Why not have sailing in the OW?

[Niels Terkildsen]

6 hours ago, Batman said:

I would recommend to pour a bottle of salt water over your head every thirty minutes while staring at the screen for hours for total immersion.

That deals with the "immersion", Great! But what about the entertainment? I mean, for me immersion is part of the entertainment, but I know that is not true for everyone.

[Macjimm]

1 hour ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

But what about everyone who bought the game and quit after spending hours of sailing without crossing anyone or any fair encounter, realizing they spent hours doing nothing but looking at their ship with no action nor rewards, to the point leaving the port may not be worth it as it could mean wasting hours doing nothing. This kills the much needed lone captains, traders and explorers. OW sailing actions should be added after the ui & econ rework.

 Thank you Baptiste, 

Your words are enlightening.  I never considered that many of the players that are unable to find balanced competitive PvP blame it on OW sailing.  They desperately want to fight someone and feel like they are forced to travel about aimlessly.  Reminds me of a hunter who is running about in the forest frantically wishing he could find a deer and begins to hate the trees and shrubs.  But trees are not the problem.  The solution is learning to find deer quickly, not in removing all the shrubs.

Your second point is very valid.  Creating a working economy is essential.  There is very little point traveling anywhere if viable trade is not feasible.  So far I'm content with very limited goals, but I imagine most are not.

[Slim McSauce]

1 hour ago, Macjimm said:

 Thank you Baptiste, 

Your words are enlightening.  I never considered that many of the players that are unable to find balanced competitive PvP blame it on OW sailing.  They desperately want to fight someone and feel like they are forced to travel about aimlessly.  Reminds me of a hunter who is running about in the forest frantically wishing he could find a deer and begins to hate the trees and shrubs.  But trees are not the problem.  The solution is learning to find deer quickly, not in removing all the shrubs.

Your second point is very valid.  Creating a working economy is essential.  There is very little point traveling anywhere if viable trade is not feasible.  So far I'm content with very limited goals, but I imagine most are not.

OW isn't always about hunting. Sometimes navies know exactly where each other are and they want to fight. Hence people pvping around capitals and patrol zones almost exclusively.  That part of the game has been neglected, we see how successful it is even in it's limited state.

[EdWatchmaker]

I for one would love to see this. I like sailing in the OW more than anything else. I remember before the sails luffed and shivered, I remember before the OW storms, I remember before the birds and how thrilled I was as each of these things was implemented. It could be tried out on the PVE server. Added content that the PVE server has needed for quite awhile. 

I know that some would not like this, perhaps most on the forums. But I would point out that the percentage of players active on the forums is dismally low and in my humble opinion cannot truly represent the mind of the players as a whole. In my limited time to play, at the moment, I pay attention to the amount of players on line, the amount of battles taking place and the combat log. I may be quite wrong in my assumption but what my eyes tell me is that the overwhelming amount of players are just going about their business. Playing the game and enjoying it. Otherwise why would they even be there?

And let us not get into "But the player base has fallen through the floor." thing. It is spring, bordering on summer, in the Northern Hemisphere and people are out and about doing all sorts of things. Then there are all the new games that have come out or are coming out that people are going to play. This game is still in Alpha and there are a lot of things to still try. My opinion is that it'll do just fine. No I'm not being a fanboy. I'm just an old man that loves the sea, sailing and adventuring around with my valiant Seadog Wade, making a story in my head.     

Fair sailing all.        

[Cabral]

7 hours ago, Christendom said:

It’ll be nice for about 5 mins.  I like to just point my ship in a direction and then alt tab on reddit until I get there.

 It's a pity you never cross with me on OW while alt tabbed, I love to intercept and spoil movie sessions and reddit readings while they are AFK.

[Juan Navarre]

1 hour ago, EdWatchmaker said:

I know that some would not like this, perhaps most on the forums.

Well, I'm new here, so I have no notion of how the majority of the forum may feel as a whole. So far on this thread, however, those who want some real sailing in the open world seem to outnumber those who don't by two to one.

[Capn Rocko]

No

[Jean Ribault]

This isn't a sailing simulator, I couldn't get on board with this.  Rocko summed it up nicely.  You're thinking of a different game here.

