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No More Contracts!!!!!!! Make Trading Great Again!


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10 hours ago, Moria15 said:

Devs are obviously happy that the game is P2W and so I doubt anything will be done.

Don't be so obtuse. Steam rules block them from dealing with the alt issue. They would have if they could, it would make the game a lot easier to balance.

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Its about resource dropping.  Lets have more resources.  Who cares if we have a ton of money.  It gets spent on ships that we sail out and fight with.  More resources means more trade ships in OW.  Just get the majority of good stuff out of the green zone.

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2 hours ago, jodgi said:

Don't be so obtuse. Steam rules block them from dealing with the alt issue. They would have if they could, it would make the game a lot easier to balance.

obtuse huh..  no  it's nothing to do with Steam rules.  If the design of the game allows anything to be a bonus by having a second account, then it should be changed.

No-one (except fanataics that want to support the devs) would ever buy a second copy of the game if there was no benefit.. therefore the design means that by owning a second copy gives a benefit and has done since the game was launched. 

The game  should be such that artificial limitations which can be got round by paying cash and buying a second copy of the game, don't exist.  There are always other ways to balance things.

The "Steam allows it" is just a cop-out.  Alternatives to needing a second account and balancing this for one account have been posted on these forums regularly since 2015 and ignored.

I'm not actually saying theres anything wrong with it..  if that's what the devs want..  its their choice..  I just believe it should be made plain that there are benefits to having a second copy which are pretty huge and you shoulkd be prepoared for that when you buy the first copy.

 

Edited by Moria15
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38 minutes ago, Moria15 said:

If the design of the game allows anything to be a bonus by having a second account, then it should be changed.

I can agree that this is an ideal, but is it possible?

45 minutes ago, Moria15 said:

Alternatives to needing a second account and balancing this for one account have been posted on these forums regularly since 2015 and ignored.

Heh, I've seen those. I haven't seen one that would've worked, though.

Tell me, do you know of a sandbox game with production and eco where they have "dealt" with alts?

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9 minutes ago, jodgi said:

I can agree that this is an ideal, but is it possible?

Heh, I've seen those. I haven't seen one that would've worked, though.

Tell me, do you know of a sandbox game with production and eco where they have "dealt" with alts?

LOL  we could get into multiple essays here (and many have been written on the topic)....    let me just say the following..    Yes I have seen production sandboxes that have dealt with "alts"  or even rendered them unnecessary but the interesting thing is the term sandbox..  The term sandbox is a widely used term these-days but it's difficult to nail down as it is a term that crosses so many genres with disparate mechanics and settings..  but ultimately it comes down to trying to provide the player of the game with freedom.     Hence.. any restriction on freedom is counter to the aim of sandbox. 

I think one of the best statements about the whole of this relates to this freedom...  and the philosophy is that if the game is truly sandbox, then there are few (if any) limitations within the parameters that the game is about (ie  no steamships in NA is fine),  not just on what a character can do in game, but also what a player can do with their account.  

If a player is having enough FUN on their main account, then there is no need to have a second.   If a player can truly sandbox their main account, then there is no need to have another.

The second you introduce hard limits on an account (or number of accounts) then you introduce a subculture that allows the use of second, or alt accounts to flourish and provide a benefit.  I know you have alt's Jodgi..  why?   what benefit do you get from having that alt..  theres a good place to start looking at the design parameters for removing them.

 

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I have 5 accounts, and with that suggestion I could have them spread on good ressource ports, tab between them to snipe all ressources cheap

The idea of contracts is not bad, it just doesnt work yet - with the low amount of players and existence of euro traders

Edited by Liq
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39 minutes ago, Moria15 said:

If a player is having enough FUN on their main account, then there is no need to have a second.   If a player can truly sandbox their main account, then there is no need to have another.

This is interesting, especially as it relates to me and my use of alts.

I wouldn't want to sandbox, I'm doing everything I can to avoid sandboxing. I just want to shoot at ships. Everyone is forced to deal with eco if you want to shoot at ships with competitive equipment. Alts provide a way to minimize eco activities, fast-track getting rare things and in general mitigate the eco fun-tax. I can't escape it altogether, but with alts the situation is quite bearable. It's bearable because NA fighting is truly fantastic. I'm a rabid fan which is weirdly contrasted with how pissy I get over eco stuff.

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8 minutes ago, jodgi said:

This is interesting, especially as it relates to me and my use of alts.

I wouldn't want to sandbox, I'm doing everything I can to avoid sandboxing. I just want to shoot at ships. Everyone is forced to deal with eco if you want to shoot at ships with competitive equipment. Alts provide a way to minimize eco activities, fast-track getting rare things and in general mitigate the eco fun-tax. I can't escape it altogether, but with alts the situation is quite bearable. It's bearable because NA fighting is truly fantastic. I'm a rabid fan which is weirdly contrasted with how pissy I get over eco stuff.

but that's awesome,   you know what you want, and you know what you like and by using alts you have found a way to enjoy the game the way you want to play it.   (That's sandboxing btw) and you should be able to do it.

But to do it, you had to BUY (for CASH)  alts.

Now..  in what way would it be different if you were allowed to have multiple captains on your primary account?    Would that be the same for you and your style of play and getting FUN from the game?

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1 hour ago, Capt Jubal Early said:

Embrace Alts like eve. As long as its not used for boosting who cares?

 

Those who favor fairplay care. A lot.

The fact that developers restricted the number of player alter egos to *one* per steam account signalizes already they favor equality, too. One customer - one character. Should be enforced for all. Even if it means a few less sold copies.

Edited by Cetric de Cornusiac
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2 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

WW II was not won by strategy, engagement, skills or tactics. WW II was won by economy.

