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NO one said being ganked was fun, but I think that the game seems to be really trying to make "uber ninjas" in hyper ships able to fight off larger fleets.

I am pro basic ships with some build differentiation (as per wood types - <fast/weak----all purpose----tanky/slow> with a bit of crafting bonus and some mod bonuses for customization and rewards etc.

But mod stacking and having ships that go crazy fast or are super tanks which can wade through normal ships / hyper space away is silly. Its having this massive advantage that makes them feel that they can come to capitals and try and seal club etc regardless of open battles and so on. Plus its depressing for new players to think they are facing invincible enemies. Perhaps if there was less advantage with uber ships there would be less focus on capital waters hunting and more sailing and encouraging cruises etc and solo fights? Plus also less "uber" = less fear of losing ships, always a key for PVP.

I admire the skill of the good players and like watching how they skillfully sail and shoot etc solo or in small teams (even if they sink me!)

But I also think the repair system is massively flawed currently and also the way that many forum players base their conversations around "super ships" as the "norm" is flawed too.

Repairs are good and essential for tactics and excitement, but currently its too much with little downside. I think there should be IN COMBAT / OUT OF COMBAT repair modifiers, with reps less effective and sustaining crew damage if under fire.

There should also be a lot easier OW repairs when at 0% sail to simulate heaving too and making repairs. Currently in OW you use up all your reps in one go to fix small damage which makes going on combat cruises really difficult as after one engagement you can't dock for repairs (enemy territory) and you can't use reps as the you will run out for them in your next fight which = guaranteed loss in current system. Maybe make OW 1 repair kit for hull and 1 for sails PLUS 1 minute stationary with 0 % sails.(and maybe scale to  4 kits for frigate and say 10 for SOL)

Edited by VonVolks
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chain is good probably 3 instead of 2 shoots by canon

But i really dont like the idea to Limit repairs... for my part, the long fights that are possible in NA are best about the game... if you higher the rep timer or Limit the repairs the fight will end much faster... dont like the idea...

Edited by the Kidd

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i like 2 shots. 1 successfull broadside puts a enemy into rigging shock killing 30% of his sails. That forces him to achieve the same already or start repairing.

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If repairs wasn't unlimited limited chain wouldn't be so bad.

If cannons couldn't snipe mast as they could with super precision, chain wouldn't be so bad.

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On 4/27/2018 at 12:19 PM, rediii said:

i like 2 shots. 1 successfull broadside puts a enemy into rigging shock killing 30% of his sails. That forces him to achieve the same already or start repairing.

its to much. I rig shocked a suprise with my trinco chasers..... More chain and old damage would be better

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On 4/24/2018 at 3:24 PM, _Alucard_ said:

 

So the question here is simple: if you play alone and you are attacked by a group, why do they have more chain than you? That's not fair.

If the battle is 1 vs 1, no problem at all. Everything stays like it is right now.

But ( and this is a big but) if the battle is 2 vs 1, that 1 should have double amount of chain.

As things are now, this only encourages revenge fleets trying to kill damaged ships easily.  (won't give more info, but if you are in the reinforcement zone, you are fucked)

If you limit repairs, it will just make solo hunting imposible.

 

By the same logic if you are attacked 2v1 then the time between repairs should be halved for the lone player!!! They have more chain than you because they have more ships. I am surprised you would suggest such a thing as you are with a group of players that like to gank people around Belize 4v1 and you use the fact that you can rotate which ships are being repaired while still keeping your prey tagged and wearing him down as he cannot repair at the same rate.

Solo hunting should still be possible but what do you expect if you try an solo hunt outside a nation capital or important region as defined by the green zone? You appear to like the gank only when it is in your favor.

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1 hour ago, Archaos said:

By the same logic if you are attacked 2v1 then the time between repairs should be halved for the lone player!!! They have more chain than you because they have more ships. I am surprised you would suggest such a thing as you are with a group of players that like to gank people around Belize 4v1 and you use the fact that you can rotate which ships are being repaired while still keeping your prey tagged and wearing him down as he cannot repair at the same rate.

Solo hunting should still be possible but what do you expect if you try an solo hunt outside a nation capital or important region as defined by the green zone? You appear to like the gank only when it is in your favor.

