Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
admin

Le Requin Testing and Feedback

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

It is very simple in Naval Action today. Either you are in a xebec or not.

  1. If you are not in a xebec, your role in game will be limited to be some food for enemy xebecs. You will never win any fight against them. Sometimes you will not lose.
  2. If you are in a xebec, you will choose your fights. As a consequence, you will never lose a fight. Sometimes, you won’t win.

This not due to any player skill, but only due to a stupid modelling by the development team.

Where The Fun?

Not so at all.

Hercs outnumber xebec 5 to 1.

Most gankers now sail Hercs, normally around safe zones attacking soft targets.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Requin = OP ship 
Why?
1. from 45 ° to 150 ° with the elite pirate refit you can sail in battle at 15.5 knt (even with 80% of the sails depending on the wood used)
2. too much crew to be a 6th rank, so you can board anyone in shallow (also considering that pushing opponents upwind using a Requin is much easier than with any other ship)
3. When they are chained, it seems that they do not suffer the damage that I believe should suffer (wanted or bugs)?
4. When they are demasted they can get their beautiful mast out of nowhere in a few (the other ships usually recover only a part of the tree).
5. Requin has too much hull, in reality it was a particularly fragile ships when compared to others of their own class.
6. They mount 32 pders carronades! So in addition to being ships basically designed for boarding, in reality they are also discreet combat ships (always considering other ships of the same class).
7. Requin arms and disarms the sails too quickly, making the chase almost useless and a possible (as improbable) chain edging.
8. To chase a Requin you need at least two Requin armed with long guns and with the ability to navigate alongside. In fact the Requin has two excellent long guns on the stern (laser guided) and unfortunately four useless (in order to chase) 2 pd cannons on the bow.
Result:
The Requin sail almost practically undisturbed in the reiforcement zones, in the hunt for new players or traders who prefer safer sea routes. They can even afford the luxury of attacking in reinforcement zones, considering that reiforcement ships are very little, both for firepower and sailing profile.
All this is not good for the game because:
1. New players complain.
2. The old players now almost exclusively use Requin and / or Hercules (what do we do with all the other beautiful ships that you have made available to us?). Soon they both will be unhappy because frankly it is very boring to play only with one/two ships when you have much more disposable.
3. There is no antagonist to the Requin, even the Hercules can be pursued and not only by other Hercules!
Suggestion
1. Nerf its disproportionate sailing qualities, as for all other ships, the faster you want to be more delicate you will be in combat
2. No 32 pders carronade, put 24 pdrs or less
3. Less hull

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fantastic post by Massimo there. This ship has ruined the game in my opinion. nearly every battle now is just a pointless chase after Requins, which can attack and escape with impunity.

It's a shame, you spend 3 years+ developing a game very slowly, and then you ruin it overnight because your eyes were full of $$$$$$s.

You asked for opinions and that is mine

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Several people have pointed out that a fir/fir prince neufchatel could always evade combat almost as effectively as the Requin (to justify the requin's performance and focus on other aspects of it)

However is a problem with this argument, a fir fir prince is ineffective against anything but the most basic 6th and 7th rates, even a decent wood type prince gets its sails wrecked easily while its armor/planking is basically nonexistent + it can't carry 32 pound carronades and 250 crew as standard. I've beaten them off with decent brigs many times. A xebec on the other hand only requires one mod slot and no knowledge slots to go into fucking plaid upwind, and can do so with competitive wood types, allowing it to NOT ONLY evade anything with ease but also shred other 6th rates and gang up on anything else.  It encourages "ganking" by enabling it. It's almost impossible to force a xebec to fight. So why fight a battle you may possibly win when you can wait around and force a non premium scrub ship to fight a battle you can't possibly lose? Xebecs don't win every time but they can never lose either. On the other hand a niagara might not lose every time against a xebec but it can never really win.

Requin player possible outcomes: Sink the enemy, the enemy escapes downwind, or you run upwind.

Non Requin player possible outcomes VS Requin: Get sunk, the Requin escapes upwind, you escape downwind.

The Prince Neufchatel had a similar outlook as the Requin, but a prince can only engage <5% of ships it sees effectively. Mercury and below, which is super rare. Even a squad of princes will not be able to take on larger ships easily. Requin can defeat obliterate any other 6/7th rate except the Hercules, and two of them are a serious threat to almost any ship in the game. A ship large enough to carry the firepower to match them loses its ability to maneuver with the nimble, incredibly accelerating Requins who can decrew in one or two raking broadsides then board (with 6th rate boarding mods and 400+ crew) while the Requin itself seems to resist grape shot surprisingly well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Capt Aerobane said:

Several people have pointed out that a fir/fir prince neufchatel could always evade combat almost as effectively as the Requin (to justify the requin's performance and focus on other aspects of it)

