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Juan Navarre

Why not have sailing in the OW?

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The OW doesn't seem to let you use yard controls. You can sail directly into the wind without ever ending up in irons.  With sails fully reefed,  you can turn on a dime, regardless of where the wind is coming from. The speeds in the OW far surpass the speeds listed for the ships, and the speeds seen in combat.  

I have seen others mention the tedium of traversing the OW. I imagine much of it has to do with how it involves hardly any sailing skill. Here are just a few things that I think would make travel in the OW a game unto itself.

  • Include the sailing mechanics already present in combat.
  • Reefs and rocks that you can see if you look for them, but will tear your hull apart if you miss them.
  • Planning supplies for your crew. Do you take extra in case you don't get to your destination by the time you had planned? Or do you go with the bare minimum that you can get away with so that you can pack more merchandise into your hull, and risk losing crew?
  • Storms! Outrun them if you can, or reef your sails and heave to. Folks sailing broad reach in a storm under full sails will get torn sails, dismasted, or even sail straight down to the ocean floor.
  • Replace the heading indicator and wind arrow with a simple compass. There are plenty of other ways to tell which way the wind blows already in the game.
  • Ocean currents. Contend with the prevailing currents while navigating. Just because you know which way your ship is pointing, doesn't mean that is the direction your ship is going.
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Just no.

It is intended, that you can sail faster and against the wind so traveling doesnt take that long in OW.

The center of the game is the combat of sailing ships and not traveling with them. All these changes would make the OW just more annoying and time wasting.

Not to mention the huge amount of programming you ask for.

Keep the OW simple.

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One of the least immersive parts of the game is the OW travelling. Unfortunately it's also one of the things you have to spend most time doing.

I've been dreaming of a non-instance game where everything takes place in the current battle sailing mode - but perhaps I'm just a dreamer and it won't work (unless perhaps for a single player game)...

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32 minutes ago, Abram Svensson said:

Just no.

It is intended, that you can sail faster and against the wind so traveling doesnt take that long in OW.

The center of the game is the combat of sailing ships and not traveling with them. All these changes would make the OW just more annoying and time wasting.

Not to mention the huge amount of programming you ask for.

Keep the OW simple.

There could be a arena style server where people just match up for combat, then after combat can immediately match up for another round of combat, thus avoiding the hassle of the OW altogether. Presumably the OW exists because someone thought that it would be fun for someone. I would have fun sailing in it if there was any sailing in it. I know others would as well.

For those who just want immediate combat, and think that travelling in the OW is a waste of time, why mess around with an open world at all?  Why not just go from combat to combat, and leave the OW for people who will appreciate it?

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5 hours ago, Juan Navarre said:

For those who just want immediate combat, and think that travelling in the OW is a waste of time, why mess around with an open world at all?  Why not just go from combat to combat, and leave the OW for people who will appreciate it?

Great question.  There are lots players here who absolutely hate sailing and seek all kinds of ways to avoid it; teleporting, increase OW time compression, tow to port.  We had an arena e-sport style game, but the Devs cancelled it.

I think sailing should be a fundamental part of the game, not just a hassle that we have to endure.  A compass, timepiece, chiplog and sextant would be great tools.  Having a look out to shout out sightings is critical to improving gameplay.  

 

Edited by Macjimm
Speling
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would be totally in favor of this. true (ymmv) sailing around. occasional encounters where you would have to gauge wind, the limited info given by your scope, to engage or evade ... (not that gamey ow tagging minigame and battle instance mechanics/exploits). 

i would even pay extra for this. now, i understand that technical difficulties would be considerable and it even would not be very popular ...

Edited by znôrt
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I would recommend to pour a bottle of salt water over your head every thirty minutes while staring at the screen for hours for total immersion.

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4 minutes ago, Batman said:

I would recommend to pour a bottle of salt water over your head every thirty minutes while staring at the screen for hours for total immersion.

And void yourself while hanging from a tree branch over water.

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9 minutes ago, Batman said:

I would recommend to pour a bottle of salt water over your head every thirty minutes while staring at the screen for hours for total immersion.

Not looking for total immersion, thanks. Just looking for a good sailing game set in the age of sail period.

I believe the game where you just maneuver around and shoot stuff has already been done. What was that game called again? The one where you have a number of weapons you can switch between? 

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I believe you are asking for additions that would please a small niche (in an already niche game).  OW sailing for most of us is a means to an end (combat, trading, etc).  Your proposals are very interesting and I would probably enjoy them for a period of time, but I don't think I would want to do it all the time.  Most times I just want to get there! Similar proposals have come out from the hard core sailing school and while they are attractive to a few, the majority would hate them.  I think this kind of thing, if it ever gets instituted, should be selectable from an options menu.

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40 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

I believe you are asking for additions that would please a small niche (in an already niche game).  OW sailing for most of us is a means to an end (combat, trading, etc).  Your proposals are very interesting and I would probably enjoy them for a period of time, but I don't think I would want to do it all the time.  Most times I just want to get there! Similar proposals have come out from the hard core sailing school and while they are attractive to a few, the majority would hate them.  I think this kind of thing, if it ever gets instituted, should be selectable from an options menu.