You talk about ganking and that's what I get every time I sail to Belize. 

Once the word is spread a gank fleet is there to try to gank me or us. You have the reinforcement area, you have the numbers, you bring bigger ships and you may even have us damaged. And on top of that you have a lot more chain to use on me (or us) and you are still complaining. I've had a lot of fights outnumbered and outgunned and I've never complained, but now it's reaching a point where all the advantages are only for the revenge fleet and not for those who try to fight even in worse conditions.

You only see the point of the revenge fleet, but try to do what we do and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

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31 minutes ago, _Alucard_ said:

You talk about ganking and that's what I get every time I sail to Belize. 

Once the word is spread a gank fleet is there to try to gank me or us. You have the reinforcement area, you have the numbers, you bring bigger ships and you may even have us damaged. And on top of that you have a lot more chain to use on me (or us) and you are still complaining. I've had a lot of fights outnumbered and outgunned and I've never complained, but now it's reaching a point where all the advantages are only for the revenge fleet and not for those who try to fight even in worse conditions.

You only see the point of the revenge fleet, but try to do what we do and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

 

So you hunt in a capital area and get chased away..... most of the nations chase off hunters, swedes, french, US. I've been chased from Charlestown to the Bahama's quite a few times and by french "revenge" fleets but is to be expected as is outside their main ports.

 I would say try hunting elsewhere.... the reply is often "but all the targets are in capital area's",  well I guess all those "targets" group up to react to being hunted.

PvP-ers want it more hardcore, unless of course is against their own interests.

You have had this hate campaign against people who PvE, trade and look where we are now, less targets for you to hunt (falling server pop) and whining like children when the remaining PvP-ers chase you away.

 Also to the recent theme of most hardcore game PvP etc...... well hate to break it to you but I've played the most hardcore PvP game where economy is real money and have "ganked" people for up to $150 in space which is all lootable. Most i've seen taken from someone was over $1k USD, and people here go on about hardcore all over "magic Bean" play money.

Funny as hell.

Edited by Dibbler

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17 minutes ago, _Alucard_ said:

You talk about ganking and that's what I get every time I sail to Belize. 

Once the word is spread a gank fleet is there to try to gank me or us. You have the reinforcement area, you have the numbers, you bring bigger ships and you may even have us damaged. And on top of that you have a lot more chain to use on me (or us) and you are still complaining. I've had a lot of fights outnumbered and outgunned and I've never complained, but now it's reaching a point where all the advantages are only for the revenge fleet and not for those who try to fight even in worse conditions.

You only see the point of the revenge fleet, but try to do what we do and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

But you are attacking people in their green zone, what do you expect? If you do not want to face that then dont attack people in this zone.

What you also forget to mention is that you attack players that are already engaged against AI and may already be damaged and outnumbered. Personally when I did battles against AI in the safe zones they were usually double or even triple my BR to bring some challenge to it, and having one or more enemy players jump into that battle makes it very one sided especially the way the AI can snipe away at your crew from maximum range.

When I did get engaged by you outside the green zone in a 4v1 and I got the upper hand by sinking your teams Wasa all you did was keep me engaged at range while you called in more people so that you could retag me once you were ready to let me leave the battle. In that battle I took out quite a few of your teams masts but because of unlimited repairs and your ability to cycle ships repairs you were able to eventually wear me down. In that battle if my repair times were shortened because I was outnumbered I would not have lost my ship (as it was it took you over an hour to get me 4v1), but this is the same as what you are asking for with your chain being more because you are outnumbered. In an outnumbered battle the team with more ships will usually have the advantage and messing around with that will make a mess of all engagements.

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@admin The more I am fighting the more I dislike the chain. For some odd reason I have not lost a battle/duel since the patch but I think its to weak at long range and far to strong at short range. I rigged shocked a surprise with trinco chasers. I was also in a duel yesterday against someone and he could not repair sails because I was behind him doing more damage with chasers than he was repairing. Imo the damage needs some tweaking and the number of chain needs to be increased because now ganking is easier.... You said yourself it is to improve tactics but since this patch people are being raped in battles. Personally I don't believe the combat system is more challenging now because rig shocks at close range are to easy. 

