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3 minutes ago, Nelsons Barrel said:

Thinking that your own oppinion is worth more than mine is just plain wrong. I intended to level up as fast as possible, you just play brigs. Two different things. Equally worth an expression. I end it here. I stopped playing this game. Playerbase is currently below 400 and at a point of no return.

I don't play brigs only. *chuckles*

But hey man, whatever you say, i can sniff a "my way please" disguised as "all because of newcomers".

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I rather think that at about the rank of Lt.Cmdr  a candidate may sit something like the Submarine Commanders 'Perisher' course, this would give candidates a benchmark as to where they are at in game and accelerated promotion. If the candidate failed he/she could still work their way through the ranks as normal albeit more slowly.

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9 minutes ago, Nelsons Barrel said:

Progress. Some players play games to reach end level/endboss as fast as possible.

There is no endboss. Endgame content a la RvR is even accessible in shallow ships so M&C is more than enough. So why rush?

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2 minutes ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

I rather think that at about the rank of Lt.Cmdr  a candidate may sit something like the Submarine Commanders 'Perisher' course, this would give candidates a benchmark as to where they are at in game and accelerated promotion. If the candidate failed he/she could still work their way through the ranks as normal albeit more slowly.

Love it, but Perisher is misery!!  Dolphin 36.  In other words, you must qualify in order to take the existing final exam (or similar)

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Just now, z4ys said:

There is no endboss. Endgame content a la RvR is even accessible in shallow ships so M&C is more than enough. So why rush?

Because why not? Unlock first rates sounds like a good thing and aim for every new player. Back when you sailed with your basic cutter next to those huge first rates... I guess most of us thought the same way.

But you are unwilling to see above your horizon, both of you, you are not 'most of us.' So enjoy your last 400 players.

 

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3 hours ago, Roronoa said:

Hi everybody,

I've noticed, that people on the help chat almost ask the same questions like "How do i put cannons on my ship" "What is double shot and double charge" "What are combat marks for" "How do i capture ports" etc. In the tutorial the game teaches you the basic gameplay, but imo there should be something, which teaches you the other basics like putting cannons on your ship. My suggestion now is to add a "Help" or "Guide" button to the ESC menu.

...

In this menu the player should be able to read about basic stuff of the game and maybe show it, when the player is playing for the very first time....

 

Yes, I'd support that, kudos on a great idea.  Doesn't have to be overwhelmingly in-depth help to have impact either, that part could be in a final guide.  But a quick reference right there in-game would be great.  +1

 

Reading through the responses in this thread is depressing though, especially when I see a moderator showing out as one of the premium trolls here.  Take to heart that bashing a player for his thoughts even when you disagree doesn't encourage them to keep playing.  Really a bad population problem here in NA, all ideas should be considered.  I like this game, but see my play time is drastically reduced, and I think it's because of this kind of thing.  I prefer to play for enjoyment, which means with fun people.

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33 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

None.  I dislike the immediate promotion to M&S that we have now.  The new player needs to rank up slowly and learn as he goes

 

My son plays a lot of video games.  In every one he is driven to rise as quickly as possible, and before everyone else.  I on the other hand like to take the long tour.  However, I don't tell him he can't play video games because he doesn't fall into my way of play.  That would be silly right?  Same thing here, that's exactly what you're saying.

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2 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

 

My son plays a lot of video games.  In every one he is driven to rise as quickly as possible, and before everyone else.  I on the other hand like to take the long tour.  However, I don't tell him he can't play video games because he doesn't fall into my way of play.  That would be silly right?  Same thing here, that's exactly what you're saying.

I don't think so.  In every game there is a learning curve and the immediate promotion to M&C bypasses that.  Ranking up to LCdr did not take me that long and I learned a lot on the way

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2 hours ago, Nelsons Barrel said:

 Starting that game without a proper clan economy or 5 alts and a lot of planning and afk sailing? Just not possible to play this game casually. 

 

Probably depends on what you mean by causal.

I am well under the likely 20 hours a week the game probably requires and it WAS difficult.

But if you are either trading or crafting you do not need the support of a clan.  I am currently in one but the clan structure does not seem to be particularly friendly to merchants -- it's possible to do without it. 

And you do not need alts.  Or AFK sailing, for that matter.

But yes, you do need to plan.  This is a hard core game.

The only thing that alts are actually necessary for is competing in the air-locked markets for some of the upgrade resources / materials.

