suggestion Simple action sounds.

[Hethwill]

Bell as the ship is being tagged, sure.

[Angus MacDuff]

6 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Bell as the ship is being tagged, sure.

By then it was too late.  He reacted after being tagged. 

[Wind]

59 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Bell as the ship is being tagged, sure.

Spotters were on duty 24/7 (all navies). You can't allow players to ninja take ships like that. It's against history. There should be a spotter sound + sound when attacking/tagged.

If enemy is on the horizon it should trigger an early bell or shout warning. If player is AFK then he is Dead, but if player is browsing web while sailing he will jump back and give you a nice fight if he is sailing a warship. On the other hand if sinking AFK player is a big achievement and is considered a kill then we are on different boats here. 

@adminI've read many books and what I found was a ship got close (miles) to the enemy before they saw her, but not a single case where warship would ninja sail broadside to broadside and attack with total surprise. 

At least allow player to stand up and fight and not just stab him in the back and take all. Where is fun here? (players who were afk attacked usually quit the game after, this is a fact from previous games and long time research). 

You understand that 90% of players will not sit and watch sea for 4 straight hours. World is too big and facts tell their stories. It's impossible and as we can see game suffers greatly from too realistic features or lack of tools for early warnings. 

Naval Action is striving to be a very realistic game, but yet ignores very important historically accurate facts that would with no doubt benefit population. 

P.S. Developer makes NPCs turn and run, but they won't provide warning sounds for players who can do the same? (How can NPCs have a spotter, but players can't?) Add warning sound and let the real chase begin. Chase that would last days like back in the good old days. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Wind

[Wind]

10 minutes ago, Sir John said:

What do you mean by 'really close?'

Have you heard of 'hull down?'

It is true that a trader might be less adept in this field, however any lookout in a man o' war would likely be able to spot a ship and have a guess at what she was when she was still invisible to those on the deck itself.  

I sailed on the Lynx replica myself, made it up the mast and I assure you that a lookout with a glass and a fine eye can spot a ship miles away.  I happened to practice this very strategy when I sailed away from Lynx on my own sailboat.  I rappelled up to the top spreaders and was able to identify Lynx among the ships next to her in her Nantucket anchorage with only topmasts in relatively clear view. 

I've read about sailors identifying nationalities of ships by the cut of their tops'ls and of sailors distinguishing between British and French ships during the later Napoleonic Wars by the color of their sails.  They believed a lighter color indicated a newer ship, and therefore a Frenchman.  My point is, professional navies did spot ships miles away and could accurately predict what they were.

Most here will say you are wrong even though they clearly know they contradict historical accuracy. Sail Ho! warning sound is a must. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Wind

[Hethwill]

1 hour ago, Wind said:

P.S. Developer makes NPCs turn and run, but they won't provide warning sounds for players who can do the same? (How can NPCs have a spotter, but players can't?)

You make fair points, but this one totally puzzled me. What do you mean ? AFAIK they placidly keep sailing in a straight line... same as afk players.

[Wind]

32 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

You make fair points, but this one totally puzzled me. What do you mean ? AFAIK they placidly keep sailing in a straight line... same as afk players.

I had multiple cases where I am in my Essex clicked on NPC Trader, all of the sudden NPC does 180 and speeds away. Not sure if it got fixed or not. This happened to me twice around Tumbado. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Wind

[Hethwill]

Just now, Wind said:

I had multiple cases where I am in my Essex clicked on NPC Trader, all of the sudden NPC does 180 and speeds away. Not sure if it got fixed or not. 

Ah yes. Ain't evading, is just they suddenly change their course *shrugs* upon reaching a designated point in their pattern.

[Wind]

12 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Ah yes. Ain't evading, is just they suddenly change their course *shrugs* upon reaching a designated point in their pattern.

but it makes no sense, why would the turning point end half way between ports? and why traders loaded with goods have turbochargers and able to outrun a frigate? LGV with cargo can outrun teak Essex?

When NPC ship makes turn there are 2 factors that are absent here:

-Speed drop (Realistically when ship is turning 180 you will see at least 50% speed drop).

-Acceleration (Realistically when speed drop happened it takes some time to recover it's max speed, ex - 0 to 60 in 5 sec)

NPC makes 180 turn with 0 speed loss, acceleration is not effected and even uses speed boost to take off. 

Please fix it. Any maneuver hurts speed and it should be the same on OS.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Wind

[Hethwill]

I think it is dynamic, as AI pieces just do their patterns "at will" in their matrix, not predetermined routes all the time.

You can have synchronized AI dance as well, with 3 fleets separated a bit doing the 180º swing.

[Jean Ribault]

16 minutes ago, Wind said:

I had multiple cases where I am in my Essex clicked on NPC Trader, all of the sudden NPC does 180 and speeds away. Not sure if it got fixed or not. This happened to me twice around Tumbado. 

 

They do it all the time.  It has nothing to do with your tag, it is total coincidence.

[Wind]

2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

I think it is dynamic, as AI pieces just do their patterns "at will" in their matrix, not predetermined routes all the time.

