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EdWatchmaker

New Player Retention: Noobs & Seal Clubbing vs Seasoned PVPers

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On 5/23/2018 at 10:43 AM, Rebrall said:
On 5/22/2018 at 9:25 AM, Aster said:

What if the gulf of panama in the pacific (south of Portobelo) was the new player spawning area. Kind of like the rookie zone in the Bahamas we had. Each nation minus the "Hardcore" ones can have a Non capturable port with the safe zone that entails, to teach them as many of the aspects of the game as possible. Maybe a single free port in the center to show how they work as well. The area should follow the old rookie area rules to attempt to limit ganking in this area, and loot should also be basic/repairs. Ships should also be locked to shallow rates. Once the player feels they are ready to leave the new player area they should be able to click a button in port with a warning kind of like abandoning an outpost and be permanently moved to their nations capitol.

What about doing ^^^this to start with allowing you to to get to  Lieutenant Commander rank add a free port that has rolling PB’s ever 2 hours with no towers you join and it splits players between side A & B unless you in a group which puts the group on one side and fill players so the sides are even and add a new mission mortar missions so you get to try them out, also add the tutorial up to the exams to get the reps and the 2 ships 

On 5/23/2018 at 10:27 AM, Aster said:

In EVE players start in a NPC clan, could do a similar thing. IE New British player joins the game and he is automatically in the "Royal Navy" Clan. I think players should be aloud to stay in that clan as long as they like and while in the safe zone they can attack AI and their battles close instantly. Perhaps limiting their ability to engage in pvp would also help. Maybe the players in this "New player" clan would also have to pay part of their earnings like gold/marks in tax to their nation for such protections. When the player is ready they should be able to leave the new player clan and join a player clan, losing the previous protections they had but also not having to pay the "tax".

To do this all activity outside the safe zone I think should be buffed, IE crafting chances, AI drops.

Then add this and enter the final exam which allows you to get to post captain and gives you a tanky indefatigable for missions while in this AI clan max rank would be commodore you have to find a true clan or go create a clan to progress to top rank  

edit: doing the exam does not give the post captain rank but rather unlocks it.

@Eleazar de Damas what I’m saying is if you utilize the map bellow portobello for new players up to the LC rank with the tutorial from the first two pages ie tutorial and the first lot of exams, once complete they get the two ships + reps to there redeemables which should only redeemable once you move into the top half the map and into your designated nations capital, then you can go all the way up and not inc post captain using asters 2 nd suggestion with the ai clan at this point you should be confident and competent enough to do the final exam and unlock post captain and you get your self a heavy ship such as the indefatigable, then you get stuck at commodore until you find or create your clan to get the top rank, also over night I had a thought we should really add ai on your side for pve missions especially fleet mission atleast they are doable for newer options or hav the options to have them, 

 

30 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

ut this isn't a PvP only server.  We have two servers folks.....

Caribbean which is a PvP/PvE server.

PvE Only (which has zero PvP).

Folks keep trying to think this is a PvP only server and it is not.

I agree it’s not pvp only it is both, that being said there is two extremes in effect here extreme pvpers (everyone must pvp 24/7) and extreme pve’rs ( I need a huge green zone you must not attack me past this imaginary line and In this zone here) that are trying to push both sides of there play, if you play on a pvp capable server be prepared for pvp at any time, also pvpers need to recognize that the pve’rs are 9/10 building those nice ships you have and paying your ports you want so protect them 

 

Edit: I’m with @Sir Texas Sir on the gulf should be the dedicated pve zone with the addition to still be tagged but can refuse the fight only issue is it will be abused, but this is life everyone will always look to gain the advantage so there is nothing you can do about it 

Edited by Rebrall
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2 hours ago, Rebrall said:

Edit: I’m with @Sir Texas Sir on the gulf should be the dedicated pve zone with the addition to still be tagged but can refuse the fight only issue is it will be abused, but this is life everyone will always look to gain the advantage so there is nothing you can do about it 

If a safe zone for new players was implemented, I would rather see it be in a different instance/server like @EdWatchmaker suggested. That way there would be zero chance of being abused by anyone. Maybe once they pass the tutorial or reach a certain rank, then they can spawn into the Caribbean server. Then maybe they could be automatically added to a training clan like @Aster or myself mentioned.

