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Naval Action needs a good story.

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4 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

 

Reminder: main end of the game is the naval combat between players.

 

Players that we don't have. Why we don't have players? ...

Edited by Wind

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Just now, Wind said:

Players that we don't have. Why we don't have players? 

You tell me. Why not ? Is it the lack of story or the unwillingness to engage in combat versus other players ?

I like the SP games like Sea Dogs and Corsair. They surely have a ton of storyline.

nikolai-valuev-01.jpg

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1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

You tell me. Why not ? Is it the lack of story or the unwillingness to engage in combat versus other players ?

 

I will point few things:

Current NA Missions - no variety, limited, no connection to anything including main story line, no unique drops. Flat and repetitive. Player will stop after a week. 

What it should be - Main story line with dedicated missions and rewards that grow with player character. Secondary missions randomly placed in ports and somewhat connected to the main story line. They all have a chance to drop rare mods, ships and unique items. They all provide reputation and send players around the world to do things like - sink, capture, retrieve, cause damage, collect, loot, transport etc..

Daily quests that earn you points. Points can be exchanged for Chests (drop items, gold etc). 

Story line chapters - 1st chapter (base mission chapter is free and is the main story line with at least 50 missions). All expansion chapters are paid content. 

Achievements that earn you points. Sink 1 player get 100 points. 1000 points = 1 Bellona. Reach rank X get 100 points. Complete daily quest get 100 points. Endless possibilities. 

Most importantly game will not function without a proper reward system that we still do not have. 

My main concern is that longer it takes to make things happen the less chance we have for success. In the end, I am glad that Developers understood all this in the last 4 paragraphs from this post. 

 

Edited by Wind
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24 minutes ago, Christendom said:

The problem heth is this doesn’t need be a one or the other type of game.  It could be both very easily.  This game, at least up until the tutorial, just drops new players directly from the steam cart and into the sandbox with little to no info.  It’s overwhelming and unfortunately most players just are not patient enough to figure it out on their own.  I know when I started I poured through YouTube to find instructional videos, most of which even back in June of 2016 were outdated and their creators already gone.  I’m pretty sure the only reason I stuck around that first week or 2 was directly because of Jeheil and Olavs videos.  

Most games have more of an expanded tutorial and starter quests to get people’s feet wet.  Our current tutorial is good for the combat aspect, but I think the OW and it’s ever changing set of rules and systems are far more daunting and most likely the lack of info explaining it is what puts off most new players.  Figuring out what to do I’m combat is easy.  Getting to that point.. not so much. 

We badly need a new player quest line where they sail from one point in the map, collect something or tag something, dock up, put up a building and contracts and then haul it back.

Indeed it could, If the Nations each had an ultimate objective, a strategic aim if you like, then the sandbox component could be what the nations clans do tactically to achieve that aim. It would I think provide minimal direction toward an outcome, give players something other than sailing about hoping to find a fight that is invariably a gank-fest in someone's back yard.

Such a framework would I think provide reason to sail out, be it for trade to support a general war, or new players fulfilling roles that they can learn from like reconnaissance, coast guard patrol's and fleet support until they have a solid grounding in how things actually work,  eventually becoming skilled veterans,  while the veterans  carry the offensive/defensive RVR actions, the pb's, screening with support from the newer players, after all every successful veteran had to learn to sail, how to fight, how to set up their ships for the roles they are to perform, to get to where he or she is, it is that knowledge and how it's used that defines how well any team works, so, supporting and retaining new players is vital to every clan, Nation and the game itself.  

Fighting for the sake of fighting gets stale very quickly, fighting for a cause is far more rewarding. I am sure many Americans and British did not want a war in 1776, it was, as many wars are, the result of many factors, the rewards were different for both factions, and the French intervention held rewards for France, as it did for America, to the detriment of Britain who were also at war with the French at that time.

Knowing why you are fighting, what the objectives are, and the rewards for success are the incentives that drive any combat game, Equally the desire to keep what you have, to gain more than you had are also incentives, powerful incentives that drive the will to win, In part that is what the game lacks.

Perhaps, when the game is closer to being complete, such ideas could be implemented, there is much to be done yet, and with the right incentives Naval Action can be all the Devs and players hope for, and so much more as well.

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The game is gorgeous, but a bit too elitist in my opinion. Its as if new players are simply needed as fodder  I think pvp marks conquest marks and other currency simply excludes people who refuse to be forced down a certain play style road. It should be fine to forge a non pvp career on the pvp server, by that I mean trading exploring and of course defending yourself when needed without feeling forced to go out kill for the sake of it. Different nations could offer rewards for different play styles. Would like to see rare loot only drop from rare  NPC spawns like named mobs in other games rather than sell in some pvp mark shop. So good game for me but I would like to see more content added rather than constantly messing with the existing stuff.

