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Give us back meaningful leeway. Current state of leeway is " is it ingame?" Ships show no difference in leeway. The only way to notice leeway is by sailing backwards. Why we got such a nice and unique feature just to get it nerfed into oblivion?

I agree looting is an issue and i guess one of the reasons it got nerfed, because people cant think ahead and struggle.

Change looting mechanic first and revert leeway to a meaningful state

Rework looting.

  • ship has to be stationary for distance looting
  • the further away the ship that should be looted the longer it takes to get hold access.
  • close looting remains the same (current sate)

Mechanic background

  • Every ship that has row boats (even they are not modeled) could get access to distance looting
  •  make it even a perk for points or let it be a default mechanic
  • select ship (by clicking on it or have it in view)  and press x, esc cancels looting progress

 

Example for distance and time:

 

Instand loot

20180531224650_1.thumb.jpg.67f8adbb5f4ab044b087fde762f77b09.jpg

 

 

10 sec till access to hold

20171105125721_1.thumb.jpg.f0b48e8f9165361f41bbe76a4f637dcd.jpg

 

 

30 sec till access to hold

20171118221234_1.thumb.jpg.dbace6a2b8ae3507f56518519fbcb725.jpg

Edited by z4ys
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No thanks.  Not many people wanted or enjoyed leeway.  If we’re going to suspend belief and allow players to magically regrow masts 5x every battle I think we can do without leeway hurting too much in the realism Dept.  

I do like the launches retrieving loot thing though.  

Edited by Christendom

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Leeway was amazing and was the last real thing that made me feel like I was actually sailing a boat. From the perspective of an actual sailor of 100 year gaff rig cutters I cannot insist anymore how important leeway is in the strategy of sailing. As banished said finding the middle ground is necessary.

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25 minutes ago, Nelsons Barrel said:

As long as wind changes direction randomly every 15 min, no thanks. 

this needs to be addressed i think. 

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3 minutes ago, admin said:

this needs to be addressed i think. 

What if wind would change all the time slightly, a bit left, a bit right, from time to time bigger change. No weird magic switch every 15 minutes. Make wind feel more natural and wild. Make it free. On top of it give us different wind powers/forces. Strong wind, mild wind etc.

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Just now, Banished Privateer said:

What if wind would change all the time slightly, a bit left, a bit right, from time to time bigger change. No weird magic switch every 15 minutes. Make wind feel more natural and wild. Make it free. On top of it give us different wind powers/forces. Strong wind, mild wind etc.

There is no need for wind to change at all in a battle instance.  Different wind conditions for each battle would be very good.

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4 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

What if wind would change all the time slightly, a bit left, a bit right, from time to time bigger change. No weird magic switch every 15 minutes. Make wind feel more natural and wild. Make it free. ...

That would be a good start.

Quote

... On top of it give us different wind powers/forces. Strong wind, mild wind etc.

Thats a bonus which might lead to bigger ship diversity in grp play (which is good) or lead to even more frustration. But worth testing.

Edited by z4ys
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What banished is saying is ideal and more realistic but incredibly time consuming to code.

Wind does change, wind however does not change 180degrees in direction over the course of 12hours unless a heavy storm front is arriving which is currently not in the game in battle instances. Wind needs some tweaks but back to OP #bringbackleeway 

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Leeway was phenomenal.  That and random wind changes actually gave a reason for land to be rendered into battle.  

Anything that makes me have to think more in a battle other than just “whether my mods are better than the other players”, I’m all for.  

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3 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Leeway was phenomenal.  That and random wind changes actually gave a reason for land to be rendered into battle.  

Anything that makes me have to think more in a battle other than just “whether my mods are better than the other players”, I’m all for.  

the problem was that it was too strong initially. 
based on real sailing reports from a Chapman book on wasa the current leeway is more historical, but it is not profound to have any effect on combat (coupled with the wind changes making it not noticeable at all). 

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5 minutes ago, admin said:

the problem was that it was too strong initially. 
based on real sailing reports from a Chapman book on wasa the current leeway is more historical, but it is not profound to have any effect on combat (coupled with the wind changes making it not noticeable at all). 

Dont forget the game exaggerate a lot in its mechanics. Basing stuff on historical reports is fine but then the whole game would have to be realistic and not parts of it.

So either everything has to be realistic or everything has to be exaggerated. But mixed is not good.

Edited by z4ys
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Leeway and wind orientation variation are a plus.

Less wide angle variation of the wind, no 90º but rather 30º or 40º at most, but with more changes ranging from 3º to 12º, clockwise, counter clock, etc.

So the wind never stops moving around, but also isn't terrifyingly unpredictable on its 90º / 180º turns. ( unless you want to model tidal changes day and night onshore and offshore winds ;) )

 

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2 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I wont remove wind changes every X minutes, it gives more tactical depth to battles.

