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Reinforcement fleets: feedback

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I got attacked by a Prussian Endymion around Beaufort the other day. I was in a rattlesnake (the one from the tutorials). I called reinforcements and got a bellepoule. I had to keep going towards it because it kept getting stuck in the wind. In the end I got the kill on the Endymion with the ai ship getting the assist. 

The reinforcements ships work but you gotta know what you’re doing. A new player or a care bear will still die because the ai ships are easy to control or out maneuver. From a solo hunters perspective, I like the current system

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The reinforcement ships are not effective for traders.  Perhaps they could spawn close beside the enemy.  One friendly  reinforcement ship beside each enemy ganker.   At least very close to your own nation's capital, it would be nice to have some protection that is a deterrent

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8 hours ago, King of Crowns said:

clearly stated by some one who doesn't pvp. PVE/NEWB has super ai reinforce zone. fortress/towers. open world AI. full 1 1/2 hour open battle in capital area that the enemy can freely choose the join location. none of these factors work towards the pvper. all of them work towards the newb. and any one of them could easily get you killed. 

what otto says here is 100% correct.   "AI should not do all the work of protecting home waters - players should do that. Battle beeing open for the whole duration is enough help. " until every nation runs a coast guard fleet they will loose players. GB has done a great job with their new coast guard. and it is working to save their newbs and create content. 

I actually do 10x the amount of solo PvP you do.  Do you even remember what that is?  I don’t roll out in first rates in the patrol zones or hide out on TS until I have enough people to show my face out of port with.  Most of my marks come from solo hunting during our off times (EU prime).  I’m exactly the type of feedback admin is looking for here. But leave it to you to grind that axe on every thread.

If this game has 2x or 3x the amount of players I would agree with you.  But it doesn’t.  With peak times in the 450 players range split into 11 different nations...The ability to put up a constant coast guard isn’t really an option for new people.  In lieu of the players protecting rookies and traders, the game itself has to.  If our goal is to retain players anyway.  If not the we should by all means continue on the course we’ve been going, we’ve been quickly running out of seals to club.  What then?

Another thought would be to provide game incentives to those who coast guard and protect traders and rookies.  Maybe more PVP marks for players killed inside the safe zone?  Would that encourage people to leave them though?  Doubtful.  I’m not sure what the answer is, but I do know that letting veteran players beat up PVE guys and rookies pretty much unchecked is a very good way to get people to quit the game.

I suppose we need admin to officially come up with a goal of how effective he wants the safe zones to be

 

 

Edited by Christendom

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I think the amount of reinforcement ships should depend on the rank of the player calling them. Up to the rank of Master and Commander, there should be 2 ships, up to the rank of Postcaptain there should be 1 ship and Admirals should not get any reinforcement at all. 

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13 hours ago, Intrepido said:

A new player playing in the reinforcement zone. Enjoy @admin

that was not in thereinforcement zone, he started a mission right outside the reinforcement zone but thought he were still inside

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On 5/8/2018 at 10:58 PM, Archaos said:

. Personally I used to attack a lot of AI fleets in the Belize green zone, now I have moved elsewhere. I have also heard of many solo hunters that avoid the green zones because of the forever open battles. 

This will be fixed next patch
Reinforcement zones will only be open forever for the owner of the zone
We will also allow attack of enemies by enemies in the capital waters (so enemy hunters cannot hide from other hunters behind the protection of capital)
 

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10 minutes ago, admin said:

This will be fixed next patch
Reinforcement zones will only be open forever for the owner of the zone
We will also allow attack of enemies by enemies in the capital waters (so enemy hunters cannot hide from other hunters behind the protection of capital)
 

Buff or improve npc behaviour. We are tired of all the guys crying and complaining about being ganked at safe zones. 

Also the three missions cancellation was one of the worst thing lately added. They share cancellation with everything!!! 

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Pls remove pve missions completely as we dont need that testing feature anymore

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1 hour ago, admin said:

This will be fixed next patch
Reinforcement zones will only be open forever for the owner of the zone
We will also allow attack of enemies by enemies in the capital waters (so enemy hunters cannot hide from other hunters behind the protection of capital)
 

Battles open for all are right now the only source of fun encounters with many enemies which are available right away (in NA terms this means 1-2h from sailing out) . If you make it open just for one side, you will remove this. I expect many players will leave then. There's no alternative option to get such battles. 

Having your capital nearby is already an advantage that works. 

Edited by vazco
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On 5/9/2018 at 8:11 AM, Sir Loorkon said:

I think the amount of reinforcement ships should depend on the rank of the player calling them. Up to the rank of Master and Commander, there should be 2 ships, up to the rank of Postcaptain there should be 1 ship and Admirals should not get any reinforcement at all. 

