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A Re-take to Regional Bonuses


Regional Bonus perks  

71 members have voted

  1. 1. Port Maintenance reductions for the nation (clan port holders) when holding all ports in a region.

    • Yes, this sounds good
      51
    • No, I don't like it
      19
    • Yes, but... (in comments)
      1
    • Maybe, I suggest something different (in comments)
      0
  2. 2. Further increase in labor reduction/resource production bonuses.

    • Yes, this sounds good
      53
    • No, I don't like it
      16
    • Yes, but... (in comments)
      1
    • Maybe, I suggest something different (in comments)
      1
  3. 3. increase chances for better ship crafting (purple and gold ships more likely to be crafted).

    • Yes, this sounds good
      50
    • No, I don't like it
      16
    • Yes, but.... (in comments)
      3
    • Maybe, I suggest something different (in comments)
      2
  4. 4. increase in chances for better ship trims (like very fast, very cramped, very agile etc) as well as a way to "force" a ship trim possibly.

    • Yes, this sounds good
      52
    • No, I don't like it
      15
    • Yes, but.... (in comments)
      2
    • Maybe, I suggest something different (in comments)
      2


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3 hours ago, Christendom said:

All I know is back when we had the strong hull ports, ships were easy to produce and easy to sink.  No stupid OP mods.  We had more port battles going on with about the same population or less than we currently have daily.  RVR needs to mean something, or no one will do it.  

More folks sailing goods to ports to craft ships is exactly what we need.  More traffic and targets outside of the safe zone.  The fact that you can craft purple/gold ships inside the safe zone just astonishes me.  There is zero benefit to crafting outside of it now, other than labor hour reductions which can easily be mitigated with combat mark labor contracts.

I cannot agree more but it need to be a fun mechanic as well so people swallow the pill. And so far no suggestion will make it better as recent tests that failed.

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The following will be implemented in the next BIG patch. 

  • Capturable cities will give much better chance to build an exceptional vessel. 

 

In terms of making ports matter more 2 things could be done

  • Removal of safe transport of upgrades
  • Ability should be given to clans to completely lock trade in the controlled city, giving all resources produced by city to a clan.

This will make at least some cities - a must have - and will create constant pressure to capture. 

But, we have not yet learnt how to balance the following (as we are not sure it is possible)

  • This is a pvp game content should matter
  • This is a pvp game one side cannot lock down another nation from content by conquest
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29 minutes ago, admin said:

The following will be implemented in the next BIG patch. 

  • Capturable cities will give much better chance to build an exceptional vessel.  Amazing, sounds great.

 

In terms of making ports matter more 2 things could be done

  • Removal of safe transport of upgrades I like it. Unsure though, explanation below.
  • Ability should be given to clans to completely lock trade in the controlled city, giving all resources produced by city to a clan. I don't like it, Locking 1 resource in a port is better than the whole port as i don't think clan should be able to lock people out from there own nation. The amount of issues this could bring from abusing to trolling. Clan v Clan game great... but not when you're technically fighting for a nation.

 

Edited by Bloody Hound
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I agree i'm unsure about the upgrades thing too, i can see the benefits and negatives. Benefits being lone hunters etc could profit more. Negatives being people wont want to stray far from the capital again so they'll just build a Shipyard in a nearby port for the benefit of increased chance of a exceptional ships but the reduced risk of being caught out in the ocean with upgrades. 

Examples being - Little River on the US coast will become the main shipyard i think.

Belize will become more important than KPR due to the ports you can capture around it.

They would build the ships in said ports and move them to the capital to add the upgrades. As upgrades are generally worth more than ships.

 

I think the chance to build an exceptional vessel outside the capital is a must first.

Edited by Bloody Hound
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23 minutes ago, admin said:

Removal of safe transport of upgrades

What is faster lynx with cannons and repairs or lynx without it?

If you increase weight of modules than all ship will sail slowly.

So I'm sure that in several patches this feature will disabled. :D

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24 minutes ago, admin said:

Removal of safe transport of upgrades

 

Im against any change that requires more hauling. I think the main reason people disliked regional bonuses wasnt their balance, but the time investment to bring crafted ships to the front line (hell, we had to sail our 1st rates from Orinoco to Port-au-Prince ffs!). If tow stays, regional bonuses might actually be good for the RvR game.

 

27 minutes ago, admin said:

Ability should be given to clans to completely lock trade in the controlled city, giving all resources produced by city to a clan.

 

I liked this idea when i saw it the first time. Its basically the solution to alt accounts buying your critical ressources. The problem i see is that you cant attack your own nations ports, without the implementation of civil wars this might lead to awkward situations where an alt clan controls a port and his own nation is not able to take it back.

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PS:
The logic of it doesn't make much sense either. Transporting "upgrades" in your hull.