I don't understand how sailing in the OW can only appeal to a small niche. This is half of how the game is advertised on steam.

Quote

Enormous open world – Large open world, recreated based on 18th Century maps, historical harbors, positions, and town names. We do not believe in the various modern hand-holding markers, thus player position is not shown on the map: you will have to navigate yourself using compass, sun or landmarks. PS. battles are instanced to allow extremely complex sailing and fighting calculations for 50 ship battles. 

Freedom – Build ships, trade, sink enemies of your nation. You can attack anyone almost everywhere. Remember that every action could have consequences. So don't attack everyone - or you will become a pirate. Conquer almost every port in the Caribbean, but remember! other adventurous captains will try to ruin your plans.

Beautiful ships – Accurate hull models, sail plans, guns, internal upgrades, historical speed, turning and heel performance. Ships from small cutters to large 100+ gun 1st rates will allow the player to experience every possible role of the Age of Sail period. 

Realistic sailing – Advanced wind and physics model provides for realistic portrayal of ship’s performance in the age of sail. Yard angles, ship angle to wind, fittings and ship condition affects speeds and turning rates. Correct tacking, boxhauling, clubhauling and other elements of the age of sail sailing are possible. Hidden ship characteristics will allow to gradually uncover potential of the vessel – every ship in game will be unique. 

You would think that the people who "just want to get there" would say to themselves, "Enormous open world? Realistic sailing? Tacking, boxhauling, and clubhauling? Accurate sail plans with historical speed, turning and heel performance? This game sounds like it's made for a bunch of nautical history nerds! Why waste my money?"

Meanwhile, us nautical history nerds show up, and we say, "I heard there would be some realistic tacking, boxhauling and clubhauling in an enormous open world recreated based on 18th century maps. Why on earth am I motorboating around at 25 kts with a heading indicator and electric wind meter? Wouldn't it be cool if that stuff on the store page was actually in the game?"

Is it really demanding an unreasonable level of immersion to suggest that a game billing itself as having realistic sailing in an enormous open world actually have realistic sailing in an enormous open world?

If you folks don't like any of the realistic sailing elements advertised, what on earth inspired you to get the game? 

Edited by Juan Navarre
Punctuation.
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1 minute ago, Juan Navarre said:

I don't understand how sailing in the OW can only appeal to a small niche. This is the majority of how the game is advertised on steam.

You would think that the people who "just want to get there" would say to themselves, "Enormous open world? Realistic sailing? Tacking, boxhauling, and clubhauling? Accurate sail plans with historical speed, turning and heel performance? This game sounds like its made for a bunch of nautical history nerds! Why waste my money?"

Meanwhile, us nautical history nerds show up, and we say, "I heard there would be some realistic tacking, boxhauling and clubhauling in an enormous open world recreated based on 18th century maps. Why on earth am I motorboating around at 25 kts with a heading indicator and electric wind meter? Wouldn't it be cool if that stuff on the store page was actually in the game?"

Is it really demanding an unreasonable level of immersion to suggest that a game billing itself has having realistic sailing in an enormous open world actually have realistic sailing in an enormous open world?

If you folks don't like any of the realistic sailing elements advertised, what on earth inspired you to get the game? 

I don't disagree with anything you have said, but the reality is that most people on this game don't want to spend their hours actually doing the work of sailing between two ports.  That's a sailing Sim.  As I said, an options menu with different difficulty settings for OW is the answer IMHO.  Much like what we had in Silent hunter (im actually a submariner and setting up a shot using the historical model was a big kick for me).  The level of difficulty that you have suggested would be max, and perhaps you would get more xp for accomplishing a journey at that level.

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1:1 timescale scenario would be interesting in a 1700 - 1720 confined scenario based off bahamas only, as an example. And it could work. But that's not NA but a completely different game :) .. who knows what future might bring. GL devs love age of sail.

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@Juan Navarre could you do 2 things for me,

 

1. Add tags to this or is will never be seen by the devs (if they take any notice at all)

 

2. Please let them introduce the basics like an actual UI and get the tutorial right, befor asking for extreme stuff like this,

 

otherwise a very cool idea not that most would appreciate it as they complain about OW all the time and how long it takes to go anywhere 

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2 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

I don't disagree with anything you have said, but the reality is that most people on this game don't want to spend their hours actually doing the work of sailing between two ports.  That's a sailing Sim.  As I said, an options menu with different difficulty settings for OW is the answer IMHO.  Much like what we had in Silent hunter (im actually a submariner and setting up a shot using the historical model was a big kick for me).  The level of difficulty that you have suggested would be max, and perhaps you would get more xp for accomplishing a journey at that level.

An option menu with different difficulty settings sounds fine to me. A real sailing sim would have realtime sailing, so it might take you literally 100 hours or more playing the sim to get from La Habana to Ponce. I think sped up time is cool, but enemy ships shouldn't be the only challenge at sea.