So I don't bother.

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It’s amazing to me how many people, even those who supposedly know what all the “newcomers’ want, fall into the trap of thinking this game is about how fast you can sail a first rate.  

If obtaining a first-rate is “end-content”, then one is soon going to be sadly disappointed.  Devs have consistently stated that ship “pew-pew” IS the end content.  

Why some people rush after ships that give you almost zero chance of actual “pew-pew” is beyond me.  

“End-content” is available to all as soon as you pass the tutorial. 

You have a ship.

You have repairs.

You have as much knowledge as 50% of the other players.  

 

Go go out and find some stuff to sink.  

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19 hours ago, Jean Ribault said:

 

Reading through the responses in this thread is depressing though, especially when I see a moderator showing out as one of the premium trolls here.  Take to heart that bashing a player for his thoughts even when you disagree doesn't encourage them to keep playing.  Really a bad population problem here in NA, all ideas should be considered.  I like this game, but see my play time is drastically reduced, and I think it's because of this kind of thing.  I prefer to play for enjoyment, which means with fun people.

Heth isn't trolling him. He just ask him to be honest.

Nelson is hiding his real intentions aka to buy cheap player crafted ship behind the word "newcomer". Heth just points out that a real newcomer would just buy any npc store ship. Because a real newcomer just cares about price and the ship size. Nobody blames Nelson for suggesting a feature that would be indeed helpful. But a feature for vets and not newcomers. So Heth asked him to be honest.

Edited by z4ys
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9 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

It’s amazing to me how many people, even those who supposedly know what all the “newcomers’ want, fall into the trap of thinking this game is about how fast you can sail a first rate.  

If obtaining a first-rate is “end-content”, then one is soon going to be sadly disappointed.  Devs have consistently stated that ship “pew-pew” IS the end content.  

Why some people rush after ships that give you almost zero chance of actual “pew-pew” is beyond me.  

“End-content” is available to all as soon as you pass the tutorial. 

You have a ship.

You have repairs.

You have as much knowledge as 50% of the other players.  

 

Go go out and find some stuff to sink.  

My aspiration was to the 5th rates.  Sure i'll sail a SOL, but its nowhere near as fun.

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1 minute ago, z4ys said:

Heth isn't trolling him. He just ask him to be honest.

Nelson is hiding his real intentions aka to buy cheap player crafted ship behind the word "newcomer". Heth just points out that a real newcomer would just buy any npc store ship. Because a real newcomer just cares about price and the ship size. Nobody blames Nelson suggest a feature that would be indeed helpful. But a feature for vets and not newcomers. So Heth asked him to be honest.

Its not my intention to buy cheap ships. My intention is to get proper ships at all without having to build up my own eco! It's simply unnecessary complicated to get a proper ship in a game that is intended to be a sailingship game. Fir-fir-ships rather sink in pve missions. And its rather frustating to sink and loose all stuff in the first grinding phase there is, when you don't have the money to simply replace your ship.

I can build my own 25 first rate fleet whenever I would like to, I have all the stuff together, just no ship slots left. As stated before I have my alts... So keep your mouth shut if you just throw out wild accusses that don't belong here.

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Just now, Nelsons Barrel said:

Its not my intention to buy cheap ships. My intention is to get proper ships at all without having to build up my own eco! It's simply unnecessary complicated to get a proper ship in a game that is intended to be a sailingship game. Fir-fir-ships rather sink in pve missions. And its rather frustating to sink and loose all stuff in the first grinding phase there is, when you don't have the money to simply replace your ship.

I can build my own 25 first rate fleet whenever I would like to, I have all the stuff together, just no ship slots left. As stated before I have my alts... So keep your mouth shut if you just throw out wild accusses that don't belong here.

no accuses because its actually true

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1 minute ago, z4ys said:

no accuses because its actually true

No, it's not. What purpose would contracts have for me if I can build up my own for rescource prices and actually can keep the good ones?

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1 minute ago, Nelsons Barrel said:

No, it's not. What purpose would contracts have for me if I can build up my own for rescource prices and actually can keep the good ones?

 

3 hours ago, Nelsons Barrel said:

The new player experience is shit, ....

what you describe is not new player experience, its returning vet or vet player experience

Edited by z4ys
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46 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

Reading through the responses in this thread is depressing though, especially when I see a moderator showing out as one of the premium trolls here. 