So In my hull I have Superior gunpowder, a entire pirate rig refit and some British gunners but I cant use them in battle.

My point being we already carry the goods that make these upgrades. Maybe adding the layer of carrying the upgrades like that is to far I dunno?

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Ability should be given to clans to completely lock trade in the controlled city, giving all resources produced by city to a clan.

 2 thoughts:

1. You would need to make more ports spread across the map produce the in demand goods (teak/White oak for example). In order to allow the different clans/nations a better balance of access. You don't want to much, otherwise it makes holding the ports pointless again but to little and certain clans/nations will have a monopoly/lock down of the necessary goods.

Ports could produce different amounts of a resource. Port "A" produces 1000 a day port "B" produces 2000 a day. Rather than just these ports produce good "X" Allowing more flexibility.

2. How about a "tithe" instead of complete lock of trade. Clan owns port "A" , a player buys 1000 oak from the port, Owning clan receives 100 oak. Could be given as an option to set instead of gold tax maybe.

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12 minutes ago, admin said:
  • Ability should be given to clans to completely lock trade in the controlled city, giving all resources produced by city to a clan.

 

I am not sure if that should be a thing. In my opinion it will lead to bad blood in nation.

Better would be that a clan gets xy percentage of produced goods into new introduced  clan city storage. 

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12 hours ago, Bach said:

You can probably avoid most of the "alt" issue if the bonuses ONLY apply to the clan owning the region.

This will not work properly in long terms. Boredom and lack of content is what kills RvR. Locking a region or a port only for 1 clan, is like having a rare toy, ultimately 1 day you get bored of it, and you toss it away.

 

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12 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I am not sure if that should be a thing. In my opinion it will lead to bad blood in nation.

Better would be that a clan gets xy percentage of produced goods into new introduced  clan city storage. 

thats why its not in game. One option would be to give clans an ability to open trade for the friendly clans but it still locks everyone else out. 

 

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12 minutes ago, admin said:

thats why its not in game. One option would be to give clans an ability to open trade for the friendly clans but it still locks everyone else out. 

 

It's possible to bypass by having no friends on the clan list. So still not sure about that. It could be a thing when nations would be clans but not when nations consist out of clans.

Best option would be that clans get a percentage or contracts by clan members get served even there are other non clan contracts. But not like they get everything.  Let's say port produces 5goods per hour. Clan contracts get filled by 3 or 2 and not clan contracts get the remaining 2-3 goods. Furthermore clan contracts can be xy times lower than the highest contract but have to be over port price in order to be served

Other option would be to place it directly into clan warehouse but that would remove transport. So that's not really an option in my opinion.

Edited by z4ys
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1 hour ago, admin said:

The following will be implemented in the next BIG patch. 

  • Capturable cities will give much better chance to build an exceptional vessel. Very nice 😍

 

In terms of making ports matter more 2 things could be done

  • Removal of safe transport of upgrades Nope, carrying the good's to make them has a risk and im fine with that rather not carry the upgrade itself. 
  • Ability should be given to clans to completely lock trade in the controlled city, giving all resources produced by city to a clan. hmm prefer this over the remove of safe transport of upgrades, but it does however pose some of its own issues, but it could also provide content to, if a clan locks out a port (except friendly clans which should be added if you go this way) that clan would have to use trade ships to sell those goods so in turn making those ships very valuable so they will get an escort so that will create a lot of pvp, and will also as you say below create more RVR

This will make at least some cities - a must have - and will create constant pressure to capture. 

But, we have not yet learnt how to balance the following (as we are not sure it is possible)

  • This is a pvp game content should matter 2 things needed to improve this PVE content as many have said, and maybe work on some more interesting pvp content such as raids on ports 
  • This is a pvp game one side cannot lock down another nation from content by conquest, safe zones block some of this but are also necessary  

 

Edited by Rebrall
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2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

It's possible to bypass by having no friends on the clan list. So still not sure about that. It could be a thing when nations would be clans but not when nations consist out of clans.

Best option would be that clans get a percentage or contracts by clan members get served even there are other non clan contracts. But not like they get everything.  Let's say port produces 5goods per hour. Clan contracts get filled by 3 or 2 and not clan contracts get the remains 2-3 goods. Furthermore clan contracts can be xy times lower than the highest contract but have to be over port price in order to be served

then they risk having no help from others when they need them such as screener's and the actual pb itself 

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2 minutes ago, Rebrall said:

then they risk having no help from others when they need them such as screener's and the actual pb itself 

You don't need when you are the zerg. Sure in a small nation it won't happen but big nations with big clan (everyone will join said clans in order to get access) it will fail.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

The following will be implemented in the next BIG patch. 

