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Patch 24: Properly depowering your staysails

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1 hour ago, jodgi said:

Except that happens when you penetrate and when you don't penetrate. We would settle for that kind of visual feedback.

50/50 chance is legitimate and realistic. You will be making these decisions and you will be responsible for the outcome. 50% chance for you and 50% chance for the enemy is fair. 

I personally know of software that does demast calculations in NA and is used by some players. You guys have it too easy. What admin is going to do with this patch is to clean up this mess. 

Forcing player to count and rely on luck is what we need here. 

Edited by Wind

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36 minutes ago, firebool said:

You know exactly the damage received but you do not know the damage you are doing, that would be fair, in addition to the real thing. You can see that the enemy is increasing or decreasing their shots or their speed but you do not know what hull or damage is left or how many crew survives after your broadsides, with which you really submit to decisions that nobody (NEITHER TODAY WITH SO MUCH TEGNOLOGY ) known.

Your font...it burns man it burrrnss aaaaaaa

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1 hour ago, Wind said:

50/50 chance is legitimate and realistic. You will be making these decisions and you will be responsible for the outcome. 50% chance for you and 50% chance for the enemy is fair. 

I personally know of software that does demast calculations in NA and is used by some players. You guys have it too easy. What admin is going to do with this patch is to clean up this mess. 

Forcing player to count and rely on luck is what we need here. 

You don't know what you're talking about.

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4 hours ago, EliteDelta said:

I think to make a change like that we’d need much more dynamic animations of ship damage. Large holes in a ships side, cannons overturned, ports beaten together into large gaps etc. Right now it would just be too uncertain. 

And this might need even better hardware!?

E.g. i can play NA PBs and big engagements with low graphics only - might be that I couldn’t do them at all if requirements would increase.

Showing the stats is a good way for slower computers to show al crucial information to every player.

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7 hours ago, admin said:

previous system was way better. sometimes too much information is a bad thing.

Says who?  Really right here in this tread your getting most of the players that are very active on the forums statying it's a bad thing.  Now back to the new guys and casual complaining, "Well I shot his mast 100 times."  Well did you pen? They have no clue.

 

6 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Still we have port taxes that are killing RvR for many (small/medium clans, casual playerbase). Taxes that are a pain to deal with due to the grind it takes to pay for them.

That WAS A MISTAKE, and it is still on the game.

The other day we made the most we ever made at Marsh Harbor 2 million mainly cause our guys been buying up all the trade goods and such and doing a lot of trade runs right now to support our port cost in clan.  You want to know what the port maintenance was?  1 Million, half of what we earned.  Why does port maintenance curve so high as your income goes up?  What the point of making the money if you loose half of it?   I think the curve should be off the 100K only not the 500K fee you add for timers, that should be a flat fee and the curve should be off the 100K only.   We loose money every day cause of most our ports don't make money, but we need to keep them up to protect our nation coast line.  Their prob isn't another clan in the US right now that can hold that many ports and we don't even have that many. It's not breaking us cause we have enough active players doing econ on the side and some of our guys are sitting on 200 million (not my broke arse).   I just don't understand how tax's go from 10% for every one else, but I have to pay 50% port maintenance on my earnings for a port? 

@admin Can you maybe shed some light on how the maintenance curve works on what your charged daily?  Cause it makes it realy hard for a small clan/nation to keep multi ports up over big clans/nations.

6 hours ago, EliteDelta said:

What about only showing the mast-splinter animation when the mast is penetrated. 

This right here would fix the problem.  We only see the splinters when it's a penetration and nothing else.  That will give both the attacker and defender notice of penetration.  Than give the powder puff ball when it's close to snapping or what ever you want to call it.   Other wise have non pens give no visual indication of a hit.