That's about as comprehensive as it can get and there is zero chance of exploitation. 

Edited by Capn Rocko
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37 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

If a safe zone for new players was implemented, I would rather see it be in a different instance/server like @EdWatchmaker suggested. That way there would be zero chance of being abused by anyone. Maybe once they pass the tutorial or reach a certain rank, then they can spawn into the Caribbean server. Then maybe they could be automatically added to a training clan like @Aster or myself mentioned.

That's about as comprehensive as it can get and there is zero chance of exploitation. 

I fully see your point and can’t argue against it neither do I think it’s a bad idea either but I guarantee no matter how experienced players are there going to cry about pvp still 

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Eighteenth/nineteenth Century warfare was renowned for it's voluntary conventions, especially at sea, these were the unwritten rules that governed warfare some of which still exist, for example enemy combatants were rescued if it was safe to do so and the rescuing ship could accommodate them. Captain Hans Langsdorff of the KMS Graf Spee earned a great deal of respect for the rescuing of survivors and his good treatment of those he saved as late as 1939.  Among those conventions was that no Captain of a ship of the line would engage a ship smaller in rate unless the lesser rated ship opened fire first, it was considered to be an ungentlemanly act and respected by all sides in the Napoleonic war at sea.

While such notions are for the most part neglected in todays society, such acts were considered to be civilised behaviour during the time this game is set, indeed a Captain who broke such conventions could find themselves beached on half pay or even unpaid, ostracised from civil society. Such was strength of society back then, it is why charges of behaviour contrary to good order and discipline, bringing the service into disrepute, and conduct unbecoming an Officer and Gentleman are among the  highest number of General Courts Martial cases listed today.

Perhaps rather than attempt to force a solution through mechanics we should look to a solution based on the unwritten rules of the time, rules that are still instilled by the honour system at Dartmouth, Annapolis, West Point and Sandhurst, all the National Officer training academies have some form of honour code. Perhaps there is a solution here? 

 

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1 hour ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

Eighteenth/nineteenth Century warfare was renowned for it's voluntary conventions, especially at sea, these were the unwritten rules that governed warfare some of which still exist, for example enemy combatants were rescued if it was safe to do so and the rescuing ship could accommodate them. Captain Hans Langsdorff of the KMS Graf Spee earned a great deal of respect for the rescuing of survivors and his good treatment of those he saved as late as 1939.  Among those conventions was that no Captain of a ship of the line would engage a ship smaller in rate unless the lesser rated ship opened fire first, it was considered to be an ungentlemanly act and respected by all sides in the Napoleonic war at sea.

While such notions are for the most part neglected in todays society, such acts were considered to be civilised behaviour during the time this game is set, indeed a Captain who broke such conventions could find themselves beached on half pay or even unpaid, ostracised from civil society. Such was strength of society back then, it is why charges of behaviour contrary to good order and discipline, bringing the service into disrepute, and conduct unbecoming an Officer and Gentleman are among the  highest number of General Courts Martial cases listed today.

Perhaps rather than attempt to force a solution through mechanics we should look to a solution based on the unwritten rules of the time, rules that are still instilled by the honour system at Dartmouth, Annapolis, West Point and Sandhurst, all the National Officer training academies have some form of honour code. Perhaps there is a solution here? 

 

It’s a shame there was no way to enforce this 

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OH, Captains you are brilliant. I think that in hashing these things out we get ideas that the Devs should consider. Capt. Sir Lancelot pointed out something, then Capt. Rebrall made me start thinking and I went back and reread some posts. Capt. Aster had an idea of New Player Clans. The spawning nations on the PVE server would be the training clans. A new rank should be added, Admiral. Those who get this rank are required to mentor and teach. It is a high rank carrying with it great responsibility. And above them is a Lord High Admiral, one per nation, to oversee the training. And yes, before someone pitches poo at me and I have to have my gallant sea dog defend me, I full well know that we Americans just can't have any titled people in our nation. We'll just have to suffer and drop the Lord bit. In the training clans they not only learn the mechanics of how to play the game but what is socially expected of them. 