However is a problem with this argument, a fir fir prince is ineffective against anything but the most basic 6th and 7th rates, even a decent wood type prince gets its sails wrecked easily while its armor/planking is basically nonexistent + it can't carry 32 pound carronades and 250 crew as standard. I've beaten them off with decent brigs many times. A xebec on the other hand only requires one mod slot and no knowledge slots to go into fucking plaid upwind, and can do so with competitive wood types, allowing it to NOT ONLY evade anything with ease but also shred other 6th rates and gang up on anything else.  It encourages "ganking" by enabling it. It's almost impossible to force a xebec to fight. So why fight a battle you may possibly win when you can wait around and force a non premium scrub ship to fight a battle you can't possibly lose? Xebecs don't win every time but they can never lose either. On the other hand a niagara might not lose every time against a xebec but it can never really win.

Requin player possible outcomes: Sink the enemy, the enemy escapes downwind, or you run upwind.

Non Requin player possible outcomes VS Requin: Get sunk, the Requin escapes upwind, you escape downwind.

The Prince Neufchatel had a similar outlook as the Requin, but a prince can only engage <5% of ships it sees effectively. Mercury and below, which is super rare. Even a squad of princes will not be able to take on larger ships easily. Requin can defeat obliterate any other 6/7th rate except the Hercules, and two of them are a serious threat to almost any ship in the game. A ship large enough to carry the firepower to match them loses its ability to maneuver with the nimble, incredibly accelerating Requins who can decrew in one or two raking broadsides then board (with 6th rate boarding mods and 400+ crew) while the Requin itself seems to resist grape shot surprisingly well.

I agree with Requins being lame, OP, and a game breaker, but your evaluation for the prince is not true being ineffective against anything above 6-7th rates.

BF6D355E756A5729633763D1016C65A13CDB0447

Edited by pit
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Capt Aerobane said:

....

 

Quote

to justify the requin's performance and focus on other aspects of it

not justify -  its to name the real issues not that damn mimimi about i got sunk by xebec

 

What are issues:

  • Spanker sails are bugged on any ship its not possible to dmg them correct. - The thing is on prince only 33%  are spanker sails rest is jib and square sails which get dmg correct xebec is 100% spanker therefore 100% bugged
  • sailforce mods are broken not only on the xebec but xebec is the perfect example
  • accelerating is to powerful on the xebec - sail force mods even increase the issue
  • crew dmg seems broken on the ship
  • thickness combined with hull shape
  • that it can be made of heavy woods and sail force mods still make her sail like fir/fir
  • downwind sailing ability due to sail force mods

What are no issues:

  • that the ship can go upwind and escape square riggers -
  • 32pds carronades
  • her crew count (currently only an issue because she gets almost no crew dmg)
Edited by z4ys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the way everyone says this " in reality' when in reality the xebec carried 8lb guns. So 32 lb Carros are fine.

In reality the xebec could fly up wind and was excellent on most angles.

In reality the xebec could carry up to 400 crew.

The only problem are the mods and the wood types stacking to make it even better.

But that's a game mod.

Why don't people moan about 15 knt bellonas and victory made from fir snd bermuda.

None of this happened in 'reality.'

All mods should be nerfed so they cannot make super ships, not the other way round.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

14 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

The Requin = OP ship 
Why?
1. from 45 ° to 150 ° with the elite pirate refit you can sail in battle at 15.5 knt (even with 80% of the sails depending on the wood used)
2. too much crew to be a 6th rank, so you can board anyone in shallow (also considering that pushing opponents upwind using a Requin is much easier than with any other ship)
3. When they are chained, it seems that they do not suffer the damage that I believe should suffer (wanted or bugs)?
4. When they are demasted they can get their beautiful mast out of nowhere in a few (the other ships usually recover only a part of the tree).
5. Requin has too much hull, in reality it was a particularly fragile ships when compared to others of their own class.
6. They mount 32 pders carronades! So in addition to being ships basically designed for boarding, in reality they are also discreet combat ships (always considering other ships of the same class).
7. Requin arms and disarms the sails too quickly, making the chase almost useless and a possible (as improbable) chain edging.
8. To chase a Requin you need at least two Requin armed with long guns and with the ability to navigate alongside. In fact the Requin has two excellent long guns on the stern (laser guided) and unfortunately four useless (in order to chase) 2 pd cannons on the bow.
Result:
The Requin sail almost practically undisturbed in the reiforcement zones, in the hunt for new players or traders who prefer safer sea routes. They can even afford the luxury of attacking in reinforcement zones, considering that reiforcement ships are very little, both for firepower and sailing profile.
All this is not good for the game because:
1. New players complain.
2. The old players now almost exclusively use Requin and / or Hercules (what do we do with all the other beautiful ships that you have made available to us?). Soon they both will be unhappy because frankly it is very boring to play only with one/two ships when you have much more disposable.
3. There is no antagonist to the Requin, even the Hercules can be pursued and not only by other Hercules!
Suggestion
1. Nerf its disproportionate sailing qualities, as for all other ships, the faster you want to be more delicate you will be in combat
2. No 32 pders carronade, put 24 pdrs or less
3. Less hull

Why do you constantly moan about (If you fit this and if you fit that like elite pirate refit mod)

The vast majority of players will never even have an elite mod let alone fit it to a DLC ship!