[Juan Navarre]

14 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

This isn't a sailing simulator, I couldn't get on board with this.  Rocko summed it up nicely.  You're thinking of a different game here.

I realize that it isn't a sailing simulator. In fact, the lack of simulated sailing in the game (and the corresponding potential for there to be simulated sailing in the game) was rather the crux of my suggestion. 

Perhaps I was thinking of a different game. Maybe you know where I could find it?  The game I was thinking of has all this realistic sailing stuff based on historical 18th century maps, hull models, sail plans, speeds, turning and heel performance:
 

Quote

Enormous open world – Large open world, recreated based on 18th Century maps, historical harbors, positions, and town names. We do not believe in the various modern hand-holding markers, thus player position is not shown on the map: you will have to navigate yourself using compass, sun or landmarks. PS. battles are instanced to allow extremely complex sailing and fighting calculations for 50 ship battles. 

Freedom – Build ships, trade, sink enemies of your nation. You can attack anyone almost everywhere. Remember that every action could have consequences. So don't attack everyone - or you will become a pirate. Conquer almost every port in the Caribbean, but remember! other adventurous captains will try to ruin your plans.

Beautiful ships – Accurate hull models, sail plans, guns, internal upgrades, historical speed, turning and heel performance. Ships from small cutters to large 100+ gun 1st rates will allow the player to experience every possible role of the Age of Sail period. 

Realistic sailing – Advanced wind and physics model provides for realistic portrayal of ship’s performance in the age of sail. Yard angles, ship angle to wind, fittings and ship condition affects speeds and turning rates. Correct tacking, boxhauling, clubhauling and other elements of the age of sail sailing are possible. Hidden ship characteristics will allow to gradually uncover potential of the vessel – every ship in game will be unique.

Naval Action Steam Store Page

[EdWatchmaker]

I rest my case. Job well done Juan. Gratias. 

Fair sailing all.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

5 hours ago, Jean Ribault said:

This isn't a sailing simulator, I couldn't get on board with this.  Rocko summed it up nicely.  You're thinking of a different game here.

How having the option to do stuff during ow sailing would deteriorate / reduce what you like in the game at this state ? 

You made yours the statement telling the concept of OW as the boring time between what you like in the game, and devs made it more acceptable to you by allowing to bypass it via tp/ freetown patrol zones, tow to port & turbospeeds.

Resulting 300 players are still here, and no one can be met in the ow.

And no improvement regarding the playerbase.

 

I am not advocading in favor of the removal of patrol zones, tow to port & tp. It works. But vets must remember not everyone already have an outpost at every strategic point of the map, and any new player will still have to experience the terrible experience of  boring, dull, lame aspect of wasting time watching your ship move from one point to another, fighting the clockwise wind. 

 

It saddens me so many vets can't understand how it is a huge obstacle in the way of any durable gain in population and viable release. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Baptiste Gallouédec

[Raf Van Boom]

Instanced battles = bad, bad, bad. Probably too late to change now anyway. And if that's the case just leave OW as is, add autopilot!

[Jean Ribault]

1 hour ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

How having the option to do stuff during ow sailing would deteriorate / reduce what you like in the game at this state ? 

You made yours the statement telling the concept of OW as the boring time between what you like in the game, and devs made it more acceptable to you by allowing to bypass it via tp/ freetown patrol zones, tow to port & turbospeeds ...

 

It saddens me so many vets can't understand how it is a huge obstacle in the way of any durable gain in population and viable release. 

 

There's no question more content is needed for this game.

However you make an awful lot of assumptions there about what I like or dislike in this game.  Unfortunately your assumptions are all wrong.

I have never once used a tow to port, in fact I don't even know how it works.  I don't like the concept, so I don't use it and have never tried it.  I don't know about freetown patrol zones either.  I generally don't visit freetowns.  And I certainly don't have any turbo speed garbage, I despise all magical upgrades and feel like they have separated the player base.  Please don't go assuming what you have no idea about me or my playstyle.