 

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8 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

The other day we made the most we ever made at Marsh Harbor 2 million mainly cause our guys been buying up all the trade goods and such and doing a lot of trade runs right now to support our port cost in clan.  You want to know what the port maintenance was?  1 Million, half of what we earned.  Why does port maintenance curve so high as your income goes up?  What the point of making the money if you loose half of it?   I think the curve should be off the 100K only not the 500K fee you add for timers, that should be a flat fee and the curve should be off the 100K only.   We loose money every day cause of most our ports don't make money, but we need to keep them up to protect our nation coast line.  Their prob isn't another clan in the US right now that can hold that many ports and we don't even have that many. It's not breaking us cause we have enough active players doing econ on the side and some of our guys are sitting on 200 million (not my broke arse).   I just don't understand how tax's go from 10% for every one else, but I have to pay 50% port maintenance on my earnings for a port? 

@admin Can you maybe shed some light on how the maintenance curve works on what your charged daily?  Cause it makes it realy hard for a small clan/nation to keep multi ports up over big clans/nations.

 

 

I would really like to see if admin realizes how bad is the timer tax for small or not hardcore clans.

The moment that a clan can not pay for his port, they stop feeling attached to it because they can lose it while they can not defend. This is the first step of not caring about RvR anymore, and one of the symptons of the bad shape of current rvr.

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7 hours ago, Wind said:

50/50 chance is legitimate and realistic. You will be making these decisions and you will be responsible for the outcome. 50% chance for you and 50% chance for the enemy is fair. 

I personally know of software that does demast calculations in NA and is used by some players. You guys have it too easy. What admin is going to do with this patch is to clean up this mess. 

Forcing player to count and rely on luck is what we need here. 

Except that isn't what admin is doing. It isn't 50/50 random chance. You will know every time you get a mast hit, but depending on the distance and mast thickness of the enemy, you either will penetrate or you wont. 
 

The issue I see with this, is that new and inexperienced players don't have all the cannon penetration tables and mast thickness/hp information memorized. Some captains do (myself included, mostly) and we will be able to still demast, but the new players will have no idea if they are getting penetration damage or not. 

@admin If we are going down this road, can we remove the mast hit notification all together? All it does is cause confusion because people think it means they are getting penetrations, similar to how hull/sails notifications work. 

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23 hours ago, Percival Merewether said:

But there was no complaints? Everyone was happy? I’m confused.

All but a few whinging testers like a new feature?  Something must be wrong! Remove it!

This wouldn't be the first time that the dev's respond to an otherwise universally liked feature by removing it. 🙄 My only gripe was that if the enemy was notified they got a mast pen then you should be notified you were penned.  I'd urge the dev's to walk this back, ignore their sycophant minority, and make it so you only get the splinter animation on a mast pen.  That way both players can gauge mast pens.

Too much information is never a bad thing in a niche, simulation-y game that appeals to a bunch of naval nerds. Making people guess at stuff is a universal method for upping frustration, just like RNG in a skill- or choice-based game does.

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14 minutes ago, Wraith said:

All but a few whinging testers like a new feature?  Something must be wrong! Remove it!

This wouldn't be the first time that the dev's respond to an otherwise universally liked feature by removing it. 🙄 My only gripe was that if the enemy was notified they got a mast pen then you should be notified you were penned.  I'd urge the dev's to walk this back, ignore their sycophant minority, and make it so you only get the splinter animation on a mast pen.  That way both players can gauge mast pens.

Too much information is never a bad thing in a niche, simulation-y game that appeals to a bunch of naval nerds. Making people guess at stuff is a universal method for upping frustration, just like RNG in a skill- or choice-based game does.

It's not like I can look at my masts and observe damage like I can the wings on a plane in a flight sim, the info needs to be there in some way, all your doing is blinding the player denying simple info like that, doesn't make for a great game! It'd be excusable if we have no spec'd info at all but we do for hull and structure which assumes your "crew" is taking note of this info to pass up to the player but apparently they weren't trained at looking for holes in the masts, what a blunder.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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8 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

It's not like I can look at my masts and observe damage like I can the wings on a plane in a flight sim, the info needs to be there in some way, all your doing is blinding the player denying simple info like that, doesn't make for a great game! It'd be excusable if we have no spec'd info at all but we do for hull and structure which assumes your "crew" is taking note of this info to pass up to the player but apparently they weren't trained at looking for holes in the masts, what a blunder.