I am just honestly baffled that suggesting realistic sailing in a game that highlights realistic sailing as a core feature would encounter such resistance.

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3 minutes ago, Juan Navarre said:

An option menu with different difficulty settings sounds fine to me. A real sailing sim would have realtime sailing, so it might take you literally 100 hours or more playing the sim to get from La Habana to Ponce. I think sped up time is cool, but enemy ships shouldn't be the only challenge at sea.

I am just honestly baffled that suggesting realistic sailing in a game that highlights realistic sailing as a core feature would encounter such resistance.

The realistic sailing that is advertised does not specify OW and the sailing in battle instances is more complex (granted still not to your standards)

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17 minutes ago, Juan Navarre said:

 

I am just honestly baffled that suggesting realistic sailing in a game that highlights realistic sailing as a core feature would encounter such resistance.

I agree.  I expected to find lots of people who enjoyed sailing and was very surprised to find such strong opposition to it.  After years of listening to to the hate towards realism and immersion, I have accepted that suggestions to make long distance travel more interesting will not be received favorably.  It seems that there are lots of very impatient gamers who seek a fast path to competition, cannon fire and ship destruction.  From what I read in the forums, those of us who are looking for age of sail authenticity are silly extremists.

 

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It would be nice indeed. Sail control (trim) during storms would be required else damage to sails could happen. It's sad to see sail animation is almost absent, NPCs do 360 turns without acceleration impact, ships during storm does not tilt from side to side and wind does not play tricks on ship physics. All this is missing from OS.  

Edited by Wind
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It’ll be nice for about 5 mins.  I like to just point my ship in a direction and then alt tab on reddit until I get there.

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7 hours ago, Juan Navarre said:

There could be a arena style server where people just match up for combat, then after combat can immediately match up for another round of combat, thus avoiding the hassle of the OW altogether. Presumably the OW exists because someone thought that it would be fun for someone. I would have fun sailing in it if there was any sailing in it. I know others would as well.

For those who just want immediate combat, and think that travelling in the OW is a waste of time, why mess around with an open world at all?  Why not just go from combat to combat, and leave the OW for people who will appreciate it?

Yeah, well there were:.... NA: Legends..... unfortunately (and for various reasons) not enough players to convince Devs to keep it going.

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3 hours ago, Oberon74 said:

The realistic sailing that is advertised does not specify OW and the sailing in battle instances is more complex (granted still not to your standards)

Ah, a sea lawyer! There is the immersion I was looking for!

How silly of me to imagine that the sailing and the open world would be at the same time. I don't know what I thinking.

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1 hour ago, Christendom said:

It’ll be nice for about 5 mins.  I like to just point my ship in a direction and then alt tab on reddit until I get there.

@Cetric de Cornusiac had a brilliant suggestion about having Crews. Implement that at the same time and let your second in command have the helm while you go to reddit. It could go beyond just pointing it in a direction, they could navigate around landmasses and make AI pathfinding decisions like the rest of the AI ships until you take command again.

Edited by Juan Navarre
Add tag.
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50 minutes ago, Juan Navarre said:

Ah, a sea lawyer! There is the immersion I was looking for!

How silly of me to imagine that the sailing and the open world would be at the same time. I don't know what I thinking.

Wow, I've never actually seen sarcasm that drips...well played sir!

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Definitely something i would like very much to have in NA.

I do remember when i first sailed on the OW to question why the game had such an arcade sailing.

This and another question i had. Mind that i used to play Uncharted Water Online and there i would sail from Europe to China, a journey taking about 4 to 6 hours each leg and depending on the stops. In this we had to manage and make decisions on something i did and still do miss in this game. We had to manage the water, food and amunitions for the journeys. This and choosing how many crew for each vessel.

A trader could chose the minimum crew to max the profict and reduce expenses in salary (i would imagine pirates do no pay salary, instead should share the loot of the raids) and water and food consumption. this would have the down side of taking the risk to be a easy prey for a pirate due to the low crew number.

A captain aiming for battle could choose the full crew. More expensive and less days at sea but better fit for battle.

 

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 Vocal people here seems to reject any suggestion about improving ow time, with the argument "this will kill the playerbase" but maybe the 300 players still active are those who can live with the few pvp/pve, multi tp & alts, rare pb & afk sailing and don't want their world to change.

 But what about everyone who bought the game and quit after spending hours of sailing without crossing anyone or any fair encounter, realizing they spent hours doing nothing but looking at their ship with no action nor rewards, to the point leaving the port may not be worth it as it could mean wasting hours doing nothing. This kills the much needed lone captains, traders and explorers. OW sailing actions should be added after the ui & econ rework.

 NA right now is much more niche than a game like Virtual Regatta, there is room to attract & keep naval enthusiasts into NA, as its not taking the path of an Eve successor, and it's already the best age of sails themed game in the market.

Do it, make something of the ow to give it a place in term of gameplay, not just the boring time between potential fun.

Edited by Baptiste Gallouédec
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