Now here is an interesting thing. Not everyone is going to behave no matter what anyone does or says. We scrap the entire pirate thing as it is now. Why? Because this is where we get pirates from. Just like in real life those who no one can get along with, won't adhere to any social norms. They are those who have been banished from both clan and nation. True rouges. Hunted by all with a kill on sight order. If they surrender we might find a way by which they could redeem themselves and be readmitted to society. Once killed they go back to the beginning and start the game all over again. Truly the hardest level of the game. I think that there should be maybe three clans of them and we would need that hidden hideout idea that I have read about.

I'm not over looking other people's great ideas, and I have read so much here to contemplate. It is just that there is only so much that I can wrap my mind around at any given time. Then, of course, there's real life. BTW, did part of the tutorial today. It was a hoot. Manual sailing. EVERYONE needs to know that. I knew it in real life but never got to practice it in game. The fun thing was the Pursuit and Capture. I've always been the prey, running. I've never chased anyone down to capture them before. I had FUN. If it had been a human I'd have gotten my head handed to me on a platter though. WAY to many keys too mash, and it is not a fault of the game, I'm not a touch typist. It didn't help matters that my GREAT sea dog smelled me sweating and wanted to nuzzle me in the arm pits.

Good night and a Great day. Fair sailing all.       

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2 hours ago, Rebrall said:

It’s a shame there was no way to enforce this 

To a great degree it was self imposed, the code of honour, the possibility of being beached and disgraced was the deterrent, a number of pirates were former naval officers who had in some way broken the code of honour and resorted to a life of piracy, the sea was the only life many of them knew having been at sea from an early age, many Midshipmen were between 10 and 12 years of age, most never rose above the rank of Lieutenant. 

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Fact: newbs getting ganked = Players lost. 

Fact: NA has a steep learning curve, and requires multiple hours to get up to speed in gameplay 

Fact: the current population is dismally low. 

Fact: the 3 mission delete rule has made casual players stop playing. 

Fact: safe zones being dumbed down to allow PvP has scared away newbs and casual players. 

Solutions? 

1-safe zones should be safe zones.  

There should be NO GAPS such as between KPR-SLM and the one by Charleston  

2-AI reinforcements SHOULD be supermodded 1st rates for all.  The Gankers should have fear. 

3- New players should have 2 weeks to choose a final nation to join, this way they can log into the server and see the player base and then decide what nation they want to join.  All new players currently think they will join GB and be issued the HMS Victory with Nelson at the helm.  

PS- nope. You’re getting maybe a brig that you’ll lose to gankers outside KPR in a day or 2  

4-less nations.  Concentrating players in 4-5 nations will increase action dramatically. Increased action=increased content=more interest in playing. 

 

5- NA needs to have a Steam sale or free weekend soon or the player base will wither on the vine. 

 

 

 

Edited by JG14_Cuzn
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2 minutes ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

Fact: newbs getting ganked = Players lost. 

Fact: NA has probably the steepest learning curve of all Multiplayer games 

Fact: the current population is dismally low. 

Fact: the 3 mission delete rule has made casual players stop playing. 

Fact: safe zones being dumbed down to allow PvP has scared away newbs and casual players. 

Solutions? 

1-safe zones should be safe zones.  

There should be NO GAPS such as between KPR-SLM and the one by Charleston  

2-AI reinforcements SHOULD be supermodded 1st rates for all.  The Gankers should have fear. 

3- New players should have 2 weeks to choose a final nation to join, this way they can log into the server and see the player base and then decide what nation they want to join.  All new players currently think they will join GB and be issued the HMS Victory with Nelson at the helm.  

PS- nope. You’re getting maybe a brig that you’ll lose to gankers outside KPR in a day or 2  

4-less nations.  Concentrating players in 4-5 nations will increase action dramatically. Increased action=increased content=more interest in playing. 

 

5- NA needs to have a Steam sale or free weekend soon or the player base will wither on the vine. 

 

 

 

All good, except I don't see a problem with the gaps.  There has to be some danger...

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7 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

Fact: NA has probably the steepest learning curve of all Multiplayer games 

Right...

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1 hour ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

Fact: NA has probably the steepest learning curve of all Multiplayer games 

Not even close mate. 

 

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1 hour ago, Oberon74 said:

All good, except I don't see a problem with the gaps.  There has to be some danger...

No.  There should not be. 

Who do these gaps benefit? 

New players we are trying to retain?

