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Ocean is still to Tanky

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Just now, Cornelius Tromp said:

5th rate ve 1st rate. get over it, get a bigger ship.

Says the increasingly nervous 1st rate sailor 

2f7.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Says the increasingly nervous 1st rate sailor 

2f7.jpg

That should read:

Says the annoyed RVR player that wants to avoid the return of poods 'n carro meta just because some ow pvp gankers want it so.

Edited by Cornelius Tromp

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Just now, Cornelius Tromp said:

That should read:

Says the annoyed RVR player that wants to avoid the return of poods 'n carro meta just because some ow pvp gankers want it so.

Afraid of getting penned? What's there to worry it's just a meagerly 5th rate.

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Just now, Slim McSauce said:

Afraid of getting penned? What's there to worry it's just a meagerly 5th rate.

And what is wrong with payers choosing tanky over speedy? Not everybody wants to run the speedmods meta.

So speed vs tank. Take your pick. Just chain and rake. Like the old days.

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Almost every combat and pvp discussion seems to be boiling down to mods being too much and too imbalanced, especially speed and thickness mods/books. At the very least they are a big contributing factor to a lot of problems and they really work to discourage pvp without really improving gameplay. Sailing a modded ship is only fun because its an advantage (or in many cases, just competitive) 

Anyway I don't want to derail this thread, have to look for a dedicated mod thread to vent my frustrations.

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50 minutes ago, Cornelius Tromp said:

And what is wrong with payers choosing tanky over speedy? Not everybody wants to run the speedmods meta.

So speed vs tank. Take your pick. Just chain and rake. Like the old days.

Thats wrong and you know it. (or should)

 

Carta gives no penality. 

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6 minutes ago, rediii said:

Thats wrong and you know it. (or should)

 

Carta gives no penality. 

Armor was nerfed twice. One more and we will be back to belle poules carronoobing 1st rates by hugging them. And you know it (or should).

We are talking about a 5th rate vs 1st rate, not 1st vs 1st. That balance is fine.

Edited by Cornelius Tromp

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So bigger ships should have an “instant win” button?!?  

GTFOH

Time to git gud.  

8 minutes ago, Cornelius Tromp said:

Armor was nerfed twice. One more and we will be back to belle poules carronoobing 1st rates by hugging them. And you know it (or should).

We are talking about a 5th rate vs 1st rate, not 1st vs 1st. That balance is fine.

 

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Just now, Vernon Merrill said:

So bigger ships should have an “instant win” button?!?  

GTFOH

Time to git gud.  

 

Bigger ships should have an edge to smaller ships yes. As they already do. 

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Just now, Cornelius Tromp said:

Bigger ships should have an edge to smaller ships yes. As they already do. 

Aren't more guns an edge?

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7 minutes ago, Cornelius Tromp said:

Armor was nerfed twice. One more and we will be back to belle poules carronoobing 1st rates by hugging them. And you know it (or should).

We are talking about a 5th rate vs 1st rate, not 1st vs 1st. That balance is fine.

"Carronoobing" and hugging are only a thing because the game does nothing to simulate the effects of crew in the rigging, swivel guns, and deck guns suppressing enemy sailors at close range. Fix that and you can have first rates not be ironclads and still not have small ships exploiting hugging.

Still, can't you turn upwind? They will either have to break off, or slow down enough to get boarded.

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5 hours ago, Capt Aerobane said:

"Carronoobing" and hugging are only a thing because the game does nothing to simulate the effects of crew in the rigging, swivel guns, and deck guns suppressing enemy sailors at close range. Fix that and you can have first rates not be ironclads and still not have small ships exploiting hugging.

Still, can't you turn upwind? They will either have to break off, or slow down enough to get boarded.

+1

We neee musket fire etc killing crew if someone gets inside 100m depending on decks etc.

 

5 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

They do.  More guns. 

Dont forget the crew or HP

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8 hours ago, Cornelius Tromp said:

Just chain and rake. Like the old days.

You mean the days where we didn't have rum and infinite rig reps vs 4 brodsides of chain? We all know why you don't want the armour nerf. RDNN and RUS have never been any good with tactics in battle and never had any other strategy other than full tank and brawl. Without that you achieve nothing. Maybe actual tactics would make things more fun for you guys. 

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too many posts .. on this forum are made up of   xyz   is over powered aor so and so ship is still too tanky / fast

mainly because someones favourite ship cant defeat another ... ... hachi .. trinks were never designed to fight first rates ... so nerfing the l ocean so you can breaks the game

in RL big ships were built because the is a direct correlation between hull thickness  cannon load out and the size of the ship to enable it to float ... they wanted big ships with thick hulls so mad irishmen couldnt sink them in 5 th rates

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When a moduled-full knowledge-Pickle bounces 32 pounders from roughly 400m ( not all of them but enough to shake it as a mere flesh wound ) you know modules are ( insert your favorite adjective regarding modules ).

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Sure why not make those pen changes but also change the ability to depress your cannons on a first rate so that you can blow that 5th rate right out of the water because sailing up to a 1st rate where its hull is raised and where it can't really damage you is mad skill.

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14 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

too many posts .. on this forum are made up of   xyz   is over powered aor so and so ship is still too tanky / fast

mainly because someones favourite ship cant defeat another ... ... hachi .. trinks were never designed to fight first rates ... so nerfing the l ocean so you can breaks the game

in RL big ships were built because the is a direct correlation between hull thickness  cannon load out and the size of the ship to enable it to float ... they wanted big ships with thick hulls so mad irishmen couldnt sink them in 5 th rates

Explained :)

 

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A full broadside of an ocean should break apart a ship like the trincomalee, almost at every possible angle.

 

Still, we dont have that in the game.

 

Instead of nerfing, I would buff a bit some ships like second and third rates. But frigates? They were never designed to fight against ships of the line.

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Fair point :) indeed.

They wouldn't even meet. The rate that caliber would be in a grand fleet, poised to counter enemy similar deployment or on blockade duties, not roaming traffic lanes. But hey, we don't have that in game.

 

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11 hours ago, rediii said:

Thats wrong and you know it. (or should)

 

Carta gives no penality. 

You all know where I stand on mods, but carta and copper having no drawbacks is very deliberate; Many have begged for reasons to fight. I've only observed from the sideline, but it seems that carta has worked as a motivator for RvR, at least it used to? No idea about copper.

The devs know where the balance is. What "stops" them from keeping the balance is the PvE farmable content some people seem to crave as an integral part of the sandbox.

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The goal of the last update was to allow most calibers to pen a 1st rate point blank. I guess that's been forgotten. Oh well, just keep raking super strong and we'll balance 1st rates that way I suppose since you can't fight them broadside to broadside.

Edited by Slim McSauce

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Soo to everyone complaining about a 5th rate should not take on an ocean. We just fought an ocean in vics. I shot him point plank range but at a slight angle (like 10 degrees) and only half of my 24s and my 42s penned 12s and 9s bounced. So I totally agree the L'Ocean bounces to many shots. Let it have a lot of HP but make it possibel to pen it at close range with small guns.

 

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I agree with others who say to lower the thickness of lineships and increase HPs.

In my opinion, tank in this game isn't supposed to mean impervious to cannon damage, it's supposed to mean being able to absorb a lot of hits and still give it back.

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