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Le Raf Boom

Victory - too much hull exposed

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As the subject says, the ship is too easy to 'leak' shoot, it sits too high in the water and can be leak shot with 1% heel.  This needs to be looked at, thanks!

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I think Victory in general should be looked at. She neither has the firepower of the Santi or the tankyness of the L'Ocean.

She sails and turns somewhat better, but it hardly makes up for it.

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16 minutes ago, Batman said:

I think Victory in general should be looked at. She neither has the firepower of the Santi or the tankyness of the L'Ocean.

She sails and turns somewhat better, but it hardly makes up for it.

She also dont have the BR of those.

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Iv'e said this a million times- Give her the 68lb carros on the weatherdeck she deserves!!!!!!

 

68 Pounder Carronade

 

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Seeing as the HMS Victory is the only surviving ship and the others were defeated and/or captured, the HMS Victory should be treated as the superior ship of the three.

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1 hour ago, Le Raf Boom said:

As the subject says, the ship is too easy to 'leak' shoot, it sits too high in the water and can be leak shot with 1% heel.  This needs to be looked at, thanks!

 

 How ships sit in the water should be relative to materials used to build along with current cargo load.   Ships built of lighter woods for speed should be higher out of the water than a heavy wood tank build. 

 

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I've never had a problem with Victory's heel. It is very manageable with proper sail handling. Use that heel to your advantage and shoot leaks into those ugly L'Oceans. Speaking of which, L'Ocean is just as easy to leak out. If you want leak immunity in a first rate, try a Santisima--while you can leak it out, it isn't very easy and most players don't know where to aim to leak a Santi. 

Now I will agree with what others have said. Poor Victory has been left behind by the buffs to L'Ocean and Santisima. It used to have nearly the same HP as L'Ocean, but traded firepower for agility and sailing ability. Now it has significantly less HP, thickness, and firepower than Santi or Ocean, for only a marginal increase in sailing quality. It needs some buffing.

IMO, Victory should be the most agile first rate, with the highest thickness, second highest HP (behind L'Ocean), but the least firepower. Santisima should be the second most agile, second highest thickness, lowest HP, and most firepower. L'Ocean should be a good balance between them: lowest agility (a fair bit worse than Santi) and lowest thickness (slightly lower than Santi), but very high HP and decent firepower.

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Maybe Nelson was just a badass or do we need to have everything like A counters B but gets beaten by C etc?

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Ocean is the most advanced ship of the 3. 

Victory was a ship among 27 at trafalgar, that doesnt make it the best of the ships built by the royal navy.

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29 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Maybe Nelson was just a badass or do we need to have everything like A counters B but gets beaten by C etc?

A beats B, B beats C, C beats A.

I'd rather have that then "B wins, don't use A or C."

Balance can get repetative and sometimes very boring, but when you don't have balance, there is no diversity.

The best balance I have seen to date in the game is the shallow water ships BEFORE the hercules.

Niagara, prince, and heavy rattlesnake all are fairly equal and each port battle has a high diversity of them. The rattlesnake is light but also seen....heck the snow is a favorite for some too.

I think the 4th rate ship class is also balanced well when you only factor other 4ths...

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All you have to do is look at the number of people sailing Victory's to realize it is way behind the other 1st rates.

I agree it takes leaks too easily after being on the receiving end of 33 leaks from 1 broadside and I do not think I was heeled that much and the only thing that saved me was carta caulking refit.

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58 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Ocean is the most advanced ship of the 3. 

Victory was a ship among 27 at trafalgar, that doesnt make it the best of the ships built by the royal navy.

British sailors and officers made it the best.

 

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23 minutes ago, seanjo said:

British sailors and officers made it the best.

 

Maybe, we didnt live in that time to make such statements.

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I can give you leaks in a victory when you're not heeled, it won't be many but like I said the ship sits too high in the water and is too easy to sink with leaks.

 

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part of the problem is out of the 3, the victory was the only one that historically carried 42lb cannons on its bottom deck. 

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7 hours ago, OneEyedSnake said:

part of the problem is out of the 3, the victory was the only one that historically carried 42lb cannons on its bottom deck. 

