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Reinforcement fleets: feedback

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1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

The brilliant outcome right now is more new players complaining in nation chat and probably leaving the game sooner.

Send them here to this topic once it happens - (its an admiralty order ;))

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1 minute ago, admin said:

Send them here to this topic once it happens - (its an admiralty order ;))

I encourage people to use this part of the forum but language barrier and lazyness are our worst enemies.

Keep in mind that I try hard to think in what is best for the game, and we need those players to keep the game going. They will go pvp when they are ready for it.

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5 minutes ago, admin said:

This design has the purpose

Because reinforcements are mirrored - if you hunt in a 6th rate you will get an ineffective reinforcement. 
If you hunt in heavy frigate or a third rate - reinforced 4th rate will provide serious challenge

This promotes hunting in light ships. I think its sort of brilliant unexpected outcome of the mirror as we always wanted to encourage hunting in light ships like real privateers. 

Yea but PVPers already have EVERY advantage in this game.  You need to throw a bone to the little people or they will stop playing.  Which it seems they already have.  

Players like Dron and Moscalb are going to sink players wherever they are found regardless of what changes are made to the game.  We shouldn't be making it easier for them.  We should be making it easier for the guy who's been playing 2 days and just sailed out in his brand new surprise outside his nation's capital where presumably he thinks and HISTORICALLY he would be safe.  Except now he isn't. 

This perhaps the only MMO i've played that has factions (nations) and if you travel 2 mins outside your capital you can lose everything.  This should not be a thing.

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3 minutes ago, victor said:

I do not think that a player that has already decided to leave the game would like to waste his time in coming on the forums.

Only players that still care still complain.

those who left cannot read chat :)
We are interested in those who want to complain about the reinforcements and still read chat.

 

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I actually took an old Endymion into Brit waters last night to test out reworked reinforcement zones.  Hit a TBrig, and he got... a Belle Poule, if memory serves.  The BP didn't really do anything, but the player was kinda slow on the uptake and kept trying to run instead of hooking up with the Belle Poule.

Eventually, he got other players in the fight, became something like a 10v1, and I kamikaze'd him to take out the TBrig, and was sunk after a while in the process.

My take-away?  Reinforcements are only as useful as the player who calls them.  If the player does not care to stick by them, they're going to be useless.  Other players who come in and who can guide the player will give better guidance in real time, and say something like, "Hey, sail towards us and we can protect you."

I'd say they work as intended.  They can scare off a player (or not, if the player doesn't care about the ship), but not guarantee that the invader is sunk for daring to sail into a protection zone.

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Just now, Christendom said:

Yea but PVPers already have EVERY advantage in this game.  You need to throw a bone to the little people or they will stop playing.  Which it seems they already have.  

 

Would love to talk about reinforcements mirrors and their strength and numbers. Not individual skill of some veterans. :)


Lets also not forget that there is PVE ONLY server just in case.

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1 minute ago, Wind said:

solid content foundation

Hard to have one of these when people aren't even safe sailing 2mins outside their own capitals.  

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Just now, victor said:

Mind I wrote that "decided to leave", not that "have left". 😎

Sorry for off topic. 
Please don't be upset or angry about players who leave. 80% of players leave even hit games. 40% of of players have not even reached the first boss in DS3. 
We should focus on increasing the inflow - irrespective from the inflow 80% will always leave. WOT drop off was above 87%. 

But if someone plans to leave because of reinforcement specifically - we would like them to come to comment
 

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1 minute ago, Christendom said:

Hard to have one of these when people aren't even safe sailing 2mins outside their own capitals.  

but remember it was more harsh on release. You could even attack your own. Do you have any theories on why you are connecting safety with online?

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7 minutes ago, admin said:

Would love to talk about reinforcements mirrors and their strength and numbers. Not individual skill of some veterans. :)


Lets also not forget that there is PVE ONLY server just in case.

So why did you ask for feedback? Who is chasing outside capitals? Noobs or veterans?

It seems that we have already the final answers: reinforcement work as intended by being close to useless for an unskilled player against a skilled one (while their purpose should be - in my personal opinions - the opposite).

As far as direct feedback I cannot provide, since I switched to "cautious mode" trading as in the good old days of no reinforcements (but also of no PVP marks!), so I just use tricks to avoid hunters rather that having to use (useless) reinforcements.

