A suggestion that suggestions should have feedback

[z4ys]

8 minutes ago, Liq said:

Not all but if its obvious that something is broken (93% of 72 players voted for a change), id say yes.

maybe its obvious so it doesnt need a response?

At least they seem to work on it

Edited May 3, 2018 by z4ys

[Capt Jubal Early]

Yeah I agree with you on the subject matter of that thread.

But like z4ys said if its so obvious maybe it doesn't require a answer? and equally why bother answering?

Some of y'all can get to needy with the admin responses.
There's only 2 programmers let em get on.

[victor]

Just now, Capt Jubal Early said:

Do all threads require a admin answer?

No, but look at this thread.

In another thread the admin asked for cooperation of the community with the thing of the representative and so on.

Redii - which is a very active poster - opened a thread to gather suggestions ... some people put their idea in that thread.

In this thread Gregory raised the problem of feedback.

The Admin could have told something like "some of the ideas of the community are good ... in example [choose the ones you prefer in the other thread] but we would like also some more details on the possible implementation, can you add some more detail about how you would implement the solution"

And now - please - read the post of the Admin, fcusing on the tone and the words used.

I have learned a long ago that the way you say something is very important to understand what you are saying. And for me the post of the admins just confirms that the attitude of the writer could be summarized in the sentence "no matter what, you are wrong we are right". That's why I wrote it.

 

 

[victor]

Just now, Capt Jubal Early said:

There's only 2 programmers let em get on.

And that's part of the problem: to develop a game that sold 130.000 copies you NEED a game designer.

Edited May 3, 2018 by victor

[Liq]

10 minutes ago, z4ys said:

maybe its obvious so it doesnt need a response?

Thats not how it works

In switzerland even for the natioal vote about the new financial regulation where 84+% voted yes, the government recommended to vote yes - feedback is important, even if it is "too" obvious

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Liq

[The Marinadtor]

Every minute the development team reads and answer threads on the forum costs the company money as simple as that. Do you want your money going to them sitting and answering every thread on this forum or making the game? This is exactly why it is a good idea that they get the volunteer community representatives so that they can read the forum and compile and relay the feedback of the community to the development team for free.

I don't mean that there isn't valuable feedback that might save or make them money here on the forums but in reality the feedback that they can or want to take action on is far between.

[victor]

Just now, Liq said:

Thats not how it works

In switzerland even for the natioal vote about the new financial plan where 84+% voted yes, the government recommended to vote yes - feedback is important, even if it is "too" obvious

 

Switzerland does not count, it's a (good) world apart 😁

(BTW I'm also swiss citizen and I vote in the referendum from abroad)

[Capt Jubal Early]

Yeah but dudes come on how often do you think these guys are reading our suggestions?

They probably sit down and go through the suggestions thread by Hits and popularity bi-weekly.
Note down the good shit and reply if they have the time.

In my day to day life I work in a small team looking after IT shit (cant go into details) and things take time. Feedback comes in and we respond once we have a answer. It can take months to develop things for the platform and our customers don't require we hand hold them all the way along. So just saying I feel there pain and y'all a bunch of needy buggers some time.

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Capt Jubal Early

[Hethwill]

6 minutes ago, victor said:

tone and the words used

That you hear in your head, with your own voice, in your own tone, in the state of mind you are in that moment.

Common mistake. I do it often, to my own prejudice.

Read, unbiased, what is written - words in a screen, with no sound.

We may not agree with the presented reasoning and complex way of presenting the suggestions but we must accept that the answer is complete and thought through.

 

 

[victor]

Just now, The Marinadtor said:

Every minute the development team reads and answer threads on the forum costs the company money as simple as that. Do you want your money going to them sitting and answering every thread on this forum or making the game? This is exactly why it is a good idea that they get the volunteer community representatives so that they can read the forum and compile and relay the feedback of the community to the development team for free.

I don't mean that there isn't valuable feedback that might save or make them money here on the forums but in reality the feedback that they can or want to take action on is far between.

Before raising any "money" argument, I would make some math on the numbers of copies sold (130.000) and the price of the game (40 USD) - plus the 20 USD forged papers eventually sold lately - to have a rough idea of the total income of the project in these two years and half, then you could have a rough idea of how many resources (detracted a fair margin for the developers and the so called "fix" expenses) could be - or have been - invested in the development of the project.

Edited May 3, 2018 by victor

[Capt Jubal Early]

£390000 is not a lot of money. No wonder they only have 2 Programmers on the project.

[victor]

 

Just now, Capt Jubal Early said:

£390000 is not a lot of money. No wonder they only have 2 Programmers on the project.

390000? you can make it better

130.000 x 40 is .... 5.200.000 USD

Edited May 3, 2018 by victor

[Capt Jubal Early]

1 minute ago, victor said:

 

390000? you can make it better

130.000 x 40 is ....

