Basic Upgrades

[Shrez]

Plz Remove useless Basic Upgrades and check loot dropping it drops always same shit.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Shrez

[Salty Sails]

Basic Capentrytool is shit? Basic Hull Refit is shit? 

If you only fight against NPCs, you don’t need any better upgrades. 

To get better loot, why you not try OW Fleets instaed of your stupid admirality orders. 

[z4ys]

5 minutes ago, Shrez said:

Plz Remove useless Basic Upgrades and check loot dropping it drops always same shit.

Missions + OW AI in reinforcements zones have very high chance of basic upgrades while OW AI outside the zone have high chances on rare stuff

Edited May 22, 2018 by z4ys

[Hethwill]

As a test , to attacks on OW AI fleets with Trinc and Indefatigable, against the odds 1:2 and 1:3, 4th rate fleets [ Constitutions with belles and renos in fleet] dropped 2 encyclopedia parts books plus a mix of everything else.

- Table of Parts of Ships of War

- Notes on Best rudder angles

Sorry to say, but I seldom do pve, and this is but a sample:

- attacked two 4th rate fleets ( main ship + 4 average )

- attacked much stronger BR AI fleet ( 1:2 and 1:3 )

- rewards were really according to the challenge

 

In truth, everytime I went overpowered against the AI the rewards were meager.

[Archaos]

23 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Missions + OW AI in reinforcements zones have very high chance of basic upgrades while OW AI outside the zone have high chances on rare stuff

There is still a very high chance of basic upgrades from OW AI fleets outside the green zone. In fact I have noticed very little change in the drop rate of rare books from doing OW AI fleets in green zone to doing them outside the green zone (and I have done a lot in both areas).

[z4ys]

1 minute ago, Archaos said:

There is still a very high chance of basic upgrades from OW AI fleets outside the green zone. In fact I have noticed very little change in the drop rate of rare books from doing OW AI fleets in green zone to doing them outside the green zone (and I have done a lot in both areas).

like heth wrote fighting with less BR on your sides although increases chance of rare items

[Hethwill]

Just now, z4ys said:

like heth wrote fighting with less BR on your sides although increases chance of rare items

Going to be nasty here, but no wonder many find the final exam hard if one just overpowers AI all the time.

My perception is that, the greater the challenge the chances ( not a guarantee! ) of better rewards...

[Archaos]

25 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

As a test , to attacks on OW AI fleets with Trinc and Indefatigable, against the odds 1:2 and 1:3, 4th rate fleets [ Constitutions with belles and renos in fleet] dropped 2 encyclopedia parts books plus a mix of everything else.

- Table of Parts of Ships of War

- Notes on Best rudder angles

Sorry to say, but I seldom do not pve but as a sample:

- attacked 4th rate fleet

- attacked much stronger BR AI fleet

- rewards were really according to the challenge

 

In truth, everytime I went overpowered against the AI the rewards were meager.

I do not think that is strictly true, although I would like the Devs to confirm. From what I have seen it makes little difference, some of the best drops I have had have come from cutters or privateers that have been in fleet with larger vessels, while the larger vessels in same fleet only drop rum or cannons. It appears to be completely random RNG as to what drops you get rather than their strength relative to you.

I have taken a 3rd rate against 2 2nd rates and come out with no books at all, only rum and cannons or maybe repairs, yet I take the same 3rd rate out against a fleet of 6 or 7 mixed 4th, 5th and 6th rates and I get lots of books, although most are basic worthless books.

I have ground all slots on 1st, 2nd and 3rd rates, purely on OW AI fleets as well as most 4th rates and some others, so I have a good idea what the drops are like and majority of the time I try to go against higher BR just to keep it interesting and to introduce some risk.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Archaos

[z4ys]

regarding challenge: Epic Events - 4th and 1st rates - drop ALWAYS epic stuff. the more challenge the higher the reward.