 

Edited by victor

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if the intention is safe but not invulnerable area  - mission accomplished

Why? Because imba 1st rates made it impossible to raid, yet it is possible under risk to still raid enemy shipping in the fleet reinforcement area. But as always new players dont benefit by those reinforcement fleets because

  • they dont know how to call
  • they run in the wrong direction
  • they dont stick with the reinforcement fleets

 

Edited by z4ys
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1 minute ago, admin said:

Would love to talk about reinforcements mirrors and their strength and numbers. Not individual skill of some veterans. :)


Lets also not forget that there is PVE ONLY server just in case.

Lets talk about the AI strength. I know well AI is one of the most hard thing to code, the real challenge for games atm.

In NA, our AI get stuck against the wind. Close to land, it goes full retard. They dont fire when you are very close. They fire at bad angles. They miss a lot at medium range.

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I think the more serious question should be what is the actual purpose of the reinforcement zones, what are they supposed to achieve. Till you actually define what they are supposed to achieve then it is difficult to tell if they are effective or not.

If I remember correct when they were first introduced one of the responses to the OP first rates that appeared as reinforcements was that they were supposed to be like the security forces in Eve (cant remember their name offhead) that turned up and destroyed violators. Since then things have changed with the new RoE and lesser reinforcements in the zones without a real explanation of what you are trying to achieve in these zones. Are they supposed to be safe zones for players or are they supposed to be hot beds of PvP action, because at the moment they seem to be seeing more PvP action than the PvP zones.

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On a general basis it sounds very strange to me that all the hunters in this topic say that the reinfocements are ok, when such features should be there to defend the preys.

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3 minutes ago, victor said:

On a general basis it sounds very strange to me that all the hunters in this topic say that the reinfocements are ok, when such features should be there to defend the preys.

They are ok, just need to spawn right next to the player. 

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2 minutes ago, victor said:

On a general basis it sounds very strange to me that all the hunters in this topic say that the reinfocements are ok, when such features should be there to defend the preys.

I couldnt agree more, the hunters think they are okay because they can be overcome with a bit of skill, the problem is that all the prey that have any sense are doing their best to ensure they are not in a position to need reinforcements and so are unable to give feedback on the issue. As usual it is the inexperienced players that are taking the hit as they try to run and actually get further away from the help. Are these zones supposed to help new and inexperienced players or not?

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7 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I couldnt agree more, the hunters think they are okay because they can be overcome with a bit of skill, the problem is that all the prey that have any sense are doing their best to ensure they are not in a position to need reinforcements and so are unable to give feedback on the issue. As usual it is the inexperienced players that are taking the hit as they try to run and actually get further away from the help. Are these zones supposed to help new and inexperienced players or not?

Making suggestions that could pose risk to their main mark income would be silly. That is why we get such responses. New player responses needed here.  

Edited by Wind
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I have spoken to several players on this subject.  The hunters are laughing at the reinforcments because they are so easy to avoid and the newer players who are attacked in the green zone are astonished that their reinforcments are so useless.  Nation chat is full of players complaining about reinforcements that don't help.  I'd say that it is a failure in this incarnation.  If you want it to effectively protect players in the green zone, this is not it.  It is definitely no challenge to the hunters.

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39 minutes ago, Otto Kohl said:

AI should not do all the work of protecting home waters - players should do that. Battle beeing open for the whole duration is enough help.

+1

Absolutely.

 

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13 minutes ago, Wind said:

Making suggestions that could pose risk to their main mark income would be silly. That is why we get such responses. New player responses needed here.  

That is true, but I thought the aim of the forum was to get true feedback so as to develop the game that would be better for all.

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AI reinforcements keeps me away from capital areas as I'm not in the least interested in fighting bots, regardless of how easy they may be too disregard or beat.

I don't care about new or old players hiding in reinforcement zones. I only care about those who want to fight, so when I have time I go to patrol zones.

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if the protection zone/reinforcement zone is supposed to protect new players from being attacked, then the desired effect has failed.

At this point we shouldn't even have a protection zone since it's become a false hope for players. Better to let reality be "it's harsh" then to give a false sense of security.
 

so...what do you want the protection/safe zone to be Admin?

Edited by Teutonic
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47 minutes ago, Otto Kohl said:

AI should not do all the work of protecting home waters - players should do that. Battle beeing open for the whole duration is enough help.

I would agree if the battle was only open for the whole duration to the side whose reinforcement zone was, but too many times recently the always open battle has been used to set a trap for a larger force, so people are wary about joining unless they have overwhelming force and even then they probably take a beating against a prepared force of attackers. If the attackers lose then they cry that it was only because the defenders had larger numbers and if they win they gloat that they defeated a much larger force, there is no win scenario for the defenders.

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