I kinda of like this but only the first half part.  Make it two ships to support any one Master Com and below and any one above that rank gets one ship.  Even Rear Admirals can use help specially if out number.

6 hours ago, admin said:

This will be fixed next patch
Reinforcement zones will only be open forever for the owner of the zone
We will also allow attack of enemies by enemies in the capital waters (so enemy hunters cannot hide from other hunters behind the protection of capital)
 

See he is a prime example of the problem, the solo hunters aren't the probelm it's the groups that come up and gank folks.  Those are who your hearing most the complaints about. Hell we don't mind the 1-2 guys groups hunting in our waters as it keeps us on our toes, it's when folks come up with 5-10 ships is the issue and than wonder why folks won't fight them cause they out class the lower levels and newer players big time.

These are good fix's I think in the right direction.  They should not be prime hunting grounds for PvP players.  That and the issue is why aren't these PvP players/hunters attacking each other.  Many of times I seen one or two groups just sitting outside of CT waiting for victims and not attacking each other.  Funny they are the same players on here we hear bitch about not enough PvP or RvR but some how they never attack each other....lol

6 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Buff or improve npc behaviour. We are tired of all the guys crying and complaining about being ganked at safe zones. 

Also the three missions cancellation was one of the worst thing lately added. They share cancellation with everything!!! 

The missions should be wipe clean at server reset. I shouldn't have to use my cancellations straight off on a new day cause I have missions left over the day before that i no longer need. 

6 hours ago, z4ys said:

Pls remove pve missions completely as we dont need that testing feature anymore

I would honestly leave them for up to a certain level.  Lets say Master Com as that is the mid level and you can make that with the exams, but not every one can pass it.  Cause really it's hard to find the lower rank ships around capital/deep water ports.  I would love to see more AI fleets of better mix for different level ships to be honest if the missions are touched at all. 

5 hours ago, vazco said:

Battles open for all are right now the only source of fun encounters with many enemies which are available right away (in NA terms this means 1-2h from sailing out) . If you make it open just for one side, you will remove this. I expect many players will leave then. There's no alternative option to get such battles. 

Having your capital nearby is already an advantage that works. 

Uh manybe they need to go pick a fight with another RvR/PvP nation and they will get fights instead of picking fights with new players, casuals and carebears?   You want to know how to get a fight?  Go flip a major port of a clan and you will get a reaction.  That what we been doing to get our fights.  When was the last time half these players actually went and did RvR?   I'm not talking about empty ports I'm talking about flipping a port in one of the prime time and fighting it out?  Take a look at all the port battles we had over the last few weeks and who actually started them and who hasn't done a single port battle.  I also don't mean to go flip a weak nations port.  You want a fight, you want RvR/PvP than pick a nation that can fight back and go pick a port of there's that is major econ.  When was the last time LIttle Harbour, Nassua, Cart, Estro's, La Navas.....etc any of the major money making ports been attacked?   I hear folks constantly saying, "There is no PvP."  Well go make it than, that is how it was done in POTBS you went to flip a port and put it into red (didn't even have to put it into Port battle) and you had PvP in front of that port.  You can do the same in game.  Go to one of those ports and do one set of missions and see how fast defenders come out and jump into your missions. If your such a great PvP folks than you would be doing stuff like this not camping capitals for your PvP.   You know why we have a lack of RvR/PvP?  Cause most of the PvP/RvR guys that are so call Vets/Elite refuse to fight each other for the most part.

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@admin

Another bad experience with reinforcements.

A guy get jumped in by heavy frigates (trinco and endymion). And what did he get as reinforcements? A reno and a cerberus!!!! Really, what a joke.

Edited by Intrepido

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Yep.  Time to remove "Missions" altogether...   promoting a false sense of security is worse that actually NOT providing any...

The sea is a dangerous and unforgiving mistress...

Time to take the training wheels off....

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26 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Yep.  Time to remove "Missions" altogether...   promoting a false sense of security is worse that actually NOT providing any...

The sea is a dangerous and unforgiving mistress...

Time to take the training wheels off....

Are you serious? There is already a massive lack of content in the game why would you remove what little there is. instead of introducing more.

I would like to see a lot more dynamic events including escort missions invasions all sorts of other stuff. Dont remove what little we have.

Edited by Fletch67

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6 minutes ago, Fletch67 said:

Are you serious? There is already a massive lack of content in the game why would you remove what little there is. instead of introducing more.

I would like to see a lot more dynamic events including escort missions invasions all sorts of other stuff. Dont remove what little we have.

I'm sure there's plenty of traders in nation that absolutely love an escort...  you should post something in chat.

