mod J & P Rebalance Mod by JonnyH13 and Pandakraut 05/06/2023 1.28.4

[killjoy1941]

On 8/26/2018 at 8:39 AM, pandakraut said:

How much of an army do you feel you need to make it through Shiloh with? For myself if I get past Shiloh with even 5k remaining the rewards of that battle are more than enough to rebuild and beat the rest of the campaign. On legendary I took 50% losses and had about 7k men remaining and had no issues afterwords. Since I don't build big units, Shiloh is the last time I see giant AI brigades and the rest of the campaign is relatively easy. This in itself is a campaign progression issue since the difficulty peaks so early, but that's a larger issue to address.

I'd be okay with 50%. Once it exceeds 60-70% it becomes excessive. I'm simply saying you might want to make it easier for testing purposes since Shiloh seems to be the big hang-up and there really aren't that many people providing feedback for you guys. I'd actually be fine with a very high hurdle at Shiloh in a finished or near-finished product.

[BCH]

10 hours ago, pandakraut said:

Some of your earlier screenshots showed the AI with over 70k troops. That's more like what I normally see on legendary. Are your kill ratios around the same as me and @lightningg? Or are you just getting incredibly unlucky with the variance stuff?

I will check my saves tonight after work and let you know.

[BCH]

5 hours ago, killjoy1941 said:

I'd be okay with 50%. Once it exceeds 60-70% it becomes excessive. I'm simply saying you might want to make it easier for testing purposes since Shiloh seems to be the big hang-up and there really aren't that many people providing feedback for you guys. I'd actually be fine with a very high hurdle at Shiloh in a finished or near-finished product.

Don't make easier on my account at this point; there may well be a problem with the strategy I am using.

[pandakraut]

11 minutes ago, BCH said:

Don't make easier on my account at this point; there may well be a problem with the strategy I am using.

It's more about bringing it back in line with the campaign in general. Brandy Station, Supply Raid, Union Salem Church all just don't play well with the mod changes. Some of them you can cheese some of them you can't, but they all need to be adjusted eventually. 

Video added to previous post.

[lightningg]

6 hours ago, BCH said:

I will check my saves tonight after work and let you know.

I just re-fought Shiloh MG with my same forces as yesterday but having a couple of units swapped between divisions

Yesterday CSA had 56719 Infantry, which was won on the last day.  Today's battle was won on the first day and CSA had roughly the same number of cavalry (yesterday 2663 today 2252) and artillery (yesterday 175 guns today 173 guns ) (tiny difference) but  they had 67534 infantry  This is 19% more infantry against my same force.  Whether me switching units made any difference I don't know  but it does show how lucky/unlucky you can be.  I forgot to take a screenshot of the victory in my haste to note the numbers down so the one below is when a rogue rebel unit just appeared next to my general high up where Gibbon's brigade is up on the right.  It did not get through my line as my 3 units that gave chase were there originally, so CSA doing some smoke and mirrors with the battle.

 

67534

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by lightningg

[pandakraut]

3 minutes ago, lightningg said:

Yesterday CSA had 56719 Infantry, which was won on the last day.  Today's battle was won on the first day and CSA had roughly the same number of cavalry (yesterday 2663 today 2252) and artillery (yesterday 175 guns today 173 guns ) (tiny difference) but  they had 67534 infantry  This is 19% more infantry against my same force.  Whether me switching units made any difference I don't know  but it does show how lucky/unlucky you can be.  I forgot to take a screenshot of the victory in my haste to note the numbers down so the one below is when a rogue rebel unit just appeared next to my general high up where Gibbon's brigade is up on the right.  It did not get through my line, so CSA doing some smoke and mirrors with the battle.

That's quite an increase, but mechanically possible with how the variance and splitting works. I'll have to try and get one of those increases on Legendary so Jonny can have a challenge for a change

[BCH]

7 minutes ago, lightningg said:

so CSA doing some smoke and mirrors with the battle.

Sort of like a brigade showing up in the open within firing range of my cavalry..

 

[killjoy1941]

9 hours ago, BCH said:

Don't make easier on my account at this point; there may well be a problem with the strategy I am using.

It has nothing to do with you.

There are what? Around three to five people who've played through to later battles and given feedback? If we had even two or three more people doing that, it would be a huge improvement. Variance in particular has the potential to upend what are otherwise easy Union wins like Malvern Hill, 2nd Manassas, Gettysburg, and Chickamauga, not to mention allowing much more extensive testing of perks and weapons.

If it's one thing I've learned about mods over the years, players tend to temporarily abandon them when they hit major roadblocks and wait for patches and features. It's far easier to just roll back your game, play with what you enjoy, and wait for others to fix things for you.

[BCH]

10 hours ago, BCH said:

I will check my saves tonight after work and let you know.

