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rediii

Problems of NA

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4 hours ago, rediii said:

1. No way of training players of your own nation

Please implement duelroom or "ask for duel" rightclick on a player like every mmo has

 

2. Patrolzones

patrolzones are too ganky. We need a antigankmechanic to make them much better. Drag of everyone but joining only for low BR side and only to even out BR or to have 1.5x the BR of the enemy.

Nothing wrong with any of the other points, but these two lie very close to my heart.

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Following these operations, on 28 January 1815 Napier issued a challenge to the captain of US frigate Constellation to meet Euryalus in single-ship combat.[31]Constellation's captain, Charles Gordon, accepted, but Euryalus was first required for the naval operations preceding the Battle of New Orleans and then peace was signed before the engagement could take place. Napier wrote to Captain Gordon that he was glad they were at peace, but should that situation change 'I trust we shall have an opportunity of being better acquainted'.[32]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Euryalus_(1803)

 

 

Anyway I agree with most of the points but they are only small upgrade of what we now have in game and for release that still wont be enough.

What we got:

Great and realistic combat mechanic but being under constant rework taking most of developers time.

We are missing:

- General end game goal - Currently its only gathering marks, buying/crafting upgrades, fitting ships, fighting, loosing ships, rinse and repeat. People play only for this thread:

And if they are bored but stubborn enough to still play the game they are looking for content changing nation and starting over again. We need PvP ranks one way or another to give people some longtime purpose in playing also rewarding differently for defeating more experienced opponents. Introduce admiralty achievemenets with rewards for various deeds. Taking part in PB of every port in one county, sinking number of players around location, succesfully finishing raid goals, exploring trading etc different for every nation.

- RvR needs total rework - Patrol zones proved that people are tired and bored of NA RvR. Its again just rinse and repeat for the battle itself and certainly not for the port. We need raids and Pb's separately in game. Raids could be fast group effort PvP or PvE (doesnt matter as sailing players create content for others) where the goal would be to win against boom chain defences, beach tower defending acces to important hill or burning enemy fleet gathering in the port ( achieving all goals in city PB timer should be greatly rewarded).

Cities conquest needs to mean something. Tax is not enough.  Battle itself should be server event with captains of every nation showing up and being rewarded for tasks arund PB area.

- OW needs more life. PvE is not the main game goal on PvP server but is a great tool to increase trafic in OW. Reward properly sailing outside safe zone. Make it interesting with various events. Named AI opponents, more interesting loot from npcs, give us a small chance to capture good ship  from AI 4-5 -5 even if it will be only 5% chance. People will sail out of ports for that. 

- Game needs more variety when it comes to the role you can take. Combat captain, trading captain, crafter, explorer needs their own separate traits, upgrades and should provide different benefits and achievements. Introduce exploring ships able to report enemy movement around scouted area with lets say 10-15 mins delay, events, current goods prices etc visible on the map in the form of lifting fog of war. In combat instance those could be used as support ships able to report enemy ships trims and builds.

- Pirates! They badly need rework to finnaly be pirates for real.

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread a bit but I believe that to achieve great game ( and there is huge potential in NA for that) you first need to develop game general goals and tweak them accordingly after. This is the real problem of NA

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1 hour ago, RaimundoJoe said:

...

except the fact that you are talking bullshit I would welcome a success like pubg of a 2nd NA :)

 

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Adding missing content AFTER a release is not a good idea. It must be done before release.

You get the reviews of the game at release, not one year after its release. See all the critics to games line No Mans Sky or Sea of Thieves, all the negatives will be still there even if you improve the game after release.

 

Right now NA is on decline due to loss of many RvR players because of the lack of sense of conquering ports (which clan is really willing to pay 600k every day and get very little in return?). Ports change hands and who cares, sometimes you feel better without some dots that make you lose money, effort and time.

Devs have no idea how f´ucked is RvR. And around RvR there is trade (money, upgrades, woods) and pvp (screening...), so until the current system is tweaked there is little sense to play NA.