Additionally, the OP did not present this as "the option to do stuff during ow sailing" as you twist it around to say.  You are deliberately changing the suggestion's words to bolster your argument that is an already wrong assumption about my playstyle.  You double-downed on your wrong response.  I was replying to my own view of the actual words of his suggestion, not your view of it twisted around.

Further, I've been reading for over two years how most players have not wanted to spend massive amounts of time sailing between two points.  OW is compressed you know?  The OP did not suggest that his methods were "optional", so my comment is taking all those discussions into account as well.  It is already time-consuming enough to sail a massive world, and believe me I do enjoy it.  But a 2 hour trip across the map where I then might run into reefs and rocks and tear my ship apart and don't even accomplish what I set out to do in the limited playtime I get?  No thanks.  Your goal of getting new players would be defeated at least with me, because I would never play such a game.  It's not vets who don't understand this, unfortunately you don't.

The other game by the way is any sailing simulator.  I didn't say I invented or programmed it, or play it.  I said it's just not this one.  However this one still does have a pretty realistic combat model, and from what I have seen and read that was the intention of the development team.

[Jean Ribault]

6 hours ago, Juan Navarre said:

I realize that it isn't a sailing simulator. In fact, the lack of simulated sailing in the game (and the corresponding potential for there to be simulated sailing in the game) was rather the crux of my suggestion. ...

 

That's only in the OW.  It's a portal for entering an RVR combat system and an economic/trade game (which is surely poor I readily admit).  When they added the OW, seems to me it was an afterthought to the simulation game of combat.  If simulated sailing was an optional and additional thing, nothing would be wrong with that.  Adding that piece of it as optional content is not something that is bad.

 

6 hours ago, Juan Navarre said:

...
Perhaps I was thinking of a different game. Maybe you know where I could find it?  The game I was thinking of has all this realistic sailing stuff based on historical 18th century maps, hull models, sail plans, speeds, turning and heel performance:
...

 

 

I believe you already have those things in the combat model, or pretty close to it.  Not sure how much more you want that piece of it developed, unless you are just looking to also make that piece part of the OW?  Again, optionally adding a sailing game and not mandating what is originally proposed as obstacles to the OW would be additional content.

[Macjimm]

2 hours ago, Jean Ribault said:

When they added the OW, seems to me it was an afterthought to the simulation game of combat.

Jean, you have summed it up very well.  

I like the proposal to add old time authenticity to OW with a few optional sailing features.  To ignore OW development begs the question; Why have it at all?   If NA is a combat simulator, and OW sailing is loathed by so many, why retain OW?   I think that many PvPers would appreciate a teleport-to-nearest-enemy button.

[Juan Navarre]

3 hours ago, Jean Ribault said:

The OP did not suggest that his methods were "optional",

Sure I did. I suggested a couple different options for people who don't like sailing the OW. I suggested an arena style server where people could have their combat and avoid the OW altogether. I also suggested that folks should be able to let their XO take the helm and auto-navigate to a destination port. 

[Jean Ribault]

Unless you've changed it since, your original post does not suggest optional.  Again, twist it, and that's fine.  But my reply is to your original suggestion.  I assumed you wanted to discuss its merits, sorry.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Jean Ribault

[Juan Navarre]

43 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

Unless you've changed it since, your original post does not suggest optional.  Again, twist it, and that's fine.  But my reply is to your original suggestion.  I assumed you wanted to discuss its merits, sorry.

I made those suggestions over the course of this thread. Your use of the pronoun "his" in reference to the OP indicates that you meant "original poster" rather than "original post".

 Regardless, the OW was meant to be more than just a portal for RvR and trade. It was clearly meant to be a gameplay element:

11 hours ago, Juan Navarre said:

Enormous open world – Large open world, recreated based on 18th Century maps, historical harbors, positions, and town names. We do not believe in the various modern hand-holding markers, thus player position is not shown on the map: you will have to navigate yourself using compass, sun or landmarks. 

As a gameplay element, it could be improved with some sailing content. 

As a portal for combat, it could be improved with a "teleport to combat" button.

Right now the OW seems like it is pretty boring for the sailors and the sport gamers alike.