Going to repeat myself:

Quote

 

A newcomer would get a Snow from the shop, and then maybe a Renomee or a Surprise, they are what ? 40 - 70k sold by NPC shop ?

Mostly a Frigate, for 84k.

Only after a good amount of hours they start picking up details about builds. They start installing the modules, getting books and tweaking their own ships ans scrutinizing the shop for player crafted ones.

That I can tell you with all certainty is what a Newcomer does.

 

And yet again...

This has NOTHING to do with what is being requested. So, we players start to be clear, direct and honest in communication  and get proper responses...or not and getting ignored. Either way I am sincerely tired of reading over and over again the "newcomer" card being used without any solid ground. I am really sorry you didn't read right, especially when community suggestions have been posted before to cover exactly what this "not newcomer" is asking for.

Over and out. Sorry to @Roronoa

~S~ 

 

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Just now, z4ys said:

 

what you describe is not new player experience

Sorry, but, are you kind of slow? I will, just for you, repeat my suggestion.

The problem: A new player joins the game. Passes tutorial and grinds in basic cutter a little bit of money. Now he wants to buy a ship to progress in his leveling effort. His crew count is 400. So he is looking not for a shallow water ship but a frig. Frigs he finds on the market are fir/fir or comparable. Vets tell him not to use those kind of ships as they are not tanky enough to grind in, so called trash. 

The current way: He has to build up his economy to get the ship of his wishes. It's hard, its painfull and no fun for a guy who wants 'Naval Action', not afk-trading simulator.

The solution: A contract system, so he can put it: 'I need a trinc with teak and white oak planking. I pay 600k. ' Should it get fullfilled, he has a proper ship for the money he offered, if not, price was too low or nobody willing to fullfill because of reasons.

Pro: 

-Get more new guys  out to OW with proper ships they wanted to have.

-New market for crafters as they build on order not on wild guessing and hoping it will get bought.

-Economy-realism: No real shipyard builds ships in hoping to sell ships but on ordering contract.

 

Con: 

-Lazy guys will have problems to sell trash ships to players.

 

 

What exactly is not a new player experience in this case? 

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3 hours ago, Nelsons Barrel said:

The new player experience is shit, have you ever checked what kind of broken ships are for sale in the capitals? After that the cannon prices... Starting that game without a proper clan economy or 5 alts and a lot of planning and afk sailing? Just not possible to play this game casually. 

And don't come with 'you can cap a 5th', it's already hard for experienced players to cap a 5th rate with a brig, how should a new player do that without getting sunk and even if, he only captures a shitty frig you can't level with... 

Those FAQs are just the tip of the iceberg! 

This is not the common new player experience. I brought in a few totally new players this past week. To the OP he us correct. Much of the game is not explained and I do find I am explaining a lot of how cannons and such work. But as to ship access and community it has been exceptionally helpful. At least in the Spanish nation, Players have stepped up to help out in ships, starting gold and mission support. Even enemy players help out. I was trying to show a new player how to capture a ship when two pirates jumped into the battle. I simply explained I was training a new player, they wished us well, welcomed them to the game and left us alone. 

All in all I think the instances of difficult player start ups are the results of loner type personalities finding it difficult and the few actual seal clobbers that are out there.

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4 hours ago, Roronoa said:

Hi everybody,

@rediiiI've noticed, that people on the help chat almost ask the same questions like "How do i put cannons on my ship" "What is double shot and double charge" "What are combat marks for" "How do i capture ports" etc. In the tutorial the game teaches you the basic gameplay, but imo there should be something, which teaches you the other basics like putting cannons on your ship. My suggestion now is to add a "Help" or "Guide" button to the ESC menu.

[...]

To return at the topic, i prefer a wiki ingame than "Guide"/"Help", like a lot of other games have. Could be useful for new players to find infos about craft, trade, etc... AND for old players who could find stats for ships, upgrades...

Maybe it's coming with the new UI, who know?! :P

Edited by Nick the cursed
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2 minutes ago, Nelsons Barrel said:

Sorry, but, are you kind of slow? I will, just for you, repeat my suggestion.

The problem: A new player joins the game. Passes tutorial and grinds in basic cutter a little bit of money. Now he wants to buy a ship to progress in his leveling effort. His crew count is 400. So he is looking not for a shallow water ship but a frig. Frigs he finds on the market are fir/fir or comparable. Vets tell him not to use those kind of ships as they are not tanky enough to grind in, so called trash. 