  • Capturable cities will give much better chance to build an exceptional vessel. 

This is a good move on itself.

Can be bettered, as I envision, with County Capitals being Naval Bases and the only places eligible for admiralty shipyards - ships of the line - 3rd, 2nd and 1st. The pride of the navy. Better chance on the County Capitals for Capital ships ( 3-1). Flat for others (7-4)

Rest of county ports can be used for all other rates and "private" shipyards setup there. Better chance for 7th to 4th, flat chance for 3-1.

1 hour ago, admin said:

 

In terms of making ports matter more 2 things could be done

  • Removal of safe transport of upgrades - the upgrades already feel odd being a "transportable", so I see no problem with having them as a "item" same as fish meat. Tuck it in the hold and pray to arrive safe.
  • Ability should be given to clans to completely lock trade in the controlled city, giving all resources produced by city to a clan. - not sure. I would implement this harshly, being not easy but, if achieved, yield the power to the clan to have all the goodies ( and monopolize them such as India Companies ) ( and shutdown competitive alts). If Clan controls all of ports of a County's then they can setup the trade lock. 

This will make at least some cities - a must have - and will create constant pressure to capture. 

But, we have not yet learnt how to balance the following (as we are not sure it is possible)

  • This is a pvp game content should matter - direct and indirect PvP should always affect RvR and here lies the gordian knot. Direct PvP are the naval operations involving hostility and PB/screening. Indirect can be everything else, including interception of transportation of good and ships. When these are untouchable, the opportunity is lost. At the moment doesn't feel bad, but also doesn't feel decisive. The objective to go PvP is "individual" and doesn't feel like part of a ongoing war.
  • This is a pvp game one side cannot lock down another nation from content by conquest - Did not understand exactly what you mean here.

( notes in color )

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1 hour ago, admin said:

The following will be implemented in the next BIG patch. 

  • Capturable cities will give much better chance to build an exceptional vessel.  This is good, but safezone ports should only give blue 3/5 ships with perks period.  Anything else you want needs to be crafted out side of safe zones.

 

In terms of making ports matter more 2 things could be done

  • Removal of safe transport of upgrades Not goo cause folks keep in there list refits to throw on a ship real fast to get back in the fight.  The problem is being able to buy the mats, craft them and than just teleport out of the port.  How about limit that you can only craft the refits ina clan on port that you have a workshop in.  You need a workshop to do cannons and any mods/refits.  They can't be put up in enemy ports even if open to all.   Same with shipyards should not be able to be put up in friendly to all ports.  Resource buildings are allowed only.
  • Ability should be given to clans to completely lock trade in the controlled city, giving all resources produced by city to a clan. Make it the option mention that can be locked to: Nation, Friendly Trade Clans or ALL (open to all ports).

This will make at least some cities - a must have - and will create constant pressure to capture. 

But, we have not yet learnt how to balance the following (as we are not sure it is possible)

  • This is a pvp game content should matter
  • This is a pvp game one side cannot lock down another nation from content by conquest That why some ports need to have more resources than just limited to one or two ports on the map.   The problem is folks won't fight over them once they get them.  Not a hard thing to resolve.WHi

 

51 minutes ago, Bloody Hound said:

I agree i'm unsure about the upgrades thing too, i can see the benefits and negatives. Benefits being lone hunters etc could profit more. Negatives being people wont want to stray far from the capital again so they'll just build a Shipyard in a nearby port for the benefit of increased chance of a exceptional ships but the reduced risk of being caught out in the ocean with upgrades. 

Examples being - Little River on the US coast will become the main shipyard i think.

Belize will become more important than KPR due to the ports you can capture around it.

They would build the ships in said ports and move them to the capital to add the upgrades. As upgrades are generally worth more than ships.

 

I think the chance to build an exceptional vessel outside the capital is a must first.

Which is good, if you want safe production stay at the capital, if you want good ships and production use a captured port and protect it. I also think production of shipyards and workshops should not be in free towns either.  Yes this will kill the three nations if they ever get one ported but they are hard mode after all, solution is don't get one ported. 

37 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I am not sure if that should be a thing. In my opinion it will lead to bad blood in nation.

Better would be that a clan gets xy percentage of produced goods into new introduced  clan city storage. 

They need something since they own the port, right now it's not working where any one can go in with an alt and just out bid and the clan that owns it gets nothing other than the tax, which by the way as you make more money you pay more in upkeep tax's right.  Like up to 50% of your profits which is BS.   Goods are getting taxed 2-3 times in ports?

23 minutes ago, admin said:

thats why its not in game. One option would be to give clans an ability to open trade for the friendly clans but it still locks everyone else out. 

 

Prob the best option to give Clans control of a port, you want goods from that clan get on there good side.

