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Carlos_Condell

Determined Defender Magic Perk

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44 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

So 5 ships attacking you, and you expect them not to board you ?

 

It's the pushing around or even ramming head on with full speed to achieve a full stop that annoys me.

I have seen veteran players with LGV refits heading straight into 2nd LT's on snows, ramming them bow on bow, board, sink, leave battle. Completly stupid mechanic.

Ramming another ship should cause heavy damage to both ships (maybe crew shock due to sudden impact, too), no matter if a 5th rams a 1st or the other way around.

We are talking about ships with a weight of several hundreds or even thousand tons without any breaks.

Edited by Batman
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4 minutes ago, Batman said:

It's the pushing around or even ramming head on with full speed to achieve a full stop that annoys me.

I have seen veteran players with LGV refits heading straight into 2nd LT's on snows, ramming them bow on bow, board, sink, leave battle. Completly stupid mechanic.

Ramming another ship should cause heavy damage to both ships (maybe crew shock due to sudden impact, too), no matter if a 5th rams a 1st or the other way around.

We are talking about ships with a weight of several hundreds or even thousand tons without any breaks.

when ramming a ship it could cripple the attacker 

the shock of the impact could even break a mast (mast shock)

we dont see it in the game also

a lot is done on damaging others by guns, but the damage to your own is minimal (ramming > /fire to sails /hitting rocks/ heavy winds and damage to rigging )for instance

Edited by Thonys
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33 minutes ago, Fletch67 said:

Boarding was being abused though, A boarding action was being initiated with no chance of success, but to hold the bigger ship in place while friends graped it down. So it was used simply to lock a ship down.

Maybe grapping the enemy while in boarding should cause crew damage to both sides? After all, I assume both players crew would be on the ship being shot at. In this scenario the smaller ship would last a far shorter time in this "No chance of success" scenario and give the large ship a chance to end things quicker so it can get back in the fight.

Also, you cannot reboard a ship for 60 seconds if you boarded them, but I feel this should be the case for your team aswell. Stop chain boarding being quite so effective and at least require the other ships to place themselves in a way so to block the target ship from sailing away.

Reduce the op boarding mechanics and the need for DD goes away.

Edited by Liam790

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Just now, Thonys said:

when ramming a ship it could cripple the attacker 

the shock of the impact could even break a mast (mast shock)

we dont see it in the game also

Entanglement of rigging.

But I can see the meta gaming already :D

"... from the wrath of the metamen, deliver us O'Lord !"

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Because boarding is used as a tactic to immobilize a player for a gank. I couldn't care less if it's used in 1v1s on a sufficiently crippled opponent, it's the effort you put into the crippling part instead of just steering an enemy ship into the wind and wtfpwining them with 'boarding mods'.

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This perk is soo overpowered, there has been several suggestions to remove/change this, why it is back in the game noone knows, there are no explanation from the devs why they put it back.

Probably reload noObs who complain of getting boarded when they get to close without any boarding mods. Rather then up their game by equipping their ships accordingly and train in boarding they whine how unfair boarding are, there are certainly improvements to be done to boarding but it is still part of the game (almost).

I agree that there are an issue with various types of boarding mechanics exploits such as smaller ships board and a second grape, but this perk punishes everyone and are not a good solution and limits the scope and tools of the game for players to use in this sandbox.

Increasing perk cost and mitigating effects of the perk has been suggested before to moderate it, not to mention removing it again. 

I would love to know how the devs are reasoning in regards to why it came back, maybe they can win me over, but i doubt it with it's current configuration.

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2 hours ago, Le Raf Boom said:

And this is also stupid as it would encourage bigger ships to ram small ones resulting in RAM damage triremes.

Can't you do that ? What is the problem ? 

I am not a stupid captain to stay in the way of Victory or Agamemnon if I am in smaller ship ! So ramming should give hull damage and leaks aside from rig damage or even demast. 

Edited by AeRoTR
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42 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

Can't you do that ? What is the problem ? 

I am not a stupid captain to stay in the way of Victory or Agamemnon if I am in smaller ship ! So ramming should give hull damage and leaks aside from rig damage or even demast. 