Or gankers waiting to pounce on those who sail into them? 

I know, I know: “ But they should know better” etc etc. 

Everyone in this thread knows that newb’s DON’T know better. 

 

The gist of this thread is RETAINING newbs.  

Closing these gaps CAN help.

 

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The issue by using someone's rank as a means to measure ones skill as a player (being a new player or not in this instance) does not line up. When running a clan in Great Britain and the Dutch I had a few players which I recommended to them not to do this, would speed through the ranks with certain grinding methods at the time. By doing such they would learn nothing such as turning through the wind, upgrades, slots, etc, when they became a rank equal to Rear Admiral.

I have suggested on a few occasions to remove the reinforcement zones or alter them in a way that it only keeps the battle open. At the capitals though make it a no pvp zone that way new players are able to develop with or without instruction from others without external interference. This zone should not be huge at all much like the reinforcement zones are now. But enough space for new players to develop without the area becoming an absolute cluster. Have this zone become temporary depending on a new players rank, if they join a clan, etc. That way it will not be abused by experienced players. Keep these new players off the nation chat till they join a clan and have their own chat network called trainee or something. Have a new clan rank called trainer or recruiter so they can see what these new players are up to and help instruct them in the rookie zones.

 

Edited by Davos Seaworth
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1 hour ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

Fact: NA has probably the steepest learning curve of all Multiplayer games

You should try some flight-simulations ;)

 

No problems with the gaps, but I do agree about the safe-zones. My boys (very casual low-ranking players) almost stopped playing because of being attacked while learning and grinding slots on new ships and I see their point.

Why not make the reinforcement-areas really safe for low ranks and for higher ranks till the got the 2nd or 3rd knowledge-slot of a new ship?

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25 minutes ago, Archer11 said:

 Why not make the reinforcement-areas really safe for low ranks and for higher ranks till the got the 2nd or 3rd knowledge-slot of a new ship?

I seee where you are coming from with the ship knowledge. Issue being experienced players will easily abuse this much like people have abused similar methods in other MMOs.

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1 hour ago, Archer11 said:

You should try some flight-simulations ;)

 

No problems with the gaps, but I do agree about the safe-zones. My boys (very casual low-ranking players) almost stopped playing because of being attacked while learning and grinding slots on new ships and I see their point.

Why not make the reinforcement-areas really safe for low ranks and for higher ranks till the got the 2nd or 3rd knowledge-slot of a new ship?

Edited my original post for clarification.  PS- I'm well aware of the flight sim learning curves ;)

--And your point re: boys are exactly how and who Naval Action is losing.   

 

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1 hour ago, Davos Seaworth said:

The issue by using someone's rank as a means to measure ones skill as a player (being a new player or not in this instance) does not line up. When running a clan in Great Britain and the Dutch I had a few players which I recommended to them not to do this, would speed through the ranks with certain grinding methods at the time. By doing such they would learn nothing such as turning through the wind, upgrades, slots, etc, when they became a rank equal to Rear Admiral.

I have suggested on a few occasions to remove the reinforcement zones or alter them in a way that it only keeps the battle open. At the capitals though make it a no pvp zone that way new players are able to develop with or without instruction from others without external interference. This zone should not be huge at all much like the reinforcement zones are now. But enough space for new players to develop without the area becoming an absolute cluster. Have this zone become temporary depending on a new players rank, if they join a clan, etc. That way it will not be abused by experienced players. Keep these new players off the nation chat till they join a clan and have their own chat network called trainee or something. Have a new clan rank called trainer or recruiter so they can see what these new players are up to and help instruct them in the rookie zones.

 

Rank means absolutely nothing, and those of us playing the game know this. 

 

As for 'removing PVP'.... why?   why not just go back to the Battle hardened Ai 1st rates who a newb can call in?  

As for those who tag Ai in safe zones or who start missions out of safe zones...... there is no help :)    They're fucked....and will either quit the game or learn real fast.

 

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Basics are very simple, entry level gameplay very straight forward - very "mmo" like or whatever - aka. go here, kill ship, get reward.

-after that phase is done, the entire scope is towards multiplayer age of sail, and if in pvp server... Combat can be extremely complex at pvp level. 

This is not the sprint you are looking for. This be a marathon.