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7 hours ago, rediii said:

1. No way of training players of your own nation

Please implement duelroom or "ask for duel" rightclick on a player like every mmo has

I do think having a duel room is very important if you want to get more people interested in PvP. Let people try PvP battles without fear of losing their ship in a place where someone can give them advice on what to do. At the moment its too hardcore, you just have to go out there and learn the hard way which leads to many people either staying safe and only fighting AI or giving up on the game if they take too many losses.

A duel room should allow you set up various scenarios, such as small ship vs larger ship, or 1v2 or even full port battles. When people are more confident in their abilities to PvP then they will more likely PvP in the open world.

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7 hours ago, rediii said:

5. repairs 

We can tow ships but not repairs. Maybe tow of 200 weight a day shoupd be possible?

 

Be careful with this, if you allow any weight to be teleported in tow then there will be no need to transport skill books in ships, the same will apply to a lot of rare crafting materials. I guess you could limit it to just repairs/rum that can be towed in limited quantities rather than a set weight which would be open to abuse.

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redii has hit it on the head.  These should be done for release in my opinion. 

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Do you understand devs did not say a word about these great suggestions. Why are you even fighting here? They know better. 

Edited by Montauban

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8 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

Safezones are an affect not a cause, the reason we even talk about safezones is because there is no pvp facilitation around the map, devs have failed to build a game around OW.

Yup.  And ONE of the big contributors is the extremely weak player-driven economy that is currently concentrated around capitals. No contract visibility without entering a port.

Fix THAT and there will be something  to draw people out.

Which incidentally will help fix the economy on the PvE server.  Spent a bit of time thrashing about with that. Which MIGHT be a contributor in why some safe zone folks are not using it.  Without a robust player economy it does't take long to run out of interesting things to do.

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8 hours ago, rediii said:

I dont agree that RvR is boring nor I agree with it not being connected to OW. You do hosti in OW, you sail there and sail back. I know you want to have a tug of war (probably?) but I disagree with it TBH because then it will be just a 1st rate heavy gankfest or only 25 vs 25 in 1st rates.

Repairs would work better with a higher pop. its a nice moneymaker.

I wan't OW mechanics like patrols but connected to RVR. Other things too but that's the easiest way to explain it. As an OW player I have no reason to involve myself with RVR, it doesn't benefit me in any way and I can't benefit to it without being the guy in the actual PB. I could get around the PB itself being only 1 battles if the rest of the time it was like an actual war where heavy fighting was promoted around the area and more of a big event for everyone in the nation who wants to show, not just the 12-25 pb guys and the screening fleets which are usually the same 25 1st rates.

As for the other things I agree with the goal completely, the execution not always but you bring up good points.

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Just now, Marcus Corvus said:

Yup.  And ONE of the big contributors is the extremely weak player-driven economy that is currently concentrated around capitals. No contract visibility without entering a port.

Fix THAT and there will be something  to draw people out.

Which incidentally will help fix the economy on the PvE server.  Spent a bit of time thrashing about with that. Which MIGHT be a contributor in why some safe zone folks are not using it.  Without a robust player economy it does't take long to run out of interesting things to do.

Yes, kinda I agree. But there's a lot more to it than that.

For example, ports don't have a population of people inside. The economy acts if people on ships are the only things that exist in the world which is bizarre, there's a better word that I can't think of atm but it's super odd and off putting that the game misses the most basic of world building aspects.

That and a lack of any info on OW. It's like admiralty doesn't actually exists outside a store and you're expected to sail blind without any tools, any reports, any dispatches or intel like it's an alternate 18th century where nothing exists outside player ships. Again it's a big wtf and screams alpha stage development when you're missing such big things. No life to OW whatsoever.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Yes, kinda I agree. But there's a lot more to it than that.

