Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum

Recommended Posts

Oceans + full thickness (LO/WO + Cartagena + Navy Structure) still make bounce meta strong, especially when Oceans are lower BR + Santi is super flat so very easy to penetrate + the highest BR, Victory doesn't have historical 68pd carros on weather deck. #MakeVictoryGreatAgain #MakeSantisimaGreatAgain #NerfThicknessMods

image.thumb.png.a123bbccd1dd755f7ff063b94082734b.png

2E497778776FEBE27A887610DDA4F309B0251146

Edited by Banished Privateer
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nerf 1st rates so we finally see real battles and not this slow as fuck trucksailing thing and huggingmeta

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buff second and third rates and increase BR of all first rates. Right now is not so hard to wreck those ships with heavy frigates. Problem will be somewhat fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Intrepido said:

Buff second and third rates and increase BR of all first rates. Right now is not so hard to wreck those ships with heavy frigates. Problem will be somewhat fixed.

Huge issue is the thickness, Oceans are bouncing everything at slight angles.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Banished Privateer said:

Huge issue is the thickness, Oceans are bouncing everything at slight angles.

And Bucentaures or Santisimas, for example, not bounces at all. They bounce less than their small brothers the third rates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

And Bucentaures or Santisimas, for example, not bounces at all. They bounce less than their small brothers the third rates.

Not sure if sarcasm or what, but Santis are flat and Bucs have -10cm thickness compared to 1st rates. Bellonas and 3rd Rates have very good hull shape to bounce shots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Banished Privateer said:

Not sure if sarcasm or what, but Santis are flat and Bucs have -10cm thickness compared to 1st rates. Bellonas and 3rd Rates have very good hull shape to bounce shots.

A difference in thickness that shouldnt happen between ships so close as the Buc and the Vic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nerf thickness in general, make structure and firepower the true might of 1st rates as it should be.

Also taking away the 42lbs from Santi and Ocean and Bucentaure for 36s would be a good move too.

Edited by Fluffy Fishy
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

Buff second and third rates and increase BR of all first rates. Right now is not so hard to wreck those ships with heavy frigates. Problem will be somewhat fixed.

3rd are fine 2nd rates could be fine when 1st rates would be fine. better nerf 1st rates than screw everything over. (dont forget influence on 4th and below when buffing 3rd 2nd)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's only the Ocean. Rest is perfectly fine. The hull shape and the mod stacking are the issues. 

1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

And Bucentaures or Santisimas, for example, not bounces at all. They bounce less than their small brothers the third rates.

Well Bellona has a turnrate over 3.0 with AoS correct? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have done penetration tests with Santi and L'Ocean. Plank to plank the Santi has a lot more DPS (about 25%) because she has more cannons and everything penetrates. Beyond that, the Santi loses quickly.

  • the 42p carronades already start to struggle vs L'Oceans hullshape at more than 100m, while the Santi will even eat damage at 200m
  • same goes for the 12p deck: L'Ocean will bounce easily at 200m, while Santi needs 300-350m distance
  • it basically goes on after that, L'Ocean basically bounces every deck 100-150m earlier than Santi

You might think that just sailing the Santi as a very close range DPS monster could work, but every time you exchange broadsides at 150m+ (which you will because no battle starts under these ideal conditions) you lose damage; especially since even the base HP of the L'Ocean is 500 points higher (about 4%) - not much you might think, but every percent helps, as it might counter reload shocks or increase effective repairs. We could nerf L'Oceans thickness by somewhat 5-10cm to balance out its hullshape... but why nerf what is the key feature of this ship?

Instead, why not lower L'Oceans HP from 12k to 10.5k and buff Santi from 11.5k to 12k? L'Ocean will be the thickness/medium range king and Santi the HP/close range DPS king. Also, it would bring Vic closer to the other 1sts again and if its sailing qualities would stand out a bit more, it could actually be of use again.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ocean is by far the worst sailor of the 3, a brick on the water. Nerfing so much his HP or thickness will be the end of its use.

Make that thickness mods cant stack and most of the guns will pen it.

Also guys, live oak is currently giving lot of thickness, we cant forget this. We may see the same issues in other ships with a kind of similar hull shape as Ocean. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just reduce the thickness and hit points of the L'Ocean to balance it towards the Santissima. As it is now the highest BR ship should be the L'Ocean for sure.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

Huge issue is the thickness, Oceans are bouncing everything at slight angles.

We lost even more 1st rates later when we tried to half ass flip Sant Ag cause we actually got some folks willing to stay up.  Not the full count we had 2 hour before we started...funny how 20+ quickly turns into less than 20 guys when they have to stay up past midnight.   All the Victs where melted in record time and unless it was a tanked out ocean so where they.  Santis went down fast too.  The Victs really do need some love to bring it back into the game other wise it might as well just be made a 2nd Rate.  @Fluffy Fishy and many others included myself have suggested fixing the cannons.

2 hours ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

Nerf thickness in general, make structure and firepower the true might of 1st rates as it should be.

Also taking away the 42lbs from Santi and Ocean and Bucentaure for 36s would be a good move too.