You can have synchronized AI dance as well, with 3 fleets separated a bit doing the 180º swing.

So you think all its normal? including no speed loss...

[Jean Ribault]

Didn't say anything about speed loss.  AI turning about is normal.  Just stay in the OW enough and observe, you will see it many times.  It simply has nothing to do with AI having lookouts.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Jean Ribault

[Wind]

8 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

 

They do it all the time.  It has nothing to do with your tag, it is total coincidence.

I feel like we are working on a totally different point here, but here are few things they can do:

@adminKeep everything as is, but add a wider NPC turn arc with -50% penalty (when making a turn) + speed recovery time (acceleration) 

Current NPC turn when end point reached. 0 speed loss, 0 acceleration.

Proposed turn when end point reached. Nice and round with -50% speed penalty. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Wind

[vazco]

1 hour ago, Wind said:

and why traders loaded with goods have turbochargers and able to outrun a frigate? LGV with cargo can outrun teak Essex?

The simple answer is that AI can't outrun you, you're always a lot faster (I believe you have a 50% speed bonus now, in the past it was around 25% - not counting your speed upgrades)

It's like with repair mods - people believe they're an issue and that they are OP, even though noone uses them as they're useless 

Edited June 1, 2018 by vazco

[vazco]

7 hours ago, Sir John said:

It is true that a trader might be less adept in this field, however any lookout in a man o' war would likely be able to spot a ship and have a guess at what she was when she was still invisible to those on the deck itself.

I agree that a warship would probably have good spotting ability, your arguments and arguments of others convinced me.

I had experience mostly with yachts, sailship charters and "sunday sailors" who sail a few weeks per year and spotters tend to make a lot of mistakes on such cruises. 

Regardless, having a spotter sound in my opinion would be bad. Imagine AI ships all around you and a single enemy hidden in a lagoon, away from your immediate sight. Then you hear a spotting sound. 

Imagine a PB fleet coming to a PB with the wind from an unexpected position, and 20 spotting sounds indicating their arrival. 

Imagine a lone hunter and an AFK trader hearing a sound when he shows up on the horizon. In reality hunter wouldn't show his colors until a last moment. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by vazco

[Juan Navarre]

6 hours ago, Wind said:

Explain it to Devs and other realists. 

I don't know where you get the idea that it needs to be explained to realists. The people who expressed opposition talked about how it would "ruin gameplay" by limiting the ability to perform a coup-de-grace on AFK players.

To quote vazco: "Historical correctness is useless if it ruins the gameplay."

Doesn't sound like much of a realist philosophy to me. As a realist myself, I am all for the idea of lookout calls. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Juan Navarre

[Captiva]

This would seem to be a fair way to implement a "Sail Ho" alert should the developers choose to do so:

1.The alert is disabled for all ships sitting still in the water with sails down. This would aid the stealth of hunters at sea. The moment sails are raised, the alert is again activated.

2. The alert is also disabled if a ship is within visual range, regardless of sails being up or down, but is shielded from view by any land mass. The moment the ship is visible from behind the obstruction, the alert is again activated.

[vazco]

40 minutes ago, Captiva said:

2. The alert is also disabled if a ship is within visual range, regardless of sails being up or down, but is shielded from view by any land mass. The moment the ship is visible from behind the obstruction, the alert is again activated.

This can't be done due to technical reasons. You don't know when a ship is hidden from sight, and calculating this would be probably impossible with the current engine.

Anyway, you seem to forget that any ship could have shown false flag (colors), and you wouldn't know if he's certainly an enemy until you're close enough. To model this, a spotter sound should mention any ship on the horizon, this way becoming extremely annoying and useless.

If it worked from a tagging range, then it would be ok as well. In this case a tagging sound should work even better though.

[Captiva]

4 minutes ago, vazco said:

This can't be done due to technical reasons. You don't know when a ship is hidden from sight, and calculating this would be probably impossible with the current engine.

Anyway, you seem to forget that any ship could have shown false flag (colors), and you wouldn't know if he's certainly an enemy until you're close enough.

If it can't be done due to technical reasons, then so be it. I am not privy to this kind of information.

Until we have false flags in the game, all false flag arguments are moot.

[Juan Navarre]

1 hour ago, vazco said:

This can't be done due to technical reasons. You don't know when a ship is hidden from sight, and calculating this would be probably impossible with the current engine.

Checking for line of sight in Unity is definitely not impossible. 

https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptReference/Physics.Raycast.html

[AeRoTR]

5 hours ago, vazco said:

This can't be done due to technical reasons. You don't know when a ship is hidden from sight, and calculating this would be probably impossible with the current engine.

Anyway, you seem to forget that any ship could have shown false flag (colors), and you wouldn't know if he's certainly an enemy until you're close enough. To model this, a spotter sound should mention any ship on the horizon, this way becoming extremely annoying and useless.

If it worked from a tagging range, then it would be ok as well. In this case a tagging sound should work even better though.

Why not turn on your spotter when away from coast, a set kilometers, or manual activation, spotter on/off. This will be good for both hunters and traders.