For example, ports don't have a population of people inside. The economy acts if people on ships are the only things that exist in the world which is bizarre, there's a better word that I can't think of atm but it's super odd and off putting that the game misses the most basic of world building aspects.

That and a lack of any info on OW. It's like admiralty doesn't actually exists outside a store and you're expected to sail blind without any tools, any reports, any dispatches or intel like it's an alternate 18th century where nothing exists outside player ships. Again it's a big wtf and screams alpha stage development when you're missing such big things. No life to OW whatsoever.

 

 

Question is why there is no population? Game numbers seem to slowly shrink. Can you explain in your own words what are the main causes of this? and I will write my point of view, so we can compare.  

Edited by Montauban

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5 hours ago, rediii said:

Outposts: I think 5 outposts + every free port would be perfect. Why? Because you dont need to sail endless anymore. Everyone should have all freeports as a standard.

 

Not unless buy/sell contracts are put on the same footing in the trader tool as port stock.

Outposts are currently the only practical way for a serious merchant to get around not being able to see contract activity without visiting a port.  I am currently maxed out at 8 permits.  I could use more.

I don't have time screw around with alts to fix this either.

 

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@rediii great and must ideas for this game which are supported by many.

@Borch very good ideas again.

I hope developers make a sharp turn and start to implement these kind of stuff.

New ui and map, tutorial, supported by these ideas, like a dream.

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41 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Yes, kinda I agree. But there's a lot more to it than that.

And I absolutely agree.  But the busted Econ 101 is a fundamental functional bottleneck.

If that doesn't work a lot of OTHER necessary fixes will have very little impact.

Only a partial analogy but think of the economy as fuel for the car.  You don't drive the car so you can put fuel in it. But when you run out of fuel...

Edited by Marcus Corvus

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14 minutes ago, Montauban said:

Question is why there is no population? Game numbers seem to slowly shrink. Can you explain in your own words what are the main causes of this? and I will write my point of view, so we can compare.  

I pretty much wrote it. The game is a bizarre take on age of sail, where the battles are ultra realistic and tuned to reality (as much as it can be to still be a fun game)
but OW is this weird, alternate place that doesn't follow the same style at all. It's completely dead and void of all life. Literally only you and other players exists as real entities, everything else doesn't exists, there is no simulation of anything outside of ships at sea.

the reality of OW doesn't match up to battles at all, there's almost 0 connection between the two besides port colors and maybe battle join positions. Super strange and probably very off-putting to people just joining and the first thing they see is this void of an OW.

It's a hard thing to really explain in words but take a look at Total War's campaign map and put it side by side with NA's OW and you will see the difference. One makes sense, is full of life and info that connects directly to not only real world reality, but in game reality as well. While NA has probably the most cryptic OW of any game I've ever played.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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I think the void of the ocean is ... just like an ocean is like. Don't change that. This void is the room for maneuvering, for disappearing, for secret missions, for raiders approaching and interceptors swarming out.... we need the void of the ocean for actually all operations on the high seas. I don't want to see it "full of life". Better is to put full life on our ships in terms of crew management and in the ports by more things there.

Edited by Cetric de Cornusiac
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23 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

I think the void of the ocean is ... just like an ocean is like. Don't change that. This void is the room for maneuvering, for disappearing, for secret missions, for raiders approaching and interceptors swarming out.... we need the void of the ocean for actually all operations on the high seas. I don't want to see it "full of life". Better is to put full life on our ships in terms of crew management and in the ports by more things there.

That's not the point though. Saying the ocean should stay a void implies the void is limited to the ocean. The entire map is a void. 

Edited by Slim McSauce

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9 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Saying the ocean should stay a void implies the void is limited to the ocean. The entire map is a void. 

We are not playing in the middle of the Atlantic. I don't see a lack of content. There's a felt thousand islands to navigate around.

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1 minute ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

We are not playing in the middle of the Atlantic. I don't see a lack of content. There's a felt thousand islands to navigate around.

