Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
HachiRoku

Looking for PVP in my trinco

Recommended Posts

Just now, HachiRoku said:

Where do I mention I want 1v1s? I want competitive pvp be that 1v1s 4v4s or 10v10s. Patrol zones have no tactics involved because your constantly been pressured to brawl. Where is there fun in brawls. 

Ok, my bad. 1v1 BR then, that's what I mean.

What is your suggestion exactly ? How to make changes to mechanics to accommodate to that ?

A simple, direct and honest line should suffice I guess.

Lemme try - "I suggest OW RoE to be always 1:1 BR quota. Once achieved, battle is closed."

Your turn...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

Ok, my bad. 1v1 BR then, that's what I mean.

What is your suggestion exactly ? How to make changes to mechanics to accommodate to that ?

A simple, direct and honest line should suffice I guess.

Lemme try - "I suggest OW RoE to be always 1:1 BR quota. Once achieved, battle is closed."

Your turn...

Nah, same ROE as there always has been in open sea. 3 min join timer. I don't like systems that take advantage of time compression. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, HachiRoku said:

Nah, same ROE as there always has been in open sea. 3 min join timer. I don't like systems that take advantage of time compression. 

Sure :) was just an example, not a real suggestion.

What is your suggestion exactly ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hethwill said:

Sure :) was just an example, not a real suggestion.

What is your suggestion exactly ?

I don't have one man. The old la navass pvp events worked fine and we tested them in practice. Why suggest something new when we know what works? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There we go, that's perfect.

3 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

The old la navass pvp events worked fine and we tested them in practice.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hethwill said:

There we go, that's perfect.

 

Are you trolling me man? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No. Was helping out by focusing the thoughts into one single point.

I mean, we can go through the whole thing of  - ganks and forts and zones and everyone and their mother enters my battle the whole day, but without a pivotal point where to concentrate the entire debacle is moot.

The specific Zone mechanics you mention, old La Navasse events, seem to achieve that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

What is your suggestion exactly ?

Some time ago @Liq suggested the following for patrol zones:

"Best solution IMHO:

  • When a battle instance gets created in the PvP zone, it's open regularly for the first 3 minutes, as any other battle is. No BR restrictions (That way you can't get "locked" out when you're not inside the tagging circle)
  • After those 3 minutes, players can join sides until it has reached 1.5 times the BR of the other side."
I'd also suggest to remove that silly circle of death!
 
It's far from being realistic, tactically challenging or even funny imo:
Even in shooting range captains should have the chance to do other things than brawling - e.g. stay upwind, shoot sails / masts and maybe run from superior forces or just keep distance between them and the enemys!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about get a team together, go to one of the other clans complaining about lack of PvP/RvR and put a little agro on there port and see how fast they come out and defend it.  It seems to be how we get it cause we can't get the ports flipped when we get jumped by 10 players (agro is way broken with AI kills vs player. Went from 90.6 points to 29 with one fight).  Really why is there so many folks complaining about lack of PvP but we never see them get together and fight each other?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

 

I'd also suggest to remove that silly circle of death!
 
 

The issue is, as currently seen in another thread just today, where people complain about ship speed/speed mods/people running away. The circle is the only way to stop that. It has its downsides but it gives something a bit different while addressing some of the problems.
In turn removing it because you cannot run is just going in circles.

I feel imposing a BR limit of 1.5x/2x is the better solution. Then people have less reason to run as they cannot be completely Zerged. At that point the circle becomes irrelevant as it is big enough to manoeuvre inside of.

Edited by Liam790

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thing with circle is...

... what would make it different from a normal OW engagement then ?!...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Liam790 said:

The issue is, as currently seen in another thread just today, where people complain about ship speed/speed mods/people running away. The circle is the only way to stop that. It has its downsides but it gives something a bit different while addressing some of the problems.
In turn removing it because you cannot run is just going in circles.

I don't think so!

If you're sailing into a PvP zone you look for what? ... Yes, i'd guess PvP!

That means: You're prepared to fight anyways!

But limiting tactical options (e.g. going for speed, fighting from a certain distance keeping the weather gauge, ... ) with that damn circle is nonsens to me!

The circle means not only death to at least one ship but death to tactical gameplay, because the only things that matter in such a circle are numbers, HP, firepower and thickness - boring and unrealistic imo!

Fast ships should have the chance to evade superior fleets - that's impossible if battles stay open for an eternity without BR limits and if this shrinking artifical "you're not allowed to sail any further- bullshit-circle"!

 

Edited by Navalus Magnus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

I don't think so!

If you're sailing into a PvP zone you look for what? ... Yes, i'd guess PvP!

That means: You're prepared to fight anyways!

But limiting tactical options (e.g. going for speed, fighting from a certain distance keeping the weather gauge, ... ) with that damn circle is nonsens to me!

The circle means not only death to at least one ship but death to tactical gameplay, because the only things that matter in such a circle are numbers, HP, firepower and thickness - boring and unrealistic imo!

 

I disagree. The point at which the circle is so small you have to facehug broadsides is only in the last 10 minutes or so. Lets not pretend the circles isn't big enough for 90% of the battle. It is big enough to disengage, but it just stop you running away in fir fir ships.

