combat SOLs don't sail at full sails but battle sails. If William Hargood didn't sail his ship at full sails, he wouldn't get so many leaks. Realism wins once again.

Edited by Banished Privateer
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2 minutes ago, Nelsons Barrel said:

 

Realistic would be to trade one or two broadsides with eachother and then to surrender or go in boarding... Not that much fun to do big fleet brawls that way...

GAMEPLAY > REALISM

not at all, Ships of The Line traded broadsides after broadsides at battles. Fighting for multiple hours until the losing side gave in and surrendered. it was a very prolonged business back then.

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15 minutes ago, Shrez said:

Wait, 

Rear Admiral and you didn't know about leak mechanics?🙄

Really? This is not the first time I have had leaks in game. I have survived exactly the same thing before with exact same ship and mods as before. The difference was I was actually battle damaged before...not undamaged and fully crewed as now. This is the first time I have actually seen or experienced a one-shot kill. As it happened I immediately depowered and dropped all sail, removed crew from guns and sails and when I saw how quickly I was filling with water hit a hull repair.

Capt. Henry Turner said that won't help as I have to keep the damaged side out of the water. By this I expect he meant that I have to keep on sailing on the same tack I was when I got hit. I did not follow his advice and I did what was supposed to be known meta in that instance. Whatever I did clearly did not work.

What I can tell you is that if this is as intended and an undamaged 1st rate ship of the line can be sunk outright in a one-shot kill, then this is going to become the meta of choice and will go down the same line as when we had nothing but rage boarding until the Devs finally do something about it.

Edited by Sir William Hargood

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Leak sniping has been around for a long time. It will never be a meta because competent captains dont get leaks. Therefore it does not need to be fixed.

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Just now, Sir William Hargood said:

As it happened I immediately depowered and dropped all sail, removed crew from guns and sails and when I saw how quickly I was filling with water hit a hull repair.

As I said in a previous post, this is exactly the wrong thing to do. If you'd have kept all sails set and turned to heel your leaked side up as much as possible, you *may* have survived. And doing a repair is also a bad thing because it diverts crew there. You want all crew going to survival when you have leaks.

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Mistakes were made but it's still bullshit if you can sink a first rate with 1 broadside :)

 

Edited by PG Monkey
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4 minutes ago, William Death said:

As I said in a previous post, this is exactly the wrong thing to do. If you'd have kept all sails set and turned to heel your leaked side up as much as possible, you *may* have survived. And doing a repair is also a bad thing because it diverts crew there. You want all crew going to survival when you have leaks.

And so you live and learn, Henry was right then. At the time anxiety took control so maybe selective hearing became an issue...I was in utter disbelief that I was actually going to sink...what was an undamaged tanky ship with 100% crew health and good mods on.

Edited by Sir William Hargood

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2 minutes ago, PG Monkey said:

Mistakes were made but it's still bullshit if you can sink a first rate with 1 broadside

Its bullshit that you can sail 100s of km in a couple of hours, compromises need to be made for a game to be fun and skill based :)

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33 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

There are many battles in history where few stood against many and prevailed.

How manny? There are only a few, in this game thow, this type of battles are one every hour or so. That is what i like to call 'bullshit'.

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in this game yes i happens,  - one broadside and you sink/leak sniping-  but it should not. The reason we just hit full sail all the time and keel a lot because we are not actually forced to steady the decks for shooting and not forced to clear the decks and use battle sail in fear of them catching fire and pose hazard to the working crew. We can just sail as we want. At the moment we just have to play with de-power and yard positioning, in Battle we should be forced into battle sails to have any meaningful accuracy and keep decks somewhat level.

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1 minute ago, Sir William Hargood said:

Then its a fucked up game...

this will change, devs will introduce some sort of battle sail buff sooner or later, it is in the pipelines. no details yet but there is always hope:)

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58 minutes ago, BlueEagleGER said:

As my previous post seems to be overruled by countless accusations of "game fault" vs "you suck" followed by "offensive liar":

 

Naval Action's main goal is to recreate the naval combat of the 18th century with proper manouvers, historically correct ship models etc. Sinking Ships of the Line in battle - especially with single boardsides- was anything but realistic.* Yeah, some reasons for this might also include the inability to aim naval guns for such precise waterline shots and the unwillingness to sink expensve ships, but rather to capture them. My two shillings: Sinking first rate ships within a couple of minutes should not be a thing in game, and I can imagine that changing the mechanics will be difficult to archieve in a balanced state.

 

*In the battles of Saints (1782), First of June (1794), St. Vincent (1797), Aboukir Bay (1798) and Trafalgar (1805) a total of 245 SoLs participated of which 49 ships were lost:

44 captured,

2 exploded after out-of-control fire, 1 after being set on fire by the own crew

1 scuttled after capture, 1 blew up after surrendering

only 1 sank, after 4 hours of intense fighting

This list based soley on wikipedia entrys

TLDR: Sinking ships by leak sniping is a very potent and destructive thing in game, that IMO should not be possible in its current way

 

so it should be all about the nice boarding mechanic right?

And ships should not be lost but mostly be captured right?

 

How will this affect crafting and trading?

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Could someone please explain exactly how leak mechanics work? When a ship is "leak sniped" does that mean the cannonball penned one side, travelled through the hull, and then punched a hole in the other side (underwater)? Because I know bullets and cannonballs decelerate really quickly when they hit water so the idea of shooting through several feet of water and then the hull to cause a leak below the water line seems implausible to me. And if it's just hitting the lower hull that's exposed above the waterline by heel, then shouldn't just holding course and handling yards to increase heel to the opposite side cause these punctures to stay above water?

clarification would be appreciated, this mechanic wasn't really a thing when I was more active in PVP

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21 minutes ago, rediii said:

so it should be all about the nice boarding mechanic right?
Make the boarding a nice mechanic first, then will decide!

How will this affect crafting and trading?
Not at all! its allready broken.

Here u have real data that u are ready to discard because its not like u want it, right?

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1 hour ago, BlueEagleGER said:

As my previous post seems to be overruled by countless accusations of "game fault" vs "you suck" followed by "offensive liar":

Naval Action's main goal is to recreate the naval combat of the 18th century with proper manouvers, historically correct ship models etc. Sinking Ships of the Line in battle - especially with single boardsides- was anything but realistic.* Yeah, some reasons for this might also include the inability to aim naval guns for such precise waterline shots and the unwillingness to sink expensve ships, but rather to capture them. My two shillings: Sinking first rate ships within a couple of minutes should not be a thing in game, and I can imagine that changing the mechanics will be difficult to archieve in a balanced state...

I agree with everything you said except: "offensive liar" bit. What I meant was "(insert offensive expletive) liar" :P Sorry just had to...(I'm sure you know it was not aimed at you.)

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Once I sailed St. Pavel... On first engagement got 25 leaks ... Lessons learned dont expose your hull below water level... Outcome ... Never sank again due to leaks.

Learn from your mistakes, if LOcean is an issue I will craft you one for free... 

Leak sniping is as effective as mast sniping if you know how to use it. Exactly same thing that gives advantage of either disabling opponent from the fight or sinking as an outcome. 

Viable strategy as any other. Please don' make this game a single strategy only, sail broadside to broadside and shoot. 

Game got so many great aspects that needs to be taken into consideration, like wind which was not on your side, hence leaks occured. Learn to use them to your advantage...

 

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1 hour ago, PG Monkey said:

Mistakes were made but it's still bullshit if you can sink a first rate with 1 broadside :)

  

In real life a 1st rate would sink from 30+ leaks, but in real life 1st rates never got so many leaks because they would go battle sails, thank you :) 

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