The great irony here is that there would be no more visible a place on a ship where damage would be noticed, since the crew assigned to manipulate sails, yards, and manage the rigging are literally in the sails and meters away from where mast damage would be taking place. Even in non-combat conditions mast damage was immediately noticeable from sound alone and changing tensions  on shrouds as sails and yards were manipulated.

It just makes no sense to hide mast damage from the sailing ship while providing it to the enemy. If anything it should be reversed. But in a simulation-y game it just makes more sense to give damage information to everyone. It's just a quality of life situation.

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Just now, Wraith said:

mast damage was immediately noticeable from sound alone and changing tensions

So yards control should be affected by mast and rigging damage ? Sounds interesting.

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4 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

So yards control should be affected by mast and rigging damage ? Sounds interesting.

It would make sense to me.. but I think we all suspend a bit of disbelief since damage to "sails" and "masts" is all kind of a proxy that would include damage to rigging and shrouds, which isn't modeled. And from my understanding, it was the damage to these that were the most problematic and which caused most of the damage impacts on sailing.

I think it would make a lot of sense to decrease sail turn time and change sailing crew requirements as sail/mast damage accrued.  

I also think that with the limits placed on the amount of chain, we should greatly increase the effective range of chain and the damage it does at range. Alternatively, we greatly need to buff the amount of "rigging" and sail damage that ball does at range. And I also think the silly laser aim of rear chasers needs to be removed or balanced by placing laser aim on front chasers as well.

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There are two ways of informing players on both sides of a fight about mast pen without new and complicated features (which would make it a no go):

__________________________________

Different animations for pen or no pen for the mast shooting player.

Mast pen decals for penetrating shots and no- or different decals for non penetrating shots.

__________________________________

Counters on screen or with TAB press for both sides on number of penetrating mast hits, nothing else is needed. No need to separate between sections as people can get that info watching the roundshots fly.

__________________________________

Doable?

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4 hours ago, Hethwill said:

So yards control should be affected by mast and rigging damage ? Sounds interesting.

Absolutely!

4 hours ago, Wraith said:

It would make sense to me.. but I think we all suspend a bit of disbelief since damage to "sails" and "masts" is all kind of a proxy that would include damage to rigging and shrouds, which isn't modeled. And from my understanding, it was the damage to these that were the most problematic and which caused most of the damage impacts on sailing.

I think it would make a lot of sense to decrease sail turn time and change sailing crew requirements as sail/mast damage accrued.  

I also think that with the limits placed on the amount of chain, we should greatly increase the effective range of chain and the damage it does at range. Alternatively, we greatly need to buff the amount of "rigging" and sail damage that ball does at range. And I also think the silly laser aim of rear chasers needs to be removed or balanced by placing laser aim on front chasers as well.

Exactly. Maneuverability was most impacted by damage to the running rigging - a brace gets shot away and you won't be turning that yard. My understanding also is that in NA the general % damage to sails is supposed to represent damage to rigging as well. Also masts didn't just fall from direct hits, rather the supporting rigging was shot away, more often than direct hits IMO.  

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1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

@Ink @admin What was the hotpatch today about?

I noticed that mast hits are back on some streams maybe that’s what it was 

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38 minutes ago, Rebrall said:

I noticed that mast hits are back on some streams maybe that’s what it was 

You mean it shows if you hit even if you don't pen?  That was part of the May 10th hotfix.   

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On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 11:47 AM, admin said:

Update May 16th

  • Fixed crew damage participation in assists and pvp mark distribution

 

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On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 11:47 AM, admin said:

Update May 17th

  • Additional fixes for the ship capsizing bug

 

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On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 11:47 AM, admin said:

Update May 30th

  • Fixed the issue allowing killing and looting friendly NPC ships

 

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