Other than that, there is ZERO difference between "Missions" and finding AI fleets out in the OW (except for the fact that missions keep players from adding to the OW player-base)...

 

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5 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

I'm sure there's plenty of traders in nation that absolutely love an escort...  you should post something in chat.

Other than that, there is ZERO difference between "Missions" and finding AI fleets out in the OW (except for the fact that missions keep players from adding to the OW player-base)...

 

And attacking open world fleets helps you learn how to get a decent tag and use the wind

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NPC helpers in safe zone are a joke.

Instead we should have tiered zones. Inside of safe zones should be no player vs. player damage, no exceptions.  Players can still tag, duel, open missions, etc. but damage isn't registered between players of any nation.

For counties neighboring capitol zones PvP should be possible but with no ship capture or loss, only cargo looting/loss.

Outside capitol and neighboring counties, all things are fair game.

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Perhaps the green zone should be preserved for the new players to avoid easy PvP harvesting. 

The thought being that green zones should only apply to players up to a certain rank such that they can experience the delights of the game before they get throttled in their home harbour. In such circumstances AI reinforcement should revert to first rates on all occasions to deter the unscrupulous PvP green zone sniper.

To identify Willy the low rank enemy player in the green zone perhaps either:

  • his nation tag could appear green rather than red when he is identified or,
  • perhaps fly some sort of open world reinforcement flag (green?) making it the responsibility of the attacker to check his risk; with attacks in the dark in the green zone being very dangerous.

When attacked, ARSE the higher ranking player gets no AI reinforcement whatever at any time.

If a higher ranking player is attacked in the green zone then this should not drag in Willy the low ranker, Willy must choose to join a battle after the incidence starts and with no reinforcement.

By 'high ranking' I think this should apply to the top two ranks in each nation only. The last 120,000 XP points take a little bit longer! 

 

Buster (Choose, is it Red ARSE or Green Willy)

 

Edited by Busterbloodvessel

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Today Sweden rolled up outside FR with 20 something strong lineships, 10k BR during off times for France, and there was pretty much nothing to be done except frantically tell the over eager less experienced players to not join in suicide. The extended entry made it worse, because most of the experienced players saw the writing on the wall and left, so when new people joined we joined straight into the fray, outnumbered 20-3. They just sat there slaughtering the people slowly trickling in to try and help the guys getting ganked. Even though I entered far from the center of the circle, I spawned completely sandwiched by Swedish oceans and Santisimas. By the time my guns were loaded and sails set I was already below 75% health and hemorrhaging crew

You could blame this on big clans not wanting actual fights, and instead preferring easy pvp marks and l33t global bragging rights, or on France for not having a 20 player strong first rate coast guard ready in off times, or you could  blame it on the fact that this is the easiest way to get pvp marks en masse, and the game mechanics let you just roll up outside the enemy capital and jump into some frigate captain's battle to slaughter everything that enters it. (I personally say the latter)

At the end of the day, its absolutely terrible for the game. I'm not going to say how exactly to fix this, but its just... blegh. I logged off today having enjoyed little of what transpired. If this is the development's vision for what the game should look like on launch, I doubt I will still be here by that time.

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1 hour ago, Capt Aerobane said:

Today Sweden rolled up outside FR with 20 something strong lineships, 10k BR during off times for France, and there was pretty much nothing to be done except frantically tell the over eager less experienced players to not join in suicide. The extended entry made it worse, because most of the experienced players saw the writing on the wall and left, so when new people joined we joined straight into the fray, outnumbered 20-3. They just sat there slaughtering the people slowly trickling in to try and help the guys getting ganked. Even though I entered far from the center of the circle, I spawned completely sandwiched by Swedish oceans and Santisimas. By the time my guns were loaded and sails set I was already below 75% health and hemorrhaging crew

You could blame this on big clans not wanting actual fights, and instead preferring easy pvp marks and l33t global bragging rights, or on France for not having a 20 player strong first rate coast guard ready in off times, or you could  blame it on the fact that this is the easiest way to get pvp marks en masse, and the game mechanics let you just roll up outside the enemy capital and jump into some frigate captain's battle to slaughter everything that enters it. (I personally say the latter)

At the end of the day, its absolutely terrible for the game. I'm not going to say how exactly to fix this, but its just... blegh. I logged off today having enjoyed little of what transpired. If this is the development's vision for what the game should look like on launch, I doubt I will still be here by that time.

 

I didn't play the game today, but it's too bad to see.  Just another nail in the coffin for me though, I don't see much promise in the game.  Time for captain retirement, sigh. :(

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6 hours ago, Capt Aerobane said:

 Even though I entered far from the center of the circle, I spawned completely sandwiched by Swedish oceans and Santisimas.