The whole ramming thing is weak.  If a 4th rate (or higher) rams a 6th or 7th rate (90degrees or "T-Bone") the smaller ship should be destroyed.  If the smaller ship rams a much larger one, it should be like hitting a wall, with all damage (or most) on the smaller ship.  Ships of the same rate who ram should both receive damage commensurate with their angles of impact.  Demasting should be a near certainty when ramming results in a sudden stop.  major leaking should also be common. 

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I just wish they would fix the mini game of whoever clicks at the last second is the winner. With my ping and internet lag even against AI I need to attack at the three second mark to make sure it registers. So there is no way I’m going to try boarding combat against another player.  

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I don't see the problem with it. You only get 5 perk slots, 

1 hour ago, Oberon74 said:

The whole ramming thing is weak.  If a 4th rate (or higher) rams a 6th or 7th rate (90degrees or "T-Bone") the smaller ship should be destroyed.  If the smaller ship rams a much larger one, it should be like hitting a wall, with all damage (or most) on the smaller ship.  Ships of the same rate who ram should both receive damage commensurate with their angles of impact.  Demasting should be a near certainty when ramming results in a sudden stop.  major leaking should also be common. 

It used to happen in game, ships would sink from ramming or suffer very severe damage, I used to enjoy it but I have seen friendly ships sink each other in battles and stuff. I guess it got removed because they don't like the idea of a low skilled player in his chip shop frigate  ramming the elite pvpr in their solo pimped up seal clubbing mobile. Would be like having unlimited chain all over again.

Edited by Fletch67
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16 hours ago, Wyy said:

also maybe add that, to board you cant be lower then 20%(for example) morale than the one you want to board.

I think it's very good suggestion, you should probably post it in a separate thread :) 

Having morale on every ship and lowering it based on crew casualities and shocks would be great - eg. you could board for a limited time after shocking the enemy.

In this setting DD could increase regain of morale with time.

Morale would require some visible indication to work though.

 

In reality most ships were not sunk - most ships surrendered after being decrewed, incapacitated, or severely damaged, and were boarded afterwards. It sometimes took days for a ship to sink.

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I have a question.

Why a bigger by crew ship can always board a smaller by crew one. Are boarding nets and other preparations always useless on smaller ships?

If the answer is no why DD doesn't consider that?

Edited by z4ys
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12 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I have a question.

Why a bigger ship can always board a smaller one. Are boarding nets and other preparations always useless on smaller ships?

If the answer is no why DD doesn't consider that?

Unless I got the wrong end of the stick. Determined defender has nothing to do with the ship size, its dependent on the number of crew, You couldn't board a cutter in a first rate if you both had the same crew. I don't see much of a problem with it if I am honest although I think it could be 20% more crew needed to board,

Edited by Fletch67

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I'm re-submitting a suggestion that I posted a week or so ago because it addresses possible changes to boarding that may, in the end, also affect DD.

Admin's response was that only after the completion of 'localization', will they then address changes to boarding mechanics.

So if (hopefully) they use a version of their combat engine for the Ultimate General game and use it as a basis for a turn-based resolution to the boarding scenario, then maybe DD will function as a short term, but hard fought delaying action in order to achieve numerical parity or advantage in the initial stages of boarding. Below is my original post. Thank you.

...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Over the years, many players have wished for a change to the boarding mechanics in Naval Action. Game-Labs already has a combat engine for their Ultimate General game. I'm wondering if something similar could be implemented into the boarding aspect of Naval Action. 

I've attached a screen shot from a strategy game by the developers of 'Pike & Shot' for illustrative purposes only. Imagine the crude outline around the combatants as representing their respective ships.

1. The boarding battle would be turn-based, with the attacker going first.

2. Each player would have a set amount of time to move his various troops, including their facing, before his turn ends. The timer is needed to keep the pace of the boarding action from bogging down - similar to a timer used in chess matches. This would also help to mimic the frenetic, chaotic urgency of close combat.

3. The result of each players turn is auto-resolved by the game until one of the players wins the boarding. As they do now, all boarding upgrades will have an affect on the outcome of each players turn (boarding ladders, barricades, muskets, marines etc.).

The goal of this idea being, to improve on the current "rock, paper, scissors" gameplay.