A tactical game does not need miles and miles of open sea to flee into. In fact I would argue the smaller it gets, the more tactical it gets.

EDIT: Dirty fast ships have already had a buff now that chain is limited. Allowing yet another scenario for them to run is just pointless. 

Edited by Liam790

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Liam790 said:

I disagree. The point at which the circle is so small you have to facehug broadsides is only in the last 10 minutes or so. Lets not pretend the circles isn't big enough for 90% of the battle. It is big enough to disengage, but it just stop you running away in fir fir ships.

A tactical games does not need miles and miles of open sea to flee into. In fact I would argue the smaller it gets, the more tactical it gets.

Room to sail and manoever was crucial in the age of sail!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jubsies opinions on Patrol zones are as such.

They suck.

Suggestion:
Same ROE as OW fights. Same close timer as OW fights. No circle. Basically exactly the same thing as a OW fight which you can escape.

The only difference being that damage done in the fights within the zone accumulate towards mission reward. Hell why isn't there more PVP missions that are global without zones?
The incentive to fight should be the reward and the reward alone.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

Room to sail and manoever was crucial in the age of sail!

Let's take a quintessential example then, to add consistency to the claims.

Shannon versus Cheasapeake - How much sea area was used from first shot to last shot ?

Can even look to the Glorious 1st of June. How much sea area was used, from first to last shot fired ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hethwill said:

Let's take a quintessential example then, to add consistency to the claims.

Shannon versus Cheasapeake - How much sea area was used ?

Can even look to the Glorious 1st of June. How much sea area was used ?

It doesn't matter how much area was used in single fights - the claim that room to manoever was crucial wouldn't be falsyfied by fights on close and limited quarters imo.

The more space the more possibilities!

 

Circle of death = only possibility: Brawl for your life (at least for the last 15 minutes).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

Room to sail and manoever was crucial in the age of sail!

And yet there is room to sail here. Im not sure what you are sailing but I cant say I have ever had any real issues with the circle. All it does is contain the battle. If you drift out, 5 minutes is hardly a short time to turn around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Navalus Magnus said:

Circle of death = only possibility: Brawl for your life (at least for the last 15 minutes).

I think that is the purpose of the zones. Deliver as much damage as I can before I either go down or emerge victorious 😮

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

I think that is the purpose of the zones. Deliver as much damage as I can before I either go down or emerge victorious 😮

 

Sigh ... i'd say yes and no at the same time!

The primary purpose is to get some PvP going imo! The rewards are secondary to me - although i like them!

--> Atm i don't think these zones do a lot to get PvP going. They limit PvP tactically! ...  and as far as i know they don't even lead to a significant increase of PvP - do you have numbers?

 

But what the zones in thier current form do imo is:

a) Creating an artificial feeling (why the heck do i have a shrinking circle - did they have it too back in the days ... when they were drunk?).

b) Reward gankers to no ends - if they still find some prey that is.

Edited by Navalus Magnus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

id they have it too back in the days ... when they were drunk?

No. They just had a role to perform. To engage the enemy wherever it could be found and bring it into submission, by sinking or capturing the vessel or ship.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a patrol zone fight today (Antilles) where I joined a frigate against an indy. A bit later an endy joined the indy. That happened just because us two late joiners decided to help the low BR side instead of piling on the winning side. This is rather exceptional as the gankbox coerces most people to seek safety in numbers at the complete disregard of fun, anyone's fun, really. It was a fairly fun fight. If BR limits somehow forced that almost every patrol mission fight would be fairly fun instead of the insano lineship gank groups stomping the patrols.

Now, I don't think this would suit Hachi (?) But it could be good for most of us. The gank groups have the entire caribbean to stomp, why not enable fair'ish fights in the patrol zones?

As far as fun fights is concerned; Having sailed this shameless gankbox since it opened, my expectations for fun (=equal sides) is set rather low. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Navalus Magnus said:

Will you be there again today?

I hope I can stop by tonight to get some training again - need to practice as you might have noticed! 😀

we'll see, hard to tell :) If you want, we could have a 1 vs 1 fight without sinking, where I could tell you what you could improve. I don't need PvP marks, just a fight :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

How about get a team together, go to one of the other clans complaining about lack of PvP/RvR and put a little agro on there port and see how fast they come out and defend it.  It seems to be how we get it cause we can't get the ports flipped when we get jumped by 10 players (agro is way broken with AI kills vs player. Went from 90.6 points to 29 with one fight).  Really why is there so many folks complaining about lack of PvP but we never see them get together and fight each other?

people don't do this because it's a boring work. You have to get at least 6 people, best 10 people together at the same time doing the same thing - it requires planning and work. Then you have to sail there and grind AI, which takes you approx. 2 hours till the first PvP - that is provided enemy shows up to fight. They can just ignore you, giving you a pleasureable 3-6 hours of AI grind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding patrol zones - only ganks are an issue - that is enemy joining during a battle with superior force, which turns a fight into a slaughter where you can't do anything to win or even inflict a reasonable damage.

We can fix this by limited BR, and then test other options - with circle, without, 3 minute timers, longer etc. Patrol zone is every day. There's no issue to set different ROE every day and see which rules are popular, and which are not.

Edited by vazco
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×