I worked it out in my native currency. £390000        130000 x £30 = £390000

[victor]

Just now, Capt Jubal Early said:

I worked it out in my native currency. £390000        130000 x £30 = £390000

still lacks a zero mate .. it's 3.900.000 Pounds

Edited May 3, 2018 by victor

[Hethwill]

 I Suggest to see the Financial Assesment 2016/2017 papers !!!! ( that's how i read it, in my tone, in my head, in my mind...)

Are we customers or investors/bankers ? Have some sense...

*chuckles* ... coffee spilt... -.- 

Get on track.

[z4ys]

2 minutes ago, victor said:

 

390000? yuu can make it better

130.000 x 40 is

German number 130.000

english number 130,000

both mean the same

[victor]

Just now, Hethwill said:

 I Suggest to see the Financial Assesment 2016/2017 papers !!!! ( that's how i read it, in my tone, in my head, in my mind...)

Are we customers or investors/bankers ? Have some sense...

*chuckles* ... coffee spilt... -.- 

Get on track.

Sincerely it has big time .... since I can judge an EARLY ACCES DEVELOPING game I bought also on the basis of how the funding has been used by the developer (comparing the income and the result in terms of game contents).

Edited May 3, 2018 by victor

[victor]

Just now, z4ys said:

German number 130.000

english number 130,000

both mean the same

It's the result that was wrong (lacking a zero)! Not the factors of the multiplication.

[Hethwill]

Just now, victor said:

Sincerely it has big time .... since I can judge an EARLY ACCES DEVELOPING game I bought also on the basis of how the funding has been used by the developer.

Thanks for sharing.

Back on topic.

Having a structure when suggesting something IS GOOD.

 

[Capt Jubal Early]

2 minutes ago, victor said:

It's the result that was wrong (lacking a zero)! Not the factors of the multiplication.

My maths was right my typing was not I apologise
 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Capt Jubal Early

[victor]

1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

Thanks for sharing.

Back on topic.

Having a structure when suggesting something IS GOOD.

 

I agree, but these structures work better if they can refer to a game designer (or call it even "product manager"), which has the task to check if the suggestions can fit into the overall structure and "view" of the game and can also elaborate them into more detailed possible implementations.

Edited May 3, 2018 by victor

[Hethwill]

Exactly !

Hence why a simple 3 step is great for initial assessment, by community via discussion of the idea, and by devs.

- suggestion synopse

- pros

- cons

Can't get more simple than that.

Obviously a mind more keen on details can do what many do, illustrate with screens, videos, and even the sources they used as inspiration, history books, other games, etc.

 

[Capt Jubal Early]

Regardless the numbers are not high. Theres so many factors to developing a game people don't even think about.

Licensing costs for software (ESXI, Windows 2012r2, outlook, office etc.)
Licensing costs for hardware (Dell EMC, HP Proliants etc)
Networking costs (ISP's, Server hosting if not internal, routers, switches and support)
Staffing Costs for non game design (cleaners, network engineers, IT support)
Hardware ( the machines in the office, the printer, the coffee machine)

Then we get to the game:
Programmers
Designers
Artists
Managers/producers
Community Reps

Don't forget this isn't there only project. The revenue will be used to keep the business running as is standard practice and not everything is going to end up in the game.

Oh and don't forget steams massive cut from the number.


 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Capt Jubal Early

[The Marinadtor]

3 minutes ago, victor said:

Before raising any "money" argument, I would make some math on the numbers of copies sold (130.000) and the price of the game (40 USD) - plus the 20 USD forged papers eventually sold lately - to have a rough idea of the total income of the project in these two years and half, then you could have a rough idea of how much resources (detracted a fair margin for the developers) could be - or have been - invested in the project.

40 USD per game*130k = 5 200 000 USD, now detract VAT, Steam fees, and taxes in their country and you certainly don't end up with even half of that, so the money they have had coming in to be very generous might be half, so 2 600 000 USD. This is peanuts for 4 years of development(not 2 1/2 as you think), thats 650k USD per year with every employee costing you between 60k-100k USD per year with taxes and insurance, office rental cost, license costs etc. Currently the team only consist of 2 programmers, but there are others working there as well and I know there have been more programmers at points. The reality of the situation is that they are very probably running out of money sooner rather than later. Just accept the fact that they can't do everything, but don't let that stop you from trying to give good feedback, just keep your expectations managed.

[victor]

Just now, The Marinadtor said:

40 USD per game*130k = 5 200 000 USD, now detract VAT, Steam fees, and taxes in their country and you certainly don't end up with even half of that, so the money they have had coming in to be very generous might be half, so 2 600 000 USD. This is peanuts for 4 years of development(not 2 1/2 as you think), thats 650k USD per year with every employee costing you between 60k-100k USD per year with taxes and insurance, office rental cost, license costs etc. Currently the team only consist of 2 programmers, but there are others working there as well and I know there have been more programmers at points. The reality of the situation is that they are very probably running out of money sooner rather than later. Just accept the fact that they can't do everything, but don't let that stop you from trying to give good feedback, just keep your expectations managed.

If this is actually the scenario, then I would suggest then to launch some paid DLCs. I would fund them gladly to see this product further developed.

Edited May 3, 2018 by victor