Partial materials wipe - advanced warning

[Jim Tiberius]

For craft to be really challenging and require skill, it would have first to allow one to chose wood and alloy for several ship part.

Second it would need to include a risk factor. Depending on the components one chooses, the chances of getting higher grade ship (with good trims and more permanent slots) would increase with a good risk of scrapping the ship attached to it. In simple works, you can take the risk and increase the chance of getting a purple/gold grade ship, but if you are not luck you get nothing and still spend the material.

If this could be done, then we are in the path for a good crafting system.

Note: A good crafter chooses wisely the ship's permanent modules to match with the chosen wood and achieve the desirable result, so this is also part of the crafting system, as most people might not realize it. 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Jim Tiberius

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

6 hours ago, Jim Tiberius said:

For craft to be really challenging and require skill, it would have first to allow one to chose wood and alloy for several ship part.

Second it would need to include a risk factor. Depending on the components one chooses, the chances of getting higher grade ship (with good trims and more permanent slots) would increase with a good risk of scrapping the ship attached to it. In simple works, you can take the risk and increase the chance of getting a purple/gold grade ship, but if you are not luck you get nothing and still spend the material.

If this could be done, then we are in the path for a good crafting system.

Note: A good crafter chooses wisely the ship's permanent modules to match with the chosen wood and achieve the desirable result, so this is also part of the crafting system, as most people might not realize it. 

 

 

That's what I meant by "dermining ship quality by quality of each ingredient you use for fine-tuning the performance of the ship". A wonderful outlook. It would be a fest for us shipwrights. Let the sportsmen blow up everything to pieces... they will come back for more.

[Ink]

Some information about material conversion, please note that this is not a final decision and changes are still possible.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wskSxkK0nJXCQ-Z-DxJcVFXu_ztPKo0huf4SUHbKQ24/edit#gid=0

 

[admin]

On 6/6/2018 at 2:09 PM, Peter Peacemaker said:

Ship building should be a simulation game in the game. Ships must be rare stuff, especially first rates! Now they are going to be easy to get like a bubblegum from an automat. The game is loosing! PvP'es won again over the Devs threatning with and speaking about loosing players base if they don't jump through their burning tire ...
 

Yes. In theory shipbuilding MUST be a simulation game with enough depth to be able to viable as a stand alone economy game. 
Otherwise it should not be wasting time by making unnecessary clicks things. 

Shipbuilding was added for testing based on user requests and initial design did not have shipbuilding planned (because nelson have not built a single ship in his life). But its in game now, because players requested it even in the simple form.. 

Lets be honest. There is no skill in cutting oak logs into oak frame parts. Why have frame parts?
 

[Wind]

12 minutes ago, admin said:

Yes. In theory shipbuilding MUST be a simulation game with enough depth to be able to viable as a stand alone economy game. 
Otherwise it should not be wasting time by making unnecessary clicks things.

Lets be honest. There is no skill in cutting oak logs into oak frame parts. Why have frame parts?

That is why you need to add recipes for such actions. You can't cut plank if you don't know how. So here is a book(drops) for you, read it and learn it. Done. 

Book example - Encyclopedia of Woodworking Vol 1, 2, 3, 4

When you have enough knowledge you can build a 1st rate. This approach makes crafting very flavorful. 

By simplifying it you make it dull, but for NA it will do just fine.  

Edited June 7, 2018 by Wind

[z4ys]

25 minutes ago, Wind said:

That is why you need to add recipes for such actions. You can't cut plank if you don't know how. So here is a book(drops) for you, read it and learn it. Done. 

Book example - Encyclopedia of Woodworking Vol 1, 2, 3, 4

...

That was a good one. Skill books and especially encyclopedias ruin gameplay by making a 5slot ship a 18 slot ship. So Ofc let us even add more and build more walls. Sorry but that's just a wrong approach. That's not content that is building a ladder of fake content.

[Wind]

46 minutes ago, z4ys said:

That was a good one. Skill books and especially encyclopedias ruin gameplay by making a 5slot ship a 18 slot ship. So Ofc let us even add more and build more walls. Sorry but that's just a wrong approach. That's not content that is building a ladder of fake content.

As you say. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

I'm actually looking at this list and the first thing I'm thinking is, "If they dumb down crafting way to much it's going to make crafting boring for the folks that actually like trading and crafting."  You make it to easy you will loose those players. I already think we nerfed crafting a bit to much compared to how it use to be a good job to be a crafter all on it's own.  Now any one can craft any thign and don't even have to be level maxed out to get the best ships from it.  Really what do you need level 35 (45 for 1st rates) only to get all the ships?