Give them the 36's and put the 42 carros on the Vict's top deck. Pavel needs back it's speed and turn rate so does the Vict, it should be the fast support 1st rate cause it does not have the HP's to go toe to toe with the Santi or L'Ocean.  Pavel needs to have it's retarded 6 pounders swapped out with the 18 lbrs it had on it first.  Than they can keep it's speed as is as it would give a idffrent set up. 

We been saying pretty much this over and over and I don't know why the devs haven't looked at balance of these ships.

Does any one know if the russian 36 pbs was closer to the french 36 or the 42's?  Cause that would mean the Pavel should have 36's too as that was it's lower gun deck.

 

As for the thickness meta I think just make the mods none stackable. I never stacked them before myself, but I see just how tuff ships are with just Cart on them with LO/WO set ups.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

Oceans + full thickness (LO/WO + Cartagena + Navy Structure)

thickness already nerfed a few times, only an idiot use this meta, know. easy to find how BF equipping ships, it is in the open access.

Edited by Black Mamba

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Black Mamba said:

thickness already nerfed a few times, only an idiot use this meta, know. easy to find how BF equipping ships, it is in the open access.

Russians and Spanish equip their 1st rates and other SOLs as LO/WO + Cartagena + Navy Structure. We've sank 17 Russians at Tumbado, about 6-7 at Manataca and some more at La Tortue during last week. 

Thickness was nerfed, true... but don't forget @admin made ship angling much more important. That makes Ocean much more powerful over the flat Santi side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a L'Ocean in battle yesterday: 4 Brit L'Oceans + 4 small ships vs 1 Spanish Santi south of Bensalem. Don't speak to me about meta in this game anymore.

I had a LO/WO L'Ocean with Cartagena Caulking and others. I was COMPLETELY undamaged and fully crewed and took just ONE broadside from him when he was more than 2 thirds hull damaged and 53% sail.

35 leaks and I sank instantly despite immediately putting everyone on survival and reducing sail.

He proceeded to kill us all despite being significantly damaged and theoretically should be unable to maneuver.

This inline with the Devs design to make ONE ship defeat a VASTLY superior enemy. I simply can no longer support a game with such ridiculous mechanics as this. Period!

Edited by Sir William Hargood

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sir William Hargood said:

"35 leaks and I sank instantly despite immediately putting everyone on survival and reducing sail."

doesn't help you get the water out when the water gets free passage into the ship as you reduced sail.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Does any one know if the russian 36 pbs was closer to the french 36 or the 42's?  Cause that would mean the Pavel should have 36's too as that was it's lower gun deck.

The Russian artillery funt is roughly 494g, where as the French livre is 489g, compared to the British pound which is 453g, while the Spanish libre is 459g.

Here is a table showing how they compare in terms of modern kg:

Common NA lb British (453g) French (489g) Russian (494g)
6 2.718 2.934 2.964
9 4.077 4.401 4.446
12 5.436 5.868 5.928
18 8.154 8.802 8.892
24 10.872 11.736 11.856
32 14.496 15.648 15.808
36 16.308 17.604 17.784
42 19.026 20.538 20.748
64 28.992 31.296 31.616

Its worth remembering though that the 36s in game are based on the French 36s, where the 42lb cannons are based on the British 42s.

Edited by Fluffy Fishy
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

Russians and Spanish equip their 1st rates and other SOLs as LO/WO + Cartagena + Navy Structure.

they are fully noobs, easy frags. they always make these ships with the expectation that the NPC plays against them. this is not a reason to go to the forum and ask for nerf thickness. just go and fuck them all 😃

 

7 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

but don't forget @admin made ship angling much more important.

i don't understand, what was angling, sorry for my bad english. if it was reduced armour, the value of which affects the angle of entry of the projectile. then there are strengths and weaknesses. and weaknesses, when almost any gun can penetrate the armor of the ocean (LO/WO + Cartagena + Navy Structure), completely spread this meta. just use locked sector and control vertical angle.

 

7 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

That makes Ocean much more powerful over the flat Santi side.

the ocean has good angles of inclination of the armor boards, and santa has a very high broadside damage. I think they both cost each other and are well suited for application in different situations, combinations. it all depends on the goals that are set

Edited by Black Mamba

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Black Mamba said:

they are fully noobs, easy frags. they always make these ships with the expectation that the NPC plays against them. this is not a reason to go to the forum and ask for nerf thickness. just go and fuck them all 😃

 

i don't understand, what was angling, sorry for my bad english. if it was reduced armour, the value of which affects the angle of entry of the projectile. then there are strengths and weaknesses. and weaknesses, when almost any gun can penetrate the armor of the ocean (LO/WO + Cartagena + Navy Structure), completely spread this meta. just use locked sector and control vertical angle.

 

the ocean has good angles of inclination of the armor boards, and santa has a very high broadside damage. I think they both cost each other and are well suited for application in different situations, combinations. it all depends on the goals that are set

The vast majority of the server uses L'Oceans not without a reason. I am Santi fan and I killed a lot of L'Oceans full tanks including DreamMaker, but I struggle big time and the meta is massive, spread across entire server. Santi broadside power means nothing if enemy is angled. You cannot chase 1st rate in a 1st rate upwind if he tried to run or angle upwind, because you need to go in arc on the outside of him making your way about 1.3x - 1.5x longer so he can keep sailing in circles avoiding your broadside. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×