I regularly see 60,000 plus CSA infantry

some examples:

Union Inf. vs CSA Inf.

19,651 vs. 60,565
23,607 vs. 60,714
22,807 vs. 60,286

What is not happening in the above battles is Buell's last reinforcements.  Never quite able to hold the VP long enough for them to come in.

CSA losses are usually 2 to 3 times greater than Union losses

I do note that in your video of Shiloh, you have manged to acquire three 2*, and four 1* rifle brigades; the best that I have been able to get ready for Shiloh is two 3*, and three 1* brigades. Obviously, I am missing something in barracks development.

[pandakraut]

18 minutes ago, BCH said:

I regularly see 60,000 plus CSA infantry

What is your intel report army size value?

20 minutes ago, BCH said:

I do note that in your video of Shiloh, you have manged to acquire three 2*, and four 1* rifle brigades; the best that I have been able to get ready for Shiloh is two 3*, and three 1* brigades. Obviously, I am missing something in barracks development.

I do a lot of switching around of my officers to maximize the number of fresh units I can get a star on. My three 2* brigades were not going to rank up at Crossroads and already had high ranking colonels so they stayed in camp. If I had brought my best 2 star unit to crossroads I probably could have gotten it to 3 stars. Debatable if that or getting more xp on my less experienced units was the better choice.

So post crossroads I had four 2* and eleven 1* units. I then bought up all of the lt colonels and above to create temporary units. Then I created 2nd corps and 3 additional divisions using the extra generated officers. All division commanders were swapped out with the worst lt colonels. I then go through and assign any colonels that can't get rookies to one star to more experienced units and assign the experienced officers to new units. While I try to minimize it, efficiency losses are acceptable here as long as I don't lose a perk. In reviewing I should have swapped Gibbon out as well as it would have gotten me one more rank up. This process resulted in 5 new one star units assuming I had switched out Gibbon.

I chose to emphasize ranking up artillery and a sniper unit over additional infantry brigades, but could probably go either way. My best general went on the 24pdrs to hopefully get a MG post Shiloh(worked out this time). All 3 colonels available for rep points prior to Shiloh were bought. I skip the 3in ordanance buy but otherwise all rep weapons are bought prior to Shiloh as well.

The exact results will vary based on what you end up with in the barracks, if any officers died or were wounded, and how xp gets distributed across your forces. If you could get all your officers wounded at distress call you'd be in a great spot assuming you can still pull off bull run with the handicap.

[BCH]

On 8/27/2018 at 4:56 PM, BCH said:

Interesting.. might need to see how large I can get them to scale.

largest so far = 3,450  3,695 a 2 * Inf. brigade

Additionally two sets of split brigades 2,940 x 2 for 5,880 total and 3,010 x2 for 6,020 total

Edited August 31, 2018 by BCH
updated info

[BCH]

14 hours ago, pandakraut said:

What is your intel report army size value?

I do not usually pay much attention to that; I will make a note as I keep trying Shiloh.

This last play through, I brought in 22,000+ infantry vs 51,000+ CSA Inf. (first time in a long while it was below 60,000)

Intel report showed 41-45k

Edited August 29, 2018 by BCH
revised text

[pandakraut]

1 hour ago, BCH said:

This last play through, I brought in 22,000+ infantry vs 51,000+ CSA Inf. (first time in a long while it was below 60,000)

Intel report showed 41-45k

Ok, you're basically at the minimum AI Size then. Assuming those 22k infantry are accompanied by sufficient artillery that setup should be winnable.

[BCH]

On 8/29/2018 at 12:33 PM, pandakraut said:

Ok, you're basically at the minimum AI Size then. Assuming those 22k infantry are accompanied by sufficient artillery that setup should be winnable.

It should have been, but I did not optimize my divisions before starting; doubt that I get that low number when I do optimize the divisions in regard to order of battle.

And it would be rare that I do not bring enough artillery.. "A battery of field artillery is worth a thousand muskets" William Tecumseh Sherman

Ultima ratio regum

Edited August 30, 2018 by BCH

[madmatg]

Just now hitting Shiloh and I concur, it is very difficult! d:

[lightningg]

BCH - Do you make a save during the battle if things are going well?  