You really are trying to fix two DLC ships which elite players are modding up to unrealistic levels. A standard  xebec and Hercules are fine and balanced.

Nerf the ridiculous mod bonus which can be stacked to create super ships.

If they change these DLCs now that they have been tested and paid for then watch the negative reviews shred the games reputation even further and forget about future DLC sales.

Change the mods across the board not the ships because an elite few don't like them or abuse them.

Edited by Flash Jack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Flash Jack said:

 

 

Why do you constantly moan about (If you fit this and if you fit that like elite pirate refit mod)

The vast majority of players will never even have an elite mod let alone fit it to a DLC ship!

You really are trying to fix two DLC ships which elite players are modding up to unrealistic levels. A standard  xebec and Hercules are fine and balanced.

Nerf the ridiculous mod bonus which can be stacked to create super ships.

If they change these DLCs now that they have been tested and paid for then watch the negative reviews shred the games reputation even further and forget about future DLC sales.

Change the mods across the board not the ships because an elite few don't like them or abuse them.

The standart xebec is not fine compared to the other shallow ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

The standart xebec is not fine compared to the other shallow ships.

It really needs to be a 5th rate like the herc to be honest and that would fix a lot of the issues not counting pirate refit issues.  The 4-5th rate mods and a ship knowledge will tone it’s stats down a bit from folks super stacking things like crew.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

It really needs to be a 5th rate like the herc to be honest and that would fix a lot of the issues not counting pirate refit issues.  The 4-5th rate mods and a ship knowledge will tone it’s stats down a bit from folks super stacking things like crew.

Yes that would work to.

Its the mods and their selection and stacking that changes theses ships into super ships.

If Mods were nerfed across the board would bring more skill and balance to the game. 

I fear there are to many greedy players with white knuckles grasping onto OP mods. That's the real issue these DLC ships have brought up. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Flash Jack said:

A standard  xebec and Hercules are fine and balanced.

They aren't. Just read this thread. I agree though, it shows once again the power of the mighty mods. I don't really know what stacking in this case means. 

Concerning your "only elite players will get elite mods": a standard pirate rig refit costs what, not even 100k i guess. It works perfectly on Xebecs. No Elite Mod necessary. And the droprate of sealed bottles is not higher for players with much gold or experience. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spent quite some time in the last days chasing Xebecs with a P Frigate.

They were afraid to fight me, and I coundn't catch them up wind. What an annoying waste of time/gameplay.

Even thought about buying the DLC to be able to fight them Xebec against Xebec, but let's face it, are we all going to be sailing Xebecs from now on? Should I buy a DLC in order to be able to fight an specific group of players who already spent money buying this ship? What if another ship comes down the road, replacing the Xebec, should I go and buy the new DLC too to be able to keep playing?

Sorry guys, I've seen this story before, and I didn't like the ending, it's like virus spreading.

 

Edited by Jim Tiberius
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, z4ys said:

What are issues:

  • Spanker sails are bugged on any ship its not possible to dmg them correct. - The thing is on prince only 33%  are spanker sails rest is jib and square sails which get dmg correct xebec is 100% spanker therefore 100% bugged
  • sailforce mods are broken not only on the xebec but xebec is the perfect example
  • accelerating is to powerful on the xebec - sail force mods even increase the issue
  • crew dmg seems broken on the ship
  • thickness combined with hull shape
  • that it can be made of heavy woods and sail force mods still make her sail like fir/fir
  • downwind sailing ability due to sail force mods

What are no issues:

  • that the ship can go upwind and escape square riggers -
  • 32pds carronades
  • her crew count (currently only an issue because she gets almost no crew dmg)

You didn't mention one of the biggest problems. The DLC grants a new ship every 24 hours. Ship crafters need to play to get resources and assure the conditions to craft new ships regularly, and therefore replace what is lost. For these DLC ships one doesn't need to do anything. One buys two DLC's, Le Requin and Hercules, and get two ships per day with no effort what so ever. 

This is my opinion potentializes all issues associated to the ship itself.

Three more ship DLC's and we don't need to bother about playing anymore. Clain the DLC and go to OW hunt.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Jim Tiberius said:

You didn't mention one of the biggest problems. The DLC grants a new ship every 24 hours. Ship crafters need to play to get resources and assure the conditions to craft new ships regularly, and therefore replace what is lost. For these DLC ships one doesn't need to do anything. One buys two DLC's, Le Requin and Hercules, and get two ships per day with no effort what so ever. 