I wouldn't either, but the way the wind shifts currently is beyond bonkers.

wind shifting to the left or right of it's original course by no more than 45* degrees? I can get behind that. But with wind shifting to the left or right by 90-180* and then by the 40 minute mark the wind is heading in the opposite direction of the start of the battle? I just can't really agree with it

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10 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Dont forget the game exaggerate a lot in its mechanics. Basing stuff on historical reports is fine but then the whole game would have to be realistic and not parts of it.

So either everything has to be realistic or everything has to be exaggerated. But mixed is not good.

I completely agree with this sentiment. Also @admin have you considered talking to current captains/ sailors of the Tall ships that still sail for information on the effects of leeway on a square rigger? I can possibly put you in touch with some via email for such discussions.

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Wind change should be a slow and predictable event. Even wind indicator should show the difference in wind change ex. before 180 deg, now 185 deg + arrow clockwise in the direction it's moving. 

In red would be a previous wind position and in green would be current one. Red would slowly fade away...

QmDbhng.jpg

Edited by Wind
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10 minutes ago, Capt Jubal Early said:

I completely agree with this sentiment. Also @admin have you considered talking to current captains/ sailors of the Tall ships that still sail for information on the effects of leeway on a square rigger? I can possibly put you in touch with some via email for such discussions.

Effects are known and of course we talk to real sailors often (if you believe we must talk to someone - of course you can connect us in PMs). There are also real sailing reports giving specifics on the leeway (e.g. wasa leeway at various speeds is well documented). 
There is one more minor thing: in reality leeway is corrected by rudder (for example keeping it at 2 degrees to the right), but our rudder does not work this way and to we do not want to change the rudder at this stage as it might ruin change everything. 

We might need to exaggerate for gameplay though. 

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1 minute ago, admin said:

Effects are known and of course we talk to real sailors often (if you believe we must talk to someone - of course you can connect us in PMs). There are also real sailing reports giving specifics on the leeway (e.g. wasa leeway at various speeds is well documented). 
There is one more minor thing: in reality leeway is corrected by rudder (for example keeping it at 2 degrees to the right), but our rudder does not work this way and to we do not want to change the rudder at this stage as it might ruin change everything. 

We might need to exaggerate for gameplay though. 

That should not be a problem.  As we are being set to Port (for instance) then we can simply steer a course slightly more Stbd. Something we do all the time in the real world for tidal set.

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19 minutes ago, admin said:

Effects are known and of course we talk to real sailors often (if you believe we must talk to someone - of course you can connect us in PMs). There are also real sailing reports giving specifics on the leeway (e.g. wasa leeway at various speeds is well documented). 
There is one more minor thing: in reality leeway is corrected by rudder (for example keeping it at 2 degrees to the right), but our rudder does not work this way and to we do not want to change the rudder at this stage as it might ruin change everything. 

We might need to exaggerate for gameplay though. 

Thing is you guys do not have wind strength, so leeway simulation is wrong no matter what. 

Min wind - min sail

Min wind - med sail

Min wind - Full sails

---

Med wind - min sails

Med wind - med sails

Med Wind  - Full sails

---

Full Wind - Min sails

Full wind - Med sails

Full wind - Full sails

Am I wrong here?

 

Edited by Wind

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8 minutes ago, admin said:

Effects are known and of course we talk to real sailors often (if you believe we must talk to someone - of course you can connect us in PMs). There are also real sailing reports giving specifics on the leeway (e.g. wasa leeway at various speeds is well documented). 
There is one more minor thing: in reality leeway is corrected by rudder (for example keeping it at 2 degrees to the right), but our rudder does not work this way and to we do not want to change the rudder at this stage as it might ruin change everything. 

We might need to exaggerate for gameplay though. 

I assumed you would have. I think exaggeration is the key with a lot of things especially with what you say about the rudder usage.

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I fought a battle in an Agamemnon running from a bucentaure, bellona, and two snows yesterday.  It was absolutely impossible to hold my best point of sail.  I would settle on it, and ten seconds later the wind had shifted and I was forced to drop speed and correct.  It was nonstop, constant movement, and resulted in all of us doing circles for an hour.  A ridiculous battle.  That is not how wind works.  I'm okay with wind shifts, but they should be much less frequent and sometimes nonexistent.  Perhaps once in ten minutes is okay, but even then it's a little much imo.  They shouldn't continue in one direction.  

Also, what's the point in correcting for leeway to round a spit of land when the wind will shift and you can easily clear it on a new point of sail?

Edited by Sir John

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4 minutes ago, Sir John said:

I fought a battle in an Agamemnon running from a bucentaure, bellona, and two snows yesterday.  It was absolutely impossible to hold my best point of sail.  I would settle on it, and ten seconds later the wind had shifted and I was forced to drop speed and correct.  It was nonstop, constant movement, and resulted in all of us doing circles for an hour.  That is not how wind works.  I'm okay with wind shifts, but they should be much less frequent and sometimes nonexistent.  Perhaps once in ten minutes is okay, but even then it's a little much imo.  They shouldn't continue in one direction.  

agree somewhat. Wind change reduces leeway to a minor visual effect and while brining variability to battles also gives too much flexibility to battle making long term planning less useful (e.g your current wind mistakes will be corrected in X mins). 

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