[z4ys]

2 minutes ago, Archaos said:

 

I have taken a 3rd rate against 2 2nd rates and come out with no books at all, only rum and cannons or maybe repairs, yet I take the same 3rd rate out against a fleet of 6 or 7 mixed 4th, 5th and 6th rates and I get lots of books, although most are basic worthless books.

Can you give BR examples?

Edited May 22, 2018 by z4ys

[Hethwill]

Archaos, it is "chance of drop", not guarantee  

aka. 1% is not guaranteed that you'll win 1 time out 100. You might win all or none even.

[Archaos]

2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Can you give BR examples?

I am not sure of BR values especially recently since you do not see the BR value of the fleet in OW, but I have taken a Bellona out against 2 or 3 large vessels, so a Bellona against a Pavel and 1 or 2 third rates. Or I have taken a Bellona out against 4 mediums and 2 or 3 small, with the mediums being Constitutions, Essex, Belle Poule etc. and the small being Cutter, privateer, snow etc. I guess you could work out the BR from that.

[Archaos]

2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Archaos, it is "chance of drop", not guarantee  

aka. 1% is not guaranteed that you'll win 1 time out 100. You might win all or none even.

I know but what I am saying is that I do not think the chance improves because you are facing higher BR.

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, Archaos said:

I know but what I am saying is that I do not think the chance improves because you are facing higher BR.

Don't know either, except that best chances is 4th rates and strong ( this is confirmed ), but my attempts at it show to me that the results were, by sheer chance, better overall.

Best chances are Epic Events. You are definitely facing terrific odds.

That should be a clue ?

[z4ys]

8 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I know but what I am saying is that I do not think the chance improves because you are facing higher BR.

i used Naval action Wiki to clac BRs

the pavel + 3rd rate = 750 BR

Consti + Essex + Belle Poule + Reno + Privateer  + Privateer = 955 BR

Maybe the amount of ships although count?

[Archaos]

4 minutes ago, z4ys said:

i used Naval action Wiki to clac BRs

the pavel + 3rd rate = 750 BR

Consti + Essex + Belle Poule + Reno + Privateer  + Privateer = 955 BR

Maybe the amount of ships although count?

Number of ships will of course increase the drop chances same as having more tickets in a lottery, but I am still not convinced that you get a better drop rate for facing greater odds (epic missions aside) and I am still not convinced that OW fleets outside the green zone give better drops than inside it (although I think they should). I did a lot of grinding of OW fleets in Belize green zone before the change in RoE and always open battles, but changed to a quiet port outside the green zone when they changed and I have not seen much difference in the drop rates or the rarity of the drops increasing.

[Archaos]

19 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Don't know either, except that best chances is 4th rates and strong ( this is confirmed ), but my attempts at it show to me that the results were, by sheer chance, better overall.

Best chances are Epic Events. You are definitely facing terrific odds.

That should be a clue ?

Equating OW AI fleets difficulty to Epic Mission difficulty is not correct as they are completely different content, same a saying entering a fleet mission solo would give greater drops because of the huge BR difference, the fleet mission would still not give greater drops because it is not programmed to give rare drops.

Can you point me to where it is confirmed that 4th rates and stronger give better chances? Not to disparage your attempts, but you are known for not doing PvE so your random sampling results is questionable at best and not much reliance can be placed on the results. I remember after one of the changes regarding drops and skill books a while back (before green zones) I did a couple of AI fleets in OW and on each I got a copper plating drop, I thought that copper plating was common because of this and installed them on trader brigs, I did not get another copper plating drop for several months after that.

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

As a test , to attacks on OW AI fleets with Trinc and Indefatigable, against the odds 1:2 and 1:3, 4th rate fleets [ Constitutions with belles and renos in fleet] dropped 2 encyclopedia parts books plus a mix of everything else.