This is my opinion potentializes all issues associated to the ship itself.

Three more ship DLC's and we don't need to bother about playing anymore. Clain the DLC and go to OW hunt.

the cd already takes into account how long ONE player would need to get all mats and to craft it (regarding lh generation of a single player).

Quote

Claim the DLC and go to OW hunt.

Isnt that what everyone wanted more pvp?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Isnt that what everyone wanted more pvp?

Really ? may be 30 percent of population which is a generous guess, are warm to PVP :)

People wanted somewhat fair pvp (they always forget or do not know yet, the player matters a lot), but this ship DLC is bullshit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

Really ? may be 30 percent of population which is a generous guess, are warm to PVP :)

People wanted somewhat fair pvp (they always forget or do not know yet, the player matters a lot), but this ship DLC is bullshit.

I will not disagree. And fair is always relative^^ but people (some) were asking for more pvp and less eco and less need to sail.

Now they can grab a ship sail to xy and fight without regret. Fight die repeat. Isn't that a great moba concept? 

But Ofc we no havew a new meta so everyone else has to use it as well because imported ships are easy to get and don't have the touch of losing something. 

But in the end more pew pew if it's meaningful? To some maybe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Redeem DLC ship.

Sail out and fight until it sinks. No retreat, no surrender. Win or die trying.

Redeem the otherDLC ship.

Sail out and fight until it sinks. No retreat, no surrender. Win or die trying.

Finish gaming session pleased with the best age of sail combat in the market. Forget deep operational-strategic levels.

win win GG

We get what we ask for :) 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Isnt that what everyone wanted more pvp?

For this specific purpose Naval Action Legends would probably work better, but I guess the "arena style" game didn't make much sucess, other wise we would be playing it.

Do we want pvp? We sure do, but do we want only it?

Edited by Jim Tiberius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Jim Tiberius said:

For this specific purpose Naval Action Legends would probably work better, but I guess the "arena style" game didn't make much sucess, other wise we would be playing it.

Do we want pvp? We sure do, but do we want only it?

i am not defending it. Just saying we should be careful what we wish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, z4ys said:

i am not defending it. Just saying we should be careful what we wish

No worries mate!

Your point is valid. To be 100% honest, devs can't listen players too much, other wise this game will never be released.

Player population in games are always composed of a complex mix of regular and seasonal players. If devs keep changing the game based on player opinion, this will offcourse be influenced by seasonal players, and the common opinion will make the game unrecognizable after one or two years. This can be either good and bad.

Believe me, this is already happening to this game for what I could read in this forum!

In order to move forward priorities need to be rationalized. I liked when devs focused in the UI, it's an important part of the game and is moving forward. DLC's by the other hand weren't really a need now, unless the game needs funding, but I would much ratter be paying money for paint jobs.

Game industry is in an interesting situation today. It's popular and generates lots of money, but player feedback became a "monster" which needs to be taken under control. I'm sure there are lots of people who bought the DLC defending it, and I won't blame them, they paid for it, but they need to remember that if they can pay for a Le Requin, there are people willing to pay for a gold grade Connie, Bellona, Wasa, Victory, or what ever comes. We shouldn't go this way...

 

Edited by Jim Tiberius
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just don't see the xebec problem your talking about. We are a still sailing our normal ships. It's hercs we are fighting against not xebec. Xebecs are pretty useless to be honest unless you play their game which we don't. They are weak to damage. Their rudder gets hit a lot, they turn shit, they can't stop. If they try and board and fail they get ripped to pieces AND sink quickly.

 However they can escape and they Can pick their fights.

Also they were tested by us all and tried before release.

You can't really blame the devs??

 

Edited by Flash Jack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/19/2018 at 8:49 PM, Flash Jack said:

I just don't see the xebec problem your talking about. We are a still sailing our normal ships. It's hercs we are fighting against not xebec. Xebecs are pretty useless to be honest unless you play their game which we don't. They are weak to damage. Their rudder gets hit a lot, they turn shit, they can't stop. If they try and board and fail they get ripped to pieces AND sink quickly.

 However they can escape and they Can pick their fights.

Also they were tested by us all and tried before release.

You can't really blame the devs??

 

The way the ship is being used is annoying.

There is no ship in game capable of fighting it in the same conditions, so you will either waste time chasing them with a Frigate, or get sunk in a 6th rate. Unless you want to spend money and buy the DLC.

It’s becoming like a freaking mosquito buzzing in the ear, which respawn every 24 hours.

Are they weak on damage? Not with Carrons.

Shit turn and can’t stop? Not with manual sailing. Plus it turns against the wind like a cutter!

No match for Herc? Break the Herc bow and board it, easy to do.

Edited by Jim Tiberius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×