That's just silly.  Why does this happen?  You would think that players entering late to a battle would start a long ways from the ships inside.

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On 5/11/2018 at 2:54 PM, Vernon Merrill said:

Yep.  Time to remove "Missions" altogether...   promoting a false sense of security is worse that actually NOT providing any...

The sea is a dangerous and unforgiving mistress...

Time to take the training wheels off....

Yes, please. Time to remove hostility missions altogether... Promoting easy gameplay in end game content is worse than actually NOT providing any...

The sea is dangerous and unforgiving mistress...

Time to force those RvR guys to PvP instead mindlessly bashing PvE fleets.

 

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On 5/10/2018 at 2:38 PM, z4ys said:

Pls remove pve missions completely as we dont need that testing feature anymore

This may be true for the players who have been in game for a long time and are maximum rank with most ship slots unlocked, but for new players missions are a relatively quick way to level up safely (hence all the calls for reverting the 3 mission cancellation so missions can be done in the safe zone). Once you are max level missions do not give you much apart from gold and and a place to grind slots safely, but by this time most max rank players have realized it is better to do OW AI fleets in some quiet corner of the map.

The problem I see with calls for removal of missions is that they are from experienced max rank players who just want more targets out in OW for them to hit. They seem to forget that when they started playing missions in various guises were one of the main ways of levelling. I remember the shouts that used to go out for people to do first rate missions and some of the now very experienced PvP players that used to be in them almost daily. Now you would never really dream of shouting out that you were doing OW non-greenzone missions in nation chat as it would be an invitation to get ganked. People forget how much the game has changed since they started and how the new player experience now is much different from when they were new players. 

 

On 5/10/2018 at 3:39 PM, vazco said:

Battles open for all are right now the only source of fun encounters with many enemies which are available right away (in NA terms this means 1-2h from sailing out) . If you make it open just for one side, you will remove this. I expect many players will leave then. There's no alternative option to get such battles. 

Having your capital nearby is already an advantage that works. 

Although I am a proponent of capital safe zones, I do also agree that the change in RoE in these zones have brought out some interesting PvP battles. The issue though still remains regarding the ganking of newbies in these zones. With the current RoE hunters will seldom initiate the attack so they have to jump into someones AI battle. Most experienced players do not do AI missions in the green zone so it means they must be jumping inexperienced players, the problem is you cannot always be guaranteed to get assistance as people are not sure if it is a trap. For example the other night right outside Belize port a couple of Spanish players jumped into an AI battle which was 1 player against 2 AI, another British player seeing this happen jumped in to assist in his Buc, only problem was that there were 10 more Spaniards ready to join the battle making the battle 14v2 (12 players and 2 AI against 2 Players). Three of us who had been out hunting the Spanish around Placentia arrived but it was pointless joining as it would have meant throwing our ships away, we called out in nation but at the time of night there was just not enough players to be able to take on such a force, so the two in battle were left to their fate. I can guarantee the player who jumped in to assist in his brand new Buc will not do that again in a hurry.

Maybe if they want to keep such a feature they could apply it to other areas rather than green zones, but I think you would find that those zones would be deserted.

I would also like to point out that I am one of those so called "carebear" players who was always doing PvE in the safe zones when they were safe, but now that I have ground out most of my ship slots and completed the important skill books I have started to PvP more. So people do graduate from PvE to PvP.

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40 minutes ago, Archaos said:

This may be true for the players who have been in game for a long time and are maximum rank with most ship slots unlocked, but for new players missions are a relatively quick way to level up safely (hence all the calls for reverting the 3 mission cancellation so missions can be done in the safe zone). Once you are max level missions do not give you much apart from gold and and a place to grind slots safely, but by this time most max rank players have realized it is better to do OW AI fleets in some quiet corner of the map.

...

The quickest way to rank up is to do the tutorial and get M&C rank. M&C is fine to start pvping. The need to be max lvl is a deception developed by mmos like World of Warcraft and other games where high tier always beats low tier. NA isnt such a game personal skills vs enemy skill matters more than ship rate.

The need to get full Ship knowledge is an other deception. New players dont have books other the standard ones. Missions offer no books because of reduced loot (only ow ships not in the carezone have high chance for books) So actually new players that have no clue about the drop mechanic wasting their time by doing missions. Furtheremore I got told in many occasions that mods + books are overrated that their bonus is so small that they actually change nothing so why waste time here?

Missions are a fake feature that trick the player. The player thinks that he is doing something that will reward him but actually he is shooting oneself in the foot. He places oneself into a spiral of grind that lets him not enjoy the game.

So I welcome any advance that breaks this grind spiral and that let the players see clear. Missions are a thorn in the side that do more harm than good.

Edited by z4ys
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