Edited June 7, 2018 by Sir Texas Sir

[z4ys]

4 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I'm actually looking at this list and the first thing I'm thinking is, "If they dumb down crafting way to much it's going to make crafting boring for the folks that actually like trading and crafting."  You make it to easy you will loose those players. I already think we nerfed crafting a bit to much compared to how it use to be a good job to be a crafter all on it's own.  Now any one can craft any thign and don't even have to be level maxed out to get the best ships from it.  Really what do you need level 35 (45 for 1st rates) only to get all the ships?

you need 25 pvp marks thats all you need.

[cztim]

2 hours ago, Ink said:

Some information about material conversation, please note that this is not a final decision and changes are still possible.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wskSxkK0nJXCQ-Z-DxJcVFXu_ztPKo0huf4SUHbKQ24/edit#gid=0

 

Thanks for update.  With this conversion looks like all gold/silver ingots should be converted to coins and then all coins sold.  Who wants coal from gold or silver?   Sounds like alchemy gone all wrong!

Any better date guess for implementation of these changes?

[Greysteak]

1 hour ago, cztim said:

With this conversion looks like all gold/silver ingots should be converted to coins and then all coins sold.  Who wants coal from gold or silver?

 Hard to know that for sure without knowing the new ship building material requirements.  What if ships end up requiring much more coal than before?

[Sea Fox]

Do away with mods. Make every ship 5 slots. Turn the mod or upgrade into a permanent installation of the newly crafted ship. Instead of cartajena tar upgrade it is built into the ship. Crafters can then build a totally customizable ship with different woods and different upgrade component features. Crafters will be happy and certain ship designs will actually be worth money. 

This will bring the ships value up higher than the upgrade value. As it is now you could sell a pretty good upgrade like cartajena tar and buy three or four very good ships. Not realistic at all

Edited June 7, 2018 by Sea Fox

[JDAM]

7 hours ago, admin said:

Yes. In theory shipbuilding MUST be a simulation game with enough depth to be able to viable as a stand alone economy game. 
Otherwise it should not be wasting time by making unnecessary clicks things. 

Shipbuilding was added for testing based on user requests and initial design did not have shipbuilding planned (because nelson have not built a single ship in his life). But its in game now, because players requested it even in the simple form.. 

Lets be honest. There is no skill in cutting oak logs into oak frame parts. Why have frame parts?
 

@admin I love your game, you have built a wonderful little MMO that is a lot of fun and thank you for that, but it is relaxing to some to have this much depth in the game.  All games are "fake clicks" if you will, but it is the immersion that allows us to escape for a short time into your little virtual reality you created and really get into the game.  It makes it an epic experience vs a cheap experience.  Imagine your new UI with all these items with beautiful little graphics to depict them all with the quanties right next to it.  It would make you feel like you've built a stockpile you build your warships and traders from.  That would make your game much more valuable and when you get to full release attract more buyers for the quality of work you put into it and the valuable product.  It makes it a great experience for all, including the PVPer.  `

 

 

[Raf Van Boom]

I want to play Nelson, Jack Aubrey, the captain of the Acheron not a carpenter.

[BallsOfSteel]

Crafting died when everyone could just buy permits, only crafters should be able to get them at level.

Part of the cost of the ship

Thats the only way you will make it worthwhile for crafters

 

[Capt Jubal Early]

Simples purpose of the game is Naval action. Not Naval resource spread sheet clicky game.

Lets test it see if it boosts the amount of crafters (which it will), see the effect on the in game econ then judgment.

 

[admin]

17 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I'm actually looking at this list and the first thing I'm thinking is, "If they dumb down crafting way to much it's going to make crafting boring for the folks that actually like trading and crafting."  You make it to easy you will loose those players. I already think we nerfed crafting a bit to much compared to how it use to be a good job to be a crafter all on it's own.  Now any one can craft any thign and don't even have to be level maxed out to get the best ships from it.  Really what do you need level 35 (45 for 1st rates) only to get all the ships?

I agree. But here is the thing
If we want to improve crafting the team must drop everything else to deliver something complete, adding skill and depth to crafting. We cant start improving crafting now, due to bigger priorities.
But there are some things in crafting that are just forcing unnecessary clicks on the player - oak logs to frame parts for example. They dont actually give depth to our opinion because you cant make better frame parts due to your level or you cant make them more efficiently than others (while in other elements of the game you CAN be more efficient due to knowledge).