9 minutes ago, Fenris said:

Folks i am telling you this will not work in long terms........Focus on money and taxation of population.

None of those shiny things(bonuses) can make enough tax revenue, making a port valuable.

Most of our clan income is from our own clan trading in our ports not the nation.  Cause most of the nation is still hiding in the safe zone trying to nickle n dime what they can find in there.  So this is not correct.   

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37 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Most of our clan income is from our own clan trading in our ports not the nation.  Cause most of the nation is still hiding in the safe zone trying to nickle n dime what they can find in there.  So this is not correct

Which ports are those? I bet they are worth s...t.

Look at Nassau or Santo Domingo, Little Harbour, La Navasse.... free for all and generating huge income.BECAUSE they have something to offer and people trade there.

If anyone could tax the free ports, or at least calculate their income, you would see how much money is made there. Closing ports for trade, will NOT make more money, it is a defensive measure, a tactical one.

 

 

If some day we can make ships again with a chance of getting a purple or golden one, 3 things will happen.

1. Ultimately ANYONE will be able to sail a purple or golden one,which can only lead to saturation and boredom.

2. You will find those ships in market ,many of them, and prices will be enormous. Which again, if those are available, again leads to boredom and saturation.

3. If golden ships stay rare, nobody is going to sail them anyway, but keep them in port, for duels without sinking or whatever.

In the end we will end where we were, about 18 months ago.

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1 minute ago, Fenris said:

If some day we can make ships again with a chance of getting a purple or golden one, 3 things will happen.

1. Ultimately ANYONE will be able to sail a purple or golden one,which can only lead to saturation and boredom. Not anyone will be able to sail on rare ships. Only those who take the effort to move the goods to the ports for crafting. Thus increasing the OW traffic of trade ships.

2. You will find those ships in market ,many of them, and prices will be enormous. Which again, if those are available, again leads to boredom and saturation. Econ will balance as it always does. Doesn't make the game boring.

3. If golden ships stay rare, nobody is going to sail them anyway, but keep them in port, for duels without sinking or whatever.  Your either one type of player or the other. The one that hoards things for a rainy day or the one that uses his shiny things for enjoyment. You cant change that.

In the end we will end where we were, about 18 months ago.

Regardless of the points you've made it will lead to a increase in trade fleeting to ports that are not capitals which is the entire point of the introduction of the mechanic.

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1 minute ago, Capt Jubal Early said:

Not anyone will be able to sail on rare ships. Only those who take the effort to move the goods to the ports for crafting. Thus increasing the OW traffic of trade ships.

Ofc they will. WE HAD THIS ALREADY, i think you weren`t playing that time. If a drop rate is high enough, ships WILL BE in market, means anyone can buy them.

 

9 minutes ago, Capt Jubal Early said:

Econ will balance as it always does. Doesn't make the game boring.

It will make it boring in long terms, when anyone can sail those ships. We don`t have any econ in game, btw.....

 

10 minutes ago, Capt Jubal Early said:

Your either one type of player or the other. The one that hoards things for a rainy day or the one that uses his shiny things for enjoyment. You cant change that.

Well that is the whole point :) If gold/purple ships are too rare, noone will sail them, because afraid to lose, if they are NOT, anyone can have them. Ultimately nothing will be achieved with these steps....

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@admin

>>Removal of safe transport of upgrades

Situation: I'am craft new ship (at Christiansted) and need to FAST:

1. Outfit it
2. Teleport to Guayaguayare

My mates wait for me. I am TP to tradehubs to obtain modules, required by fleet meta, bought, TP back, TP ship, im ready, we are going fight.

Now need sail to La Tortue (for example) and back. ARE YOU SERIOUS????
IMHO, The killer of this game is not absent interface or localisation. Its too long sailing without any gameplay.

Time spented: 2 hours.
Pleasure taken: 0 (zero)

And now you want to force the clients to spend even more time on nothing

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Quote

Ofc they will. WE HAD THIS ALREADY, i think you weren`t playing that time. If a drop rate is high enough, ships WILL BE in market, means anyone can buy them.

Yeah I was playing before regional bonuses and after. I still think its necessary because it will increase the OW traffic. Make it possible to lock up a clans/nations crafting ports by RVR etc etc. Its a good thing. There clearly not going to reintroduce the regional bonuses they used to have but are by my estimation introduction a increase in chances of 4/5 or 5/5 rolls etc which is good.
 

Quote

It will make it boring in long terms, when anyone can sail those ships. We don`t have any econ in game, btw.....

Well then isn't the current meta boring by the same justification your giving? everyone currently sails 3/3's for pretty much all activities. Is that not boring?

PS
Regardless its happening, it was requested by many. Lets test it and see what it brings.

 

Edited by Capt Jubal Early
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