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4 hours ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

As for 'removing PVP'.... why?   why not just go back to the Battle hardened Ai 1st rates who a newb can call in?  

You know just as well as anyone playing, the ai is incompetent. Especially the 1st rates were worthless since they could not keep up with majority or raiders and newb farmers around the reinforcement zones. 

4 hours ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

As for those who tag Ai in safe zones.... there is no help :)    They're fucked....and will either quit the game or learn real fast.

Yes they are but that should not be acceptable. Cannot afford losing more new players. Not like Naval Action has the population to spare.

 

Player retention is needed especially new players who tend to get easily hunted by the veterans. Not saying my suggest is perfect but the devs need to change something.

Edited by Davos Seaworth
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5 hours ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

Rank means absolutely nothing, and those of us playing the game know this.

thank you sir 

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Almost every MMO I've played has zones where players progress through until they get to the show or the sandbox.  

Albion has blue zones (NO PVP), Yellow (Flagged PVP no loot) and Red (Full PVP full loot).  Technically there is a black zone too, but it's like Red+++.  

WoW has contested zones and uncontested. 

Eve has different sectors.  High to Null.  

Even in Star Wars Galaxies you had to flag yourself for PVP in the major cities.

Naval Action has nothing. 

----

There needs to be an area for the carebears to do their thing without worrying about getting bullied out of the game.  Most games limit what these players can craft or obtain in the newbie zones and the player hits sort of a wall if he wants to progress.  If they want higher level mobs to kill, higher level crafting mats or dungeons...they have to progress to the next area.  Eventually they get to the point where they venture out into the real part of the game, the sandbox.  I see no reason why NA has to be any different.  To do so they would need to streamline the game a bit more, cut back on nations and consolidate starting areas and unfortunately bend realism a bit to create solid game play.  This game to needs create areas where each nation has a capital, couple crafting ports and limit what you can make.  As the characters progress they go to a different zone on the map where only certain types of missions spawn and rank appropriate NPCs roam.  

For Example.

Bahamas - Rookie Zone.  Each nation has a capital and a port or 2.  No PVP in the rookie zone.  can only craft up 5th rates or lower.  Resources here can't be used in higher level areas.

Gulf - Mid Level Zone.  Each Nation has a capital and a port or 2.  Light PVP outside of protected waters.  Rank appropriate NPCs and Missions.

Current Regional Capitals - High Level Zone.  Each nation has a capital and appropriate ports to craft basic ships.  3/5 standard green or blue ships.  No special woods spawn inside capital area ports.  Moderately sized safe zone.    

Player owned ports - Anything goes.  Spawn valuable woods based on location.  Crafting ships will give a random guaranteed trim and a change to get a purp or gold ship.  

NPCs and Missions killed or spawned outside of the zones grant higher XP, More money & better loot, Missions stay open longer.  Risk vs Reward.

------

Naval Action solved.

  

Edited by Christendom
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We have gone round and round this topic a 100 times.  If you want to keep noobs in the game give them a safe place to run missions and hit ai fleets.  If you want to keep old guys around that just love wooden ships give them the same safe space. Do not make them join a clan- do not make them pass a mandatory test. 

They will want to leave the safe zone eventually because they will want the challenge of fighting a human instead of AI. They will leave the safe zone when it's the only way to unlock the last slot or get an upgrade they want.  They will leave th safe zone if there is an opportunity to trade and make lots of cash.

If they only want to play one hour a week in the safe zone- Let Them! We don't need to feed the Vets- they can fight each other.

Players will leave a safe zone when they are ready- let them play the way they want and more players will stay for longer. Please don't kill my game.

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6 hours ago, Sparkydog said:

 We don't need to feed the Vets- they can fight each other.

The "Vets" do NOT fight eachother, they cooperate to kill noobs at their capital. 

Allso, why do experienced players HAVE to train noobs? There is a tutorial now, ad more layers to the tutorial. If u feel a human teacher is needed make it worth while, give them something.

Allso, why do we have pve missions and npc's when there is such a bad stigma on those? If devs want us to play certain style they need to develop towards that goal.

Allso, why is taking so long to make pretty pictures and fill the placeholders?

In my opinion, there is no WILL to develop this game to the end!

Edited by RaimundoJoe
Wording

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