Removing extra clicks and unnecessary hassle is a good thing. Think about it this way. You deliver logs and iron etc to a shipyard or workshops, they know what to do. you dont need to mill planks yourself. 

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

8 hours ago, Le Raf Boom said:

I want to play Nelson, Jack Aubrey, the captain of the Acheron not a carpenter.

Those would have to swim in the ocean if there were no shipwrights and carpenters equipping them with good ships. And so can you be equipped and everyone has his fun.

[admin]

2 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Those would have to swim in the ocean if there were no shipwrights and carpenters equipping them with good ships. And so can you be equipped and everyone has his fun.

we keep logistical challenges (and removing barrels does not reduce logistical challenges). in addition we will rebalance weights and prices to better historical numbers a bit (making logistics significantly more important) 

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

18 hours ago, admin said:

Lets be honest. There is no skill in cutting oak logs into oak frame parts. Why have frame parts?

Ask a good cabinetmaker in your neighborhood. There is skill in everything. And wood is not the same wood, it can differ in quality, which the carpenter/cabinetmaker has to evaluate and dismiss the worse material. Which all has effect on the resulting product, no matter if a writing desk or a ship.

Furthermore, he can have good tools or he can have bad tools which spoil the result. Or helpers who don't know their trade because they were chosen for being cheap workforce. Wood which was not allowed to dry out long enough before being processed into frames, because Admiralty was in a hurry. Et cetera.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Cetric de Cornusiac

[admin]

1 minute ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Ask a good cabinetmaker in your neighborhood. There is skill in everything. And wood is not the same wood, it can differ in quality, which the carpenter/cabinetmaker has to evaluate and dismiss the worse material. Which all has effect on the resulting product, no matter if a writing desk or a ship.

Exactly. thats why extra clicks must be removed until this difference in quality can be implemented in crafting. (for example by setting up efficient production lines on land you bought or conquered like in factorio) 

[Slim McSauce]

20 minutes ago, admin said:

I agree. But here is the thing
If we want to improve crafting the team must drop everything else to deliver something complete, adding skill and depth to crafting. We cant start improving crafting now, due to bigger priorities.
But there are some things in crafting that are just forcing unnecessary clicks on the player - oak logs to frame parts for example. They dont actually give depth to our opinion because you cant make better frame parts due to your level or you cant make them more efficiently than others (while in other elements of the game you CAN be more efficient due to knowledge).

Removing extra clicks and unnecessary hassle is a good thing.  

this 100% gives me immense hope for the game and I cannot wait for this patch to hit.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Sir Texas Sir]

19 minutes ago, admin said:

I agree. But here is the thing
If we want to improve crafting the team must drop everything else to deliver something complete, adding skill and depth to crafting. We cant start improving crafting now, due to bigger priorities.
But there are some things in crafting that are just forcing unnecessary clicks on the player - oak logs to frame parts for example. They dont actually give depth to our opinion because you cant make better frame parts due to your level or you cant make them more efficiently than others (while in other elements of the game you CAN be more efficient due to knowledge).

Removing extra clicks and unnecessary hassle is a good thing. Think about it this way. You deliver logs and iron etc to a shipyard or workshops, they know what to do. you dont need to mill planks yourself. 

Just promise me you improved the sliders of most of the stuff?   I know some of them where inrcressed but that was the biggest thing I have hated about crafting since day one. If I have 2K hours I should be able to slide that item and produce 2K hours of it in one motion not click on it 100 times.  Even worse I have to click and than hit ESC cause the UI idles for ever stuck on the OK pop up confirmation for most of us on the other side of the pound.   Fix those things and I'll defiantly be happy with what ever new UI you give us.  We can work on the crafting perks and stuff latter for sure as it needs a face lift as it's very out dated.   

[Sir Texas Sir]

16 hours ago, cztim said:

Thanks for update.  With this conversion looks like all gold/silver ingots should be converted to coins and then all coins sold.  Who wants coal from gold or silver?   Sounds like alchemy gone all wrong!

Any better date guess for implementation of these changes?

I have to say a slight ETA date would be nice.  While I"m slowly doing this with my gold and silver but we still need some of these mats until the patch hits so we have to produce them up till than.

Crap forgot to ask.  What about stuff in clan warehouse, will it just convert over to the new resources and the same with stuff in your port warehouse so you will have just big stacks of the new resources instead of the several stacks of the old?  While I don't think this is going to be a problem in the clan warehouse, but I can see stack limit and space problems in the port warehouses of players.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Sir Texas Sir

[admin]

5 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Just promise me you improved the sliders of most of the stuff? 

yes. this is going away (but will be done by July because its a part of the port UI)