 

 

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A bread crumb event, where captain has to visit several ports gathering information about a certain location of a certain special event to take place on a certain day. Sure. Information puzzles that lead to "historical o'brian type of battles", not a mere simple click&reward system. I mean, even against AI at challenging odds, not the overpowering road most seem to take ( 1st rates fighting belle poule fleets ;)

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31 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

A bread crumb event, where captain has to visit several ports gathering information about a certain location of a certain special event to take place on a certain day. Sure. Information puzzles that lead to "historical o'brian type of battles", not a mere simple click&reward system. I mean, even against AI at challenging odds, not the overpowering road most seem to take ( 1st rates fighting belle poule fleets ;)

O'Brian is simply a gold mine and it's priceless in game industry and in the right hands ;) the amount of content you can create just from few of his books is enormous. 

Edited by Wind
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Just now, Wind said:

O'Brian is simply a gold mine and it's priceless in game industry and in the right hands ;) the amount of content you can create just from few of his books is enormous. 

A battle. It all ends in a challenging battle. A truly gruesome and very hard battle. Very hard.

#devsyoumadeimpossibletowinwtf

#nowedidntwesimplymadeaobrienbattlewhereyoumustbeheroic

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Yea the problem is that the game is just fighting to fight.  No clear defined goals other than owning ports and territory, which most players don’t even seem to be interested in.  

Hence my repeated pushes to make the game diverge into a clan based game with only a couple nations.  Players who want to do the nation thing could have storylines and generated events like randomized wars or objectives.  Players who simply want the RVR sandbox join an outlaw faction and then have at it.

We keep running into issues where forcibly making folks do one thing or another to progress in the game.  Tying 1st rates to Vic marks was just a stupid way to force people into RVR they didn’t want to do.  

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4 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

A battle. It all ends in a challenging battle. A truly gruesome and very hard battle. Very hard.

#devsyoumadeimpossibletowinwtf

#nowedidntwesimplymadeaobrienbattlewhereyoumustbeheroic

Not only that, but simple mission like - Hit enemy Powder room during the heavy Storm chase. (Hint* located between 6th -7th guns). Simple and fun huh?

 

Edited by Wind

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While in control of the full ship ? Sure :) Gimme SailAway NA with your ideas. IL-2 age of sail career mode weeeee

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3 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Yea the problem is that the game is just fighting to fight.  No clear defined goals other than owning ports and territory, which most players don’t even seem to be interested in.  

Hence my repeated pushes to make the game diverge into a clan based game with only a couple nations.  Players who want to do the nation thing could have storylines and generated events like randomized wars or objectives.  Players who simply want the RVR sandbox join an outlaw faction and then have at it.

We keep running into issues where forcibly making folks do one thing or another to progress in the game.  Tying 1st rates to Vic marks was just a stupid way to force people into RVR they didn’t want to do.  

I pointed this many many months ago, player will not do things if you don't clearly show the reward and explain the objective. Visual design is very important. 

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2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

While in control of the full ship ? Sure :) Gimme SailAway with your ideas. IL-2 age of sail with a career mode weeeee

My ideas will hit kickstarter one day, you will see... ;)

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Just now, Wind said:

My ideas will hit kickstarter one day, you will see... ;)

Sure. Less mmo click heroes, more simulator with career please. o7

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5 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Sure. Less mmo click heroes, more simulator with career please. o7

I can spend hours of debate on that. I know where money is. For example Train Simulator has to release new game every year or sell train models in order to survive. I do not wish the same for NA. 

Edited by Wind

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I know where the money is :) 

iracing and fsx

no discussion there, by millions

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There SHOULD be a story which is including the Tutorial. Story will start in the PVE server.

So the story starts, you are being shown all the aspects of the game, ui/map/manuel sailing/fighting/boarding/game mechanics like in reinforcement zones, out of green zones/RVR.

So all the parts of the tutorial should be fitted into some sections of the story. The endurance exam, final exam should be the important part of the story, will be introduced with cut scenes made with in game engine. At the end of the story, captain will be master and commander rank, with the loot and money he has earned, he will be starting the SANDBOX.

I would say player should be starting the story with some delivery missions, which he learns about ui and map, he should be in a 7th rate. He will get used to the game, and learn trading. At some point he will be somehow starting his navy life, few combat missions with 7th rate. In 7th rates will be basic combat, he learns about cannon types, sail, hull and crew damage, cannon modes like front fire, locked focus etc. He learns about repairs and looting. He will have some outpost and farms. He will learn about fishing and sealed bottles.

Afterwards he promotes and starts 6th rates, having the chance to fight in a snow and heavy rattlesnake afterwards. When on 6th rate, he learns about manuel sailing, yards, depower and tacking into wind. He also learns about demasting, manuel sailing. He may have some knowledge on ship woods, refits, knowledge slots. He learns the boarding game and capturing a ship. He also gets some knowledge about ship crafting. He is given an opportunity to craft his snow  ? after learning about woods. Resources will be supplied to him to craft his first ship. In story he has a chance to do the endurance exam starting and finishing with in game engine created cut scenes.