The current way: He has to build up his economy to get the ship of his wishes. It's hard, its painfull and no fun for a guy who wants 'Naval Action', not afk-trading simulator.

The solution: A contract system, so he can put it: 'I need a trinc with teak and white oak planking.

 

A new player does not care about fir fir, his wish is not a teak white oak trinc. Like heth wrote....

Quote

A newcomer would get a Snow from the shop, and then maybe a Renomee or a Surprise, they are what ? 40 - 70k sold by NPC shop ?

Mostly a Frigate, for 84k.

Only after a good amount of hours they start picking up details about builds. They start installing the modules, getting books and tweaking their own ships ans scrutinizing the shop for player crafted ones.

That I can tell you with all certainty is what a Newcomer does.

Everything you describe are problems vets encounter so dont play the "new player card" thats all what we ask for. We dont say your suggestion is shit we are just telling you to be honest.

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12 minutes ago, Nelsons Barrel said:

Sorry, but, are you kind of slow? I will, just for you, repeat my suggestion.

The problem: A new player joins the game. Passes tutorial and grinds in basic cutter a little bit of money. Now he wants to buy a ship to progress in his leveling effort. His crew count is 400. So he is looking not for a shallow water ship but a frig. Frigs he finds on the market are fir/fir or comparable. Vets tell him not to use those kind of ships as they are not tanky enough to grind in, so called trash. 

The current way: He has to build up his economy to get the ship of his wishes. It's hard, its painfull and no fun for a guy who wants 'Naval Action', not afk-trading simulator.

The solution: A contract system, so he can put it: 'I need a trinc with teak and white oak planking. I pay 600k. ' Should it get fullfilled, he has a proper ship for the money he offered, if not, price was too low or nobody willing to fullfill because of reasons.

Pro: 

-Get more new guys  out to OW with proper ships they wanted to have.

-New market for crafters as they build on order not on wild guessing and hoping it will get bought.

-Economy-realism: No real shipyard builds ships in hoping to sell ships but on ordering contract.

 

Con: 

-Lazy guys will have problems to sell trash ships to players.

 

 

What exactly is not a new player experience in this case? 

First off, no true new players are likely to pass that tutorial. They finish the first page and stop. It's simply to difficult unless they have a lot of sailing genre game experience that uses similar control key set up.

Second, I think a contract system is actually a good idea. Though right now you can usually just announce in nation chat "I need a TK/WO Trinc and I'm paying 600k" and someone will respond. If you add in that your new to the game you probably get it for free.

Easiest way for new players to build money in goods trading. More that any other method. You can simply use a basic cutter to score a few trader brigs and starting cash. Cocoa, coffee, Cuban tobacco, black iron wood and historical artifacts are prime dollar goods that buy and sell all over the map. Start there and work your way up. The new guys I'm working with all made their first million gold in under two hours.

 

 

Edited by Estaban De la Vega
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3 minutes ago, z4ys said:

A new player does not care about fir fir, his wish is not a teak white oak trinc. Like heth wrote....

Everything you describe are problems vets encounter so dont play the "new player card" thats all what we ask for. We dont say your suggestion is shit we are just telling you to be honest.

No they are not. Vets built up their own economy or have a clan guy doing it for them. New players dont have their own economy build up yet, that is why they cry so loud when vets kill them. For them everything is expensive and nearly impossible to get. Just look how mighty mo did the first days. He was helped by lots of vets just to get over this phase of game.

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1 minute ago, Estaban De la Vega said:

First off, no true new players are likely to pass that tutorial. They finish the first page and stop. It's simply to difficult unless they have a lot of sailing genre game experience that uses similar control key set up.

Back when I played I talked with many players and recruited a few new guys in that time for a clan. The trick is to send them the link to one of the youtube videos 'how to pass tutorial'. Everyone can pass it with a plan how to.

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6 minutes ago, Nick the cursed said:

To return at the topic, i prefer a wiki ingame than "Guide"/"Help", like a lot of other games have. Could be useful for new players to find infos about craft, trade, etc... AND for old players who could find stats for ships, upgrades...

Maybe it's coming with the new UI, who know?! :P

I like the Kspedia

" The KSPedia is an in-game encyclopedia that covers many subjects of Kerbal Space Program in detail. It is intended to be used by new players, and can be found on the Space Center screen. "

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