- Table of Parts of Ships of War

- Notes on Best rudder angles

Sorry to say, but I seldom do pve, and this is but a sample:

- attacked two 4th rate fleets ( main ship + 4 average )

- attacked much stronger BR AI fleet ( 1:2 and 1:3 )

- rewards were really according to the challenge

 

In truth, everytime I went overpowered against the AI the rewards were meager.

You got some lucky RNG.  I done fleets (OW not missions)of nothing but SOL's (mainly 2/3's) and still got Basic Hull (which I like for trash ships) and other basic stuff.  I have never gotten a rare drop off an OW AI ship only from Epic Events or Ship Wrecks (bottles and the events).   This is why I keep saying the RNG GODS hate me.  While I have had clan mates get several rare mods in a row.   I don't mind getting basic mods in fleet/solo missions from the port as they are meant for new players and casuals, but I SHOULD NOT BE GETTING THEM AGAINST OW SOL's.    

It's honeslty got to a point I don't even feel liek going out and grinding any more.  Hell I don't even loot in hostility missions cause they are almost lal dropping nothing but sail repair and rum (which I bring enough of) and I don't expect them to drop good loot.  Now where I do loot, shallow ships.  The best loot i gotten have been on shallow ships over the past (though I mainly do it for the light hammocks drops).   

I think this week I'm going to pick ships and hit them and document my loot drops.    I know I joke about it, but in clan it's almost a on going joke that the game is coded to give me crappy drop (it's not I just have bad luck).

Edited May 22, 2018 by Sir Texas Sir

[Hethwill]

Just now, Sir Texas Sir said:

You got some lucky RNG.

Yep. It is a "chance to drop", not a guarantee

But someone made a nice post to eliminate chance.

http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/25930-rework-of-admiralty-shop/

 

[Archaos]

The biggest problem is that once you have finished grinding all the slots on all the ships and you still have not gotten all the drops required for the best skillbooks it gets very disheartening to carry on grinding just for the chance of getting that rare drop. I have now eventually managed to complete the rare skill books, but that was only because I traded for some that just would not drop for me, yet others I get multiple drops. (6 drops of Table of parts of ships of war, but no means of directing fire or L'Horizon Balistique)

[Shrez]

17 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/25930-rework-of-admiralty-shop/

Link don't work.

[Hethwill]

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

20 minutes ago, Archaos said:

The biggest problem is that once you have finished grinding all the slots on all the ships and you still have not gotten all the drops required for the best skillbooks it gets very disheartening to carry on grinding just for the chance of getting that rare drop. I have now eventually managed to complete the rare skill books, but that was only because I traded for some that just would not drop for me, yet others I get multiple drops. (6 drops of Table of parts of ships of war, but no means of directing fire or L'Horizon Balistique)

That actually brings up something else, why don't our xp goes towards something else when we max out?  I know they speak of 5 more ranks upon release, but would be nice if it went towards something.  Like Sailing XP should go towards the ships (so traders can level up there trade ships without combat).  Maybe have some part of your xp boost your ship knowledge grinding if your maxed out level.  This way it's easier to grind out slots on ships once you reached max rank in game.  

Same goes for crafting XP, I loved it when you got crafting xp for ships you built. It helped young new crafters level up when they would craft smaller ships.   Maybe make it so when you max out level that gives you something like a boost to your crafting. Cause right now ocne you make what crafting level 35 or something it's the same as level 50.  You get nothing special after you reach the recipt level (this might be changed with new patch some day).

[Havelock]

The funny thing about basic upgrades is that some of them are actually best in their class.

• Basic Hull, only perm to give HP without drawbacks
• Basic Carpenter, only 2nd repair perm
• Basic Sails, only perm for sail HP
• Basic Ballast, very good perm for mortar brigs

You know, Basic Hull, Basic Carpenter and Elephant bow figure is my budget setup for patrol fights...

[Aster]

Or we could make basic upgrades useful and have them used as components to make better versions. Or perhaps one day go down the eve route and have the ai drop components that are needed for crafting, really that should only be done though if we have the player base to support it.