[Angus MacDuff]

But the OW has to be there for us to hunt each other.  I don't just want a portal to combat.  There is a thrill to hunting the prey and a thrill in sneaking a trader past the wolves.  I agree that OW can be improved with some content, but I also believe that it should remain time compressed to lessen the pain of the long journeys.  That goes against your wish for the realistic sailing attributes.  We need a way to give content to OW without making it painfully long.

[Juan Navarre]

10 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

But the OW has to be there for us to hunt each other.  I don't just want a portal to combat.  There is a thrill to hunting the prey and a thrill in sneaking a trader past the wolves.  I agree that OW can be improved with some content, but I also believe that it should remain time compressed to lessen the pain of the long journeys.  That goes against your wish for the realistic sailing attributes.  We need a way to give content to OW without making it painfully long.

You are quite incorrect. At no point did I suggest that the OW should not be time compressed. In fact, I think the time compression is great, and have said so in this very thread.

What I would like is the sailing mechanics of combat in the open world, and some sailing challenges to overcome, like storms, reefs, rocks, currents etc...

[Killick]

I'm not sure if I can add anything useful to this discussion, but perhaps it's interesting to hear the opinion of someone from a different category. I do not belong to the group of players who has dropped this game and neither to the group of players who is still playing it. I belong to the vast group of people who has never bought the game and never played it. I only know it from YouTube movies and forum discussions like this one. In short, I'm one of the many customers that GL never had.

I have been following the development of NA for years and I have been hoping for it to become the game that I always imagined: a beautiful and immersive simulator of the age-of-sail era that would allow me to feel the thrill of seeing a single sail at the horizon after a long time of sailing and then chasing it in the hope of forcing an encounter – or being chased and trying to outrun the other. Basically what I want is an age-of-sail version of Silent Hunter: single player, realistic ship handling, challenging weather conditions, one giant map, no instances, time compression and – very importantly –  first person view from deck. I have voiced these thoughts several times in the past on the forum.

But with every decision from the devs I have seen in the past years, my hopes of that game ever emerging out of NA have diminished. The chance that I will ever buy the game now is very small. Yet, I occasionally check the forums to see if there are some people that are of the same opinion as me. I am glad to see in this topic that there are.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Killick

[Juan Navarre]

On 6/5/2018 at 9:37 AM, Oberon74 said:

There is a thrill to hunting the prey and a thrill in sneaking a trader past the wolves. 

You mean the thrill of pointing your ship directly at another ship and pressing the attack button?

Wouldn't there be more thrill if you the hunt involved controlling your yards for better turn rate? If getting caught in irons while trying to escape was a real peril? If leading your pursuers into treacherous reefs that you could better navigate with your superior sailing skills and more maneuverable craft was a viable strategy?

 

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

On 6/5/2018 at 10:13 PM, Killick said:

But with every decision from the devs I have seen in the past years, my hopes of that game ever emerging out of NA have diminished. The chance that I will ever buy the game now is very small. Yet, I occasionally check the forums to see if there are some people that are of the same opinion as me. I am glad to see in this topic that there are.

 Don't get it wrong, naval action really offer a superb experience of the trill of being a captain of a sailship.

[Macjimm]

14 hours ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

 Don't get it wrong, naval action really offer a superb experience of the trill of being a captain of a sailship.

I think there are players who would like a game with less distractions and more content.   

NA feels like you are playing an e-sport game.  It's difficult to imagine the genuine age of sail experience.

- Speedboats rocketing  around at unworldly speeds,

- Spaceship style information HUD rather than old world instruments,

- Giant text floating above ports that can never be turned off,

- Teleportation in the 1700s ,

- No deck perspective.  The ship can only be controlled when you are nailed to the mast high above the deck.

- Combat is limited to a little toy boat perspective - a view from the captain's eyes is not an option.

- The tall ship hunt and chase of an old time era has been sanitized from the game to appease players who seek quick combat without waiting.

I can understand players like Killick who want a game that recreates the age of sail.  Where the priority is not as much on impatient fighting, but it is about an experience of standing on a wooden deck a long time ago.

[Angus MacDuff]

You can have a deck perspective.  I quite enjoy bounding along in my Prince at deck level.  It even gives you a feeling that there is a horizon.