Approaching end of story, he will be participating in a port battle with npc ships where he learns about RVR. Finally he will have the final exam with a story setting. And he will be promoted to Master and Commander, giving him chance to start the SANDBOX on PVP server, option to choose his nation. He will have his loot (repairs and gold) and some ships (one 7th rate, one 6th rate and a cerberus) ready at the his main outpost. So he knows about the game now, he will be eager to discover the PVP world.

If this becomes alive, this game will rock ! Players spending some 20-40 hours on a story with just in game engine plus some nice cartoonish 17th century themed screens, I mean just like a comic book style, not so big job. The players will be amazed, because when those kind of games are finished, the game is finished, here you will have option to continue forever, and live your own story.

After the story current tutorial will be still available, and the game needs an encyclopedia or reference book which includes all the knowledge about the game.

Look how Nick made the text part which is easy and still great.

 

 

 

Edited by AeRoTR
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13 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Also trends show that majority of players nowadays "hate" text based storyline in games - "too much reading" - is the most common negative topic in many rpg's ( which are absolutely stunning if one loves a good story and well developed world )

n sum - how much energy, development time and business effort is worth to put into something like this ? Would all captains enjoy having their careers/liberty curated by the machine and being given only the ship they needed for the task ? Or do they like the liberty of doing whatever they want ?

I agree with you when you define story as a text. A good story should be something that player builds - eg. a set of archievements and tasks he can perform to get to know the game better, which give him eg. some nice graphic and 1-3 sentences of a story.

It's best if player can decide which part of the story he wants to fulfill and which ones he can leave out - eg. it would be bad to force everyone to trade. Still, it would be good to incentivise everyone to try everything. A nice story behind this is a great way of doing this.

That's just a more advanced type of tutorial, less formal, getting people into more advanced aspects of the game - clan, RvR, trading etc.

Edited by vazco
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Instead of a story line, I think it would be cool if the devs replicated some historical battles for the player to play (with AI or friends) as "challenge missions". But I think they need to finish OW stuff first before adding stories/other content. 

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For the tutorials, the player starts out as the XO on a naval ship tasked with protecting a merchant vessel.  They have to follow the Captain's orders while learning the controls. 

During the mission, the captain takes some grape to the head, and the player takes command for the final exam.

The merchant that the player saves offers to hire them to captain for their trading fleet if they ever decide to leave the navy. The admiralty of the nation commends them for their bravery, promotes them, and offers them command of a naval vessel if they decide to stay on.

The player can then choose to captain the naval ship, and recieve orders from the navy, work for the merchant tycoon and recieve trade missions, or turn them both down and strike out on their own.

The naval missions would relate the story of the nation's war effort. Trade missions would relate the story of helping build the merchant's trade empire.

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22 hours ago, Hethwill said:

n sum - how much energy, development time and business effort is worth to put into something like this ? Would all captains enjoy having their careers/liberty curated by the machine and being given only the ship they needed for the task ? Or do they like the liberty of doing whatever they want ?

Make that optional. Myself, I hate storylines I have to follow mandatorily. So people who love to be guided by a story with missions pick it up and everyone else does sandbox as before.

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48 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Make that optional. Myself, I hate storylines I have to follow mandatorily. So people who love to be guided by a story with missions pick it up and everyone else does sandbox as before.

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@Wind

 

I do like the storyline idea but keeping the plot line closed in an MMO can be a mine field. The starter or rookie it can be a lot easier to do. In fact, for my PvE ladder to PvP starter idea (ref: Idea:Norfolk nNoob goes Gank-ing...!) some form of storyline via missions would take place.

At some point I will flesh that out...

The other way is via the Mission Delivery system that could evolve a storyline. Remember already it could hold the data for multiple delivers via one client.

Story lines need not be (and shouldn’t be) solo affairs. The energy input in writing and testing a theme would be quite large I’d bet, but would add value no doubt about it...

Imagine just offering a player 5 messages to solve. 1 Unlocks 2 unlocks 3 that follows a story arc over distance and products and a test of skill set... That’s a small one...

 

Norfolk.

 

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There is a depth and richness to the story created by player interactions that would be very difficult to achieve with in-game restrictions.  The open world sandbox has limitless opportunities.

My character has experienced a facinating journey during the last couple years.  A story of; assistance and treachery, friends and foes, gifts and ganks, being hopelessly lost and pinpoint timely arrivals.  The outcomes are never certain and I have little idea what will happen around the next cape.

I cannot imagine the Devs creating anything close.

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3 hours ago, Macjimm said:

There is a depth and richness to the story created by player interactions that would be very difficult to achieve with in-game restrictions.  The open world sandbox has limitless opportunities.

My character has experienced a facinating journey during the last couple years.  A story of; assistance and treachery, friends and foes, gifts and ganks, being hopelessly lost and pinpoint timely arrivals.  The outcomes are never certain and I have little idea what will happen around the next cape.

I cannot imagine the Devs creating anything close.

That leaves us with 499 active players + you. I wish it was that simple. 

Edited by Wind

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