Not quite. By economy providing their soldiers with enough weapons and the supply network to bring them to the front. The fighting however still has to be done by soldiers. And when morale does not work, you can give them all you want, they won't be victorious.

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17 minutes ago, Moria15 said:

Now..  in what way would it be different if you were allowed to have multiple captains on your primary account?

Almost as good. I would run into issues with moving things and money between captains in different nations. I've also done quite a bit of afk activities on alts while being hands-on with my main.

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I have only ever had 1 account, so I cannot accurately speak about how contracts are used with Alts. However, I can speak about their value to me and suggest some game ideas. I do not often have the real world time to travel to port after port seeking resources - but i might find the time if some of the following ideas were put in the game. As a clan member, this is usually offset by a group effort to collect and maintain materials. However, though I value clan play, I very much like to play solo (single man clan) from time to time. Doing this also gives me the freedom to fight along side several different clans. This being the case at the moment, contracts are the only way I can acquire certain items or resources. Yes, I agree that the economic system using contracts in the present form is flawed, however, its difficult to suggest a fix until after the Devs have introduced the new money system mentioned in an earlier post. So, that being the case, id like put forward an idea or two. 

I like the idea of all basic ship building resources and all woods being made available in or around every nations capitol / designated area. I understand the logic of - the easier it is to replace ships, the more fighting/pvp that takes place. However, something like this would need something like a crafting modification based on port visits to promote vast amounts of travel around the map. I suggest the following: Lets say you wanted to craft a Bovenwinds. There are none on the market. 

<example>

In order to craft one Bovenwinds, you will need: 

1. 50 Rigging parts

2. 20 canvas rolls

3. An inspection stamp from this freeport: <example> - La Mona (RNG)

(adding the requirement that the mats be brought to the freeport for inspection would add vast amounts of pvp as well)

4. Return to National port to craft. <example> A Pirate would return to a Pirate port to craft.

 

Imagine how much it would slow down the churning out of mods and super ships if a journey of inspection had to be made - even if all woods/resources were available in every area.. 

<example>

To craft a Copper plating you will need:

100 Copper Ingots

100 Iron Fittings

An Inspection stamp from these 3 free ports: Great corn - La Mona - Shroud cay

Return to national port to craft.

Now, imagine - basic upgrades and mods available on AI and Missions. All others require an Inspection stamp that cannot be traded.

Ok, one step further. You also choose a "Captains Adventure" port tour mission. Once chosen, you are given a list of 100 ports to visit and collect an Inspection stamp from. There are small tiered rewards for 10 ports visited, 25, 50, etc. Once all 100 Ports are visited - you receive a Santa Cecilia, 5 million gold, 2 rare upgrades. Can only be done once. This could also be made an element of a more rare book like the present "Art of ship handling"

 

Just something to think about. 

Edited by Guest
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43 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Those who favor fairplay care. A lot.

The fact that developers restricted the number of player alter egos to *one* per steam account signalizes already they favor equality, too. One customer - one character. Should be enforced for all. Even if it means a few less sold copies.

huh? that makes basically no sense. 

Regardless alts are here to stay theres no way they can go back on it without reimbursing a shit tone of money. Liq alone would be owed £150. 

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8 hours ago, Capt Jubal Early said:

Nah seems like a silly idea. No one wants to sit in port all day just to buy some logs. and like everyone said alts will become more powerful.

I like alts but don't give them more power please.

 Contracts are a silly idea, they let alts go idle in ports and they just need to pickup their contract and afk sail out...

If the drop rate is increased you wouldnt be sitting because you can't fill anymore traders and would need to leave under the protection of whatever fleet is waiting outside.

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2 hours ago, jodgi said:

Almost as good. I would run into issues with moving things and money between captains in different nations. I've also done quite a bit of afk activities on alts while being hands-on with my main.

LOL  okay so I am not picking on you or anything.. just trying to do some good design work here....  

This was suggested back in 2016...

"Multiple characters per acount should be allowed, and the ability to build a warehouse (yes at a cost) in a port that the "ACCOUNT" rather than the "CHARACTER" could use..   it would mean both characters having an outpost in the same port but would have to be in a nuetral (not a port that can be taken) thus encouraging trading in Open World.

That, I believe, would solve your issue and encourage a little more OW use?

as to your afk activities..  that can be done as well...  eve online allows activities (some) to happen on chars that are not logged in such as skill building and a few others. 

 

Edited by Moria15
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Using alts + contracts are less time consuming than just having alts. Totally support this, but the port owner should also be able to decide who can buy stuff in their ports. Better fix for alt monopolizing the buy markeds with constant updated contracts.

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8 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

Using alts + contracts are less time consuming than just having alts. Totally support this, but the port owner should also be able to decide who can buy stuff in their ports. Better fix for alt monopolizing the buy markeds with constant updated contracts.

Imagine that, as an affirmatively one-account-player I sail back and forth in person to one particular port to renew a contract. :)

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If all contracts are clan controlled (either to open a limitation to Friendly clan, or to the nation only), this could increase the RvR battles, but just for an handfull of ports. This will also make the strongest nation even more strong, which will distroy RvR, this "above all" nation being in fact invicible for smaller ones.

This would be totally in contradiction with the introduction of new nations (most of them dedicated to PvP), and this will be the death sentence for the smaller ones.

If contracts are open to friendly clans only, this will send independant players to a choice (go to a clan in spite of not really willing to, or play with another disadvantage, or play Something else when they will be bored of other options).

I opened another account than "Eleazar". This account is up to now very fun. At @admin, please don't kill this fun! :) :)

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