Looking at the video pandakraut posted there were some good examples of battle management but it only takes 30 secs for things to go wrong at Shiloh.  If I'm faced by something extreme like 6 CSA brigades totalling +10k infantry appearing together as a group on one flank and charging 3 brigades at a time with a 400+ unit of cavalry thrown in as the icing on the cake (as happened last time), or if i'm taking too many casualties without returning fire I pause the battle and make a quick decision on tactics

It always seems to me that AI is very good at hiding especially the artillery but can see all of my units as well as I can, so consider my tactical pause as only fair

I know the AI may have a better spotting figure than my troops but we are talking extreme ranges at times or I am on higher ground and they are just below me and can fire up at me but I cant see them, just the shells hitting my units and me following the trail back to the hidden (in open) guns.  I don't think that the game is as sophisticated that AI can claim the sun was in my eyes.  Taking out their generals doesn't change much

Anyhow I am trying a different career path general and have got the Philippi Bug for the first time  Currently sitting on 70 napoleon cannons ,28 in Wood's brigade and a split unit with 21 guns in each brigade.  Not sure at the moment how many of the spit unit cannon would be 'recovered' by me at battle end if I don't loose any in the battle itself

Any ideas anybody?

[pandakraut]

2 hours ago, lightningg said:

I know the AI may have a better spotting figure than my troops but we are talking extreme ranges at times or I am on higher ground and they are just below me and can fire up at me but I cant see them, just the shells hitting my units and me following the trail back to the hidden (in open) guns.  I don't think that the game is as sophisticated that AI can claim the sun was in my eyes.  Taking out their generals doesn't change much

The spotting values certainly seem to be different. The CSA right flank at Fredericksburg is especially noticeable. You can't see anything much beyond the woods and the AI will spot you at least twice as far out.

If you want a split units weapons just get them killed like any other. If you have a unit that split which goes to camp there is another bug for me to fix.

[lightningg]

I was afraid if they got killed by CSA that even though I won the battle then AI would get a bigger chunk of the cannons than I would with their super duper career skills lol

neither of them went to camp I just ended up with 12 recovered/rescued cannon.  I tried routing one myself and routing both myself but still ended with 12 guns

[madmatg]

One thing that drives me crazy is the lack of a topo map as it's difficult to actually figure out high and low places, any chance that could be modded onto the map?

[pandakraut]

3 minutes ago, madmatg said:

One thing that drives me crazy is the lack of a topo map as it's difficult to actually figure out high and low places, any chance that could be modded onto the map?

No, the topo lines were hand drawn onto the UGG maps. Even if someone can figure out how to replace the maps it would be an incredible amount of work to update all the maps.

[BCH]

6 hours ago, lightningg said:

BCH - Do you make a save during the battle if things are going well?  

Looking at the video pandakraut posted there were some good examples of battle management but it only takes 30 secs for things to go wrong at Shiloh.  If I'm faced by something extreme like 6 CSA brigades totalling +10k infantry appearing together as a group on one flank and charging 3 brigades at a time with a 400+ unit of cavalry thrown in as the icing on the cake (as happened last time), or if i'm taking too many casualties without returning fire I pause the battle and make a quick decision on tactics

It always seems to me that AI is very good at hiding especially the artillery but can see all of my units as well as I can, so consider my tactical pause as only fair

I know the AI may have a better spotting figure than my troops but we are talking extreme ranges at times or I am on higher ground and they are just below me and can fire up at me but I cant see them, just the shells hitting my units and me following the trail back to the hidden (in open) guns.  I don't think that the game is as sophisticated that AI can claim the sun was in my eyes.  Taking out their generals doesn't change much

Anyhow I am trying a different career path general and have got the Philippi Bug for the first time  Currently sitting on 70 napoleon cannons ,28 in Wood's brigade and a split unit with 21 guns in each brigade.  Not sure at the moment how many of the spit unit cannon would be 'recovered' by me at battle end if I don't loose any in the battle itself

Any ideas anybody?

I regularly save as I go in battles; if for no other reason than to go back and experiment with a change in tactics even if I am winning.

I utilize pause a lot on the major battles; the units that are 'in your control' sometimes make poor decisions (some additional adjectives can be put before poor). The AI spotting is annoying, but I noted in my last play of Logan's Crossing, my artillery batteries were engaging hidden CSA units and causing casualties. It may simply be a rendering issue and nothing to do with the actual spotting mechanics.

 

[BCH]

1 hour ago, pandakraut said:

No, the topo lines were hand drawn onto the UGG maps. Even if someone can figure out how to replace the maps it would be an incredible amount of work to update all the maps.

What file type are the maps and where are they located?

 

 

[pandakraut]

Just now, BCH said:

I regularly save as I go in battles; if for no other reason than to go back and experiment with a change in tactics even if I am winning.

FYI, when you reload you cause a bunch of AI routines to reset. They can go from very predictable to very aggressive so be careful.

[BCH]

1 minute ago, pandakraut said:

They can go from very predictable to very aggressive so be careful.

Roger on the 'very aggressive'...

[pandakraut]

Just now, BCH said:

What file type are the maps and where are they located?

I don't know, but there is no directory of graphics files that I have seen so it's probably wrapped in however unity stores that kind of object.