 

 

Naval Boarding.jpg

Edited by Captiva
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3 minutes ago, Fletch67 said:

Unless I got the wrong end of the stick. Determined defender has nothing to do with the ship size, its dependent on the number of crew, You couldn't board a cutter in a first rate if you both had the same crew. I don't see much of a problem with it if I am honest although I think it could be 20% more crew needed to board,

Sorry for confusion I mean bigger = more crew.

Why crew is the factor that determines if pulling is successful or not. Can a smaller ship that still has full crew not defend the ship and deny boarding?

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30 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Sorry for confusion I mean bigger = more crew.

Why crew is the factor that determines if pulling is successful or not. Can a smaller ship that still has full crew not defend the ship and deny boarding?

Its done to stop it being abused not for realism. Its the same principle as using BR on pulling ships into open world battles.

 

40 minutes ago, Captiva said:

I'm re-submitting a suggestion that I posted a week or so ago because it addresses possible changes to boarding that may, in the end, also affect DD.

Admin's response was that only after the completion of 'localization', will they then address changes to boarding mechanics.

So if (hopefully) they use a version of their combat engine for the Ultimate General game and use it as a basis for a turn-based resolution to the boarding scenario, then maybe DD will function as a short term, but hard fought delaying action in order to achieve numerical parity or advantage in the initial stages of boarding. Below is my original post. Thank you.

...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Over the years, many players have wished for a change to the boarding mechanics in Naval Action. Game-Labs already has a combat engine for their Ultimate General game. I'm wondering if something similar could be implemented into the boarding aspect of Naval Action. 

I've attached a screen shot from a strategy game by the developers of 'Pike & Shot' for illustrative purposes only. Imagine the crude outline around the combatants as representing their respective ships.

1. The boarding battle would be turn-based, with the attacker going first.

2. Each player would have a set amount of time to move his various troops, including their facing, before his turn ends. The timer is needed to keep the pace of the boarding action from bogging down - similar to a timer used in chess matches. This would also help to mimic the frenetic, chaotic urgency of close combat.

3. The result of each players turn is auto-resolved by the game until one of the players wins the boarding. As they do now, all boarding upgrades will have an affect on the outcome of each players turn (boarding ladders, barricades, muskets, marines etc.).

The goal of this idea being, to improve on the current "rock, paper, scissors" gameplay.

 

 

Naval Boarding.jpg

How can you make boarding turned based when the rest of the battle around the two ships is in real time? Might be 20 other ships in the battle that can sail up and sink you while your involved in a turn based game.

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6 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

Determent defender works very well imo. The recrew option is very limited now, and has a long cooldown. So only reason you can't board players with determent defender in 1,5 hour, is either because you don't have a advantage or your not aggressive enough.

I know you guys, you just want it to be fast and easy again! Shot some sails, push against the wind and then chain board the player while your mates rake.. There is no skill involved in this, it's just a gank.

try to board someone in a PB and after that we talk...
now u need a calculator to know how many crew u need to get close to the enemy ship to have a nice boarding action... is silly and stupid... if you do all the grape all the work, and you are getting closer, the guy just use rum and brace and you are inhable to board... the time is gone and u lose your chance... is really stupid

BTW my ping in battle is 264 so i board only for fun and some times for need... but i think DD makes Book of 5 ring useless

Edited by Carlos_Condell
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I wonder how many people complaining about the Determined Defender mod being magic also have the mystical "Lord-of-the-Book-of-the-Five-Rings" mod.

 

(Which apparently turns your boarders into zombie Zorros in a cocaine-fueled euphoria able to jump over gunwales 12 feet tall.....)

 

Nothing out of whack there at all....  nope.

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3 hours ago, Anne Wildcat said:

I just wish they would fix the mini game of whoever clicks at the last second is the winner. With my ping and internet lag even against AI I need to attack at the three second mark to make sure it registers. So there is no way I’m going to try boarding combat against another player.  

Which is my point exactly and this effects everything from delay in firing guns to when ships become visible. People here calling out others as noobs and that they are pussies for using DD have sub 50 pings! The 300+ ping lag a significant impact it makes games like FPS impossible to play vs other players.

 

Edited by William Wade

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