The 42 lb cannons were replaced by 32lb cannons in 1803, so at the time of Trafalgar it was using the 32 lb cannons

Her weaponry was intended to be thirty 42-pounders (19 kg) on her lower deck, twenty-eight 24-pounder long guns (11 kg) on her middle deck, and thirty 12-pounders (5 kg) on her upper deck, together with twelve 6-pounders on her quarterdeck and forecastle. In May 1778, the 42-pounders were replaced by 32-pounders (15 kg), but the 42-pounders were reinstated in April 1779; however there were insufficient 42-pounders available and these were replaced with 32-pounder cannons instead.[18]

http://www.houseoftheorangemonkey.co.uk/monkey/trips/trip1461615.htm

As you can see the 42 lb cannons were replaced in 1803

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18 hours ago, Dibbler said:

 

 How ships sit in the water should be relative to materials used to build along with current cargo load.   Ships built of lighter woods for speed should be higher out of the water than a heavy wood tank build. 

 

No, they have to ballasted down to the same waterline, otherwise they won't be stable.

Making the timbers lighter doesn't do anything to reduce the weights of guns, men, rigging etc, which is all placed well above the center of gravity.

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16 hours ago, Teutonic said:

A beats B, B beats C, C beats A.

I'd rather have that then "B wins, don't use A or C."

Remove the modules entirely. Then we have that.

Sorry for the OT.

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14 hours ago, Glorgir said:

The 42 lb cannons were replaced by 32lb cannons in 1803, so at the time of Trafalgar it was using the 32 lb cannons

Her weaponry was intended to be thirty 42-pounders (19 kg) on her lower deck, twenty-eight 24-pounder long guns (11 kg) on her middle deck, and thirty 12-pounders (5 kg) on her upper deck, together with twelve 6-pounders on her quarterdeck and forecastle. In May 1778, the 42-pounders were replaced by 32-pounders (15 kg), but the 42-pounders were reinstated in April 1779; however there were insufficient 42-pounders available and these were replaced with 32-pounder cannons instead.[18]

http://www.houseoftheorangemonkey.co.uk/monkey/trips/trip1461615.htm

As you can see the 42 lb cannons were replaced in 1803

Correct. Thanks for verifying my statement that it did carry 42 pounders.  In fact I remember the earlier HMS Victory, the one that sank, carried 42lbs as well. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4445783/HMS-Victory-and-cargo-of-gold-found-in-English-channel.html

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On 5/14/2018 at 8:28 AM, Intrepido said:

Ocean is the most advanced ship of the 3. 

Victory was a ship among 27 at trafalgar, that doesnt make it the best of the ships built by the royal navy.

Unfortunately to make the ships a close as we can accurately to historical facts we need to make the victory the thickest with the 2nd most hp and the best sailor also should be the only 1st rate with 42lbs,

 

the reason being is that and you can look this up to the French and Spanish carried more crew for boarding and the British were more accurate on there guns, also the victory did take the brunt of the initial damage in trafalger cant seem to find it but there is a damage report from the battle somewhere on the forums I believe it’s in the post about there’s tomany 1st rates or limit the amount of 1st rates,

 

On 5/14/2018 at 7:37 AM, William Death said:

IMO, Victory should be the most agile first rate, with the highest thickness, second highest HP (behind L'Ocean), but the least firepower. Santisima should be the second most agile, second highest thickness, lowest HP, and most firepower. L'Ocean should be a good balance between them: lowest agility (a fair bit worse than Santi) and lowest thickness (slightly lower than Santi), but very high HP and decent firepower.

^ is correct 

 

also the leak shots are broken @Le Raf Boom didn’t one of our guys get sunk to almost 30 leakshots through the bow?

Edited by Rebrall

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On 5/13/2018 at 10:31 PM, Teutonic said:

Niagara, prince, and heavy rattlesnake all are fairly equal and each port battle has a high diversity of them. The rattlesnake is light but also seen....heck the snow is a favorite for some too.

A well built Niagara fleet with 1-2 fast princes almost can't be beaten. There was no balance, just people often didn't use OP fleet compositions :) Now Hercules rules all.

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16 minutes ago, vazco said:

A well built Niagara fleet with 1-2 fast princes almost can't be beaten. There was no balance, just people often didn't use OP fleet compositions :) Now Hercules rules all.

True but the hercules thing is only for a short while..lost is lost might take some weeks but alot of them will dissapear soon

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On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 5:28 PM, Intrepido said:

Ocean is the most advanced ship of the 3. 

Victory was a ship among 27 at trafalgar, that doesnt make it the best of the ships built by the royal navy.

It blew up though....25% chance of fire to the magazine!

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27 minutes ago, Mrgoldstein said:

True but the hercules thing is only for a short while..lost is lost might take some weeks but alot of them will dissapear soon

Two of them in a PB can change the outcome in an even fight. There are people who have a few of them. Just like with Edinorogs, they were supposed to be gone by now, yet still I have approx. 450 of them. In RvR they may be destabilizing. 

It's an off-topic though :) 

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