Where's the people on these island? Where's the economy being produced from the people there? Where's the land operations? Wheres the reports and intel from land?

The OW is an empty space used to fill the gaps. If you played Total War you'd know that the OW we have now is a sham.

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36 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Where's the people on these island? Where's the economy being produced from the people there? Where's the land operations? Wheres the reports and intel from land?

The OW is an empty space used to fill the gaps. If you played Total War you'd know that the OW we have now is a sham.

Well, I am less far away from your point than you think. I had mentioned more content for the ports.

I don't think the game much improves when you notice donkey carts rolling over the beaches and a few indios hunting.

--

Total War comparison:

I am sure Total War series has more than two people programming and a huge budget. Also it is a land based game, so you can expect to see a landscape packed with eye candy. When they introduced naval battle (Empire Total War) for the first time, the ocean was even more void than here at NA. And ships were too cheap to build. Not much to criticize though. I liked it altogether.

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48 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Well, I am less far away from your point than you think. I had mentioned more content for the ports.

I don't think the game much improves when you notice donkey carts rolling over the beaches and a few indios hunting.

--

Total War comparison:

I am sure Total War series has more than two people programming and a huge budget. Also it is a land based game, so you can expect to see a landscape packed with eye candy. When they introduced naval battle (Empire Total War) for the first time, the ocean was even more void than here at NA. And ships were too cheap to build. Not much to criticize though. I liked it altogether.

It's not just the looks, it's the functionality. Population, food production, trade income, taxes, corruption, squalor and happiness all go into the towns on total war's map. The things that where simulated in the town affected things outside it. Towns would trade with each other and generally do what you'd expect from a real town to maintain and grow.

Compare that to NA where there is no simulated population, it's just night and day. I really could go into why Total War's map works and why NA's OW doesn't but it's very self evident. Click on a town on Rome:Total War, observe all the info, all the calculations being made and things being simulated to a real world affect. Nevermind I did it.

wOfbcFc.jpg

Population, income, growth, trade routes that can be blocked, valuable materials market in large, ports interacting with each other through trade and immigration. Tons of info, ton's of things going on. Lots of functionality and full of life.

Now look at NA...

ncExHeh.jpg

Sure looks good, but those roads don't actually have caravans traveling on them, AI traders don't affect the income or growth of a port, ports near each other don't interact in any way. Very little going on and it's the reason why OW is such a void, which is the #1 biggest problem with NA imo.

If this is an 18th century age of sail simulator everything should be simulated, the OW should be a vessel in itself, not a buffer between battles.

Edited by Slim McSauce

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34 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

It's not just the looks, it's the functionality. Population, food production, trade income, taxes, corruption, squalor and happiness all go into the towns on total war's map. The things that where simulated in the town affected things outside it. Towns would trade with each other and generally do what you'd expect from a real town to maintain and grow.

Compare that to NA where there is no simulated population, it's just night and day. I really could go into why Total War's map works and why NA's OW doesn't but it's very self evident. Click on a town on Rome:Total War, observe all the info, all the calculations being made and things being simulated to a real world affect. Nevermind I did it.

wOfbcFc.jpg

Population, income, growth, trade routes that can be blocked, valuable materials market in large, ports interacting with each other through trade and immigration. Tons of info, ton's of things going on. Lots of functionality and full of life.

Now look at NA...

ncExHeh.jpg

Sure looks good, but those roads don't actually have caravans traveling on them, AI traders don't affect the income or growth of a port, ports near each other don't interact in any way. Very little going on and it's the reason why OW is such a void, which is the #1 biggest problem with NA imo.

If this is an 18th century age of sail simulator everything should be simulated, the OW should be a vessel in itself, not a buffer between battles.

difference between the games is the money and ppl invested and also that total war (rome 1 which had more depth in my oppinion) 

I still very optimistic that new stuff will be developed after the core is done and in my oppinion it is nearly done so who says that roads wont play a part of a NA mechanic in the future?

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