Edited by HachiRoku

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I have been playing this game for 3 years now and every year the combat system improves for the most part up until recently. @admin has asked for the community opinion on chain and only wants to stay on the topic of chain. This is impossible in my opinion because 1 bad thing leads to another. 

I will start with chain because its the most game breaking thing atm. First of all it is far to strong at short range. I can rig shock a suprise with my chasers on my trinco. A ship that is in front of me CANNOT repair because my chasers do more damage than his sailors can repair so he basically wastes crew for 2 min. Limited chain does not matter in this instance because you can fire a long time with chasers. The problem with this is that certain ships like the trinco, wasa and ingermanland are very strong compared to others AND this is a very very good way to not use your broadside and just hide behind a ship as long as you want to. This was always the case to a certain extent. Engagements start of at very close ranges these days and this gives the leeward ship little to no chance to get into a better position or even run. If dron441, Liqy, Havelock, rediii attacked me with a trinco and they had the wind in open sea I would never engage because I would be stupid to with the current mechanics.  What do I do? I have no stern chasers, he would be retarded if he lost that position in a 1v1 if both ships did the same top speed +/- 1 knot. I cannot take his wind because he will just pound my sails with chasers. This way I will never have enough energy to tack. This is the most extreme in trinco 1v1s but chain destroying 2-5 % sails with 1 chain at close range is stupid. It also breaks rigging specialist because wtf difference does 2.5% make atm? It is also useless at long range and this is also a huge disadvantage. The range NEEDs to be increased and in my opinion the damage/range was just fine before. Also, admin has said it is more tactical now. I would like to hear 1 good argument on why it is more tactical? I have not seen a single battle that was decided over the better "tactical" usage of limited chain.1 ship chains the other and if he is lucky the enemy is rigged shocked. GG. well played

Now I will start with repairs. The main issues with repairs is the kiting/buying time tactics used by people today and repair mod stacking. Mistakes are not punished because kitting for 12 min will make up for it.

This a good example of how broken the combat is in my opinion:

Lord Bomgordel was smashing Raxius in a 1v1. Bom did a tack to make sure he did not give up the wind as any skilled captain would do but Raxius turned downwind and kited bom for 30 minutes, did 2 hull repairs until his ship was 100%. Bom only needed 1 repair but 40min into duel it was basically a new duel. Bom had longs and rax had carros. Bom could not chain rax at 400m because he didnt want to waste it against somebody that can angle their yards and depower. This makes the long gun very useless in the chain game and thats game breaking. Sure a long gun can pen more than a carro at long range but the issue is that at the ranges carros cannot pen, it becomes to easy to turn away and angle ship or yards in the case of chains.... The long gun ship cannot chain and slow the carro ship down because chain is useless at long range. 

Naval Actions combat system should be about the battle for the wind yet all of the changes in the recent year are in favor of the brawl. There is 0 skill in a brawl and I promise any of the best pvpers now. If you were to duel a RAKER when wind and tactics made sense. You would weap. I Hate to be the one pointing this out and criticizing all the time but I really do believe that the combat system and the current good pvpers including myself as a whole is the most casual it has ever been. I hope people can understand what I mean and if I had better upload I would make a video about it :( 

 

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I think you raise some actual problems here but state the wrong reasons on some aspects.

  • Rigging Specialist aint worth it anymore. Its nerf was WAY too harsh and its unbalanced towards other captain perks.
  • Chasers are too good with chain. I agree that this is caused by increased chain damage and its too high. On ships with bow chasers it creates situations where getting into bow-to-stern will give you a great advantage which increases skilllevel. But at the same time, stern chasers (esp on ships like the Surprise) actually make the stern-to-bow position favourable. 4 times chain with long 4pd can easily deal 4-8% sail damage.
  • We lack good sail HP upgrades. I think theres only the basic one for 10% and the Reinforced Sails book for something around 20% (not quite sure on the values here), but it also increases sailing crew by a lot.
  • On broadsides, chain actually is more tactical. If you aim good and take 25% off your opponent, he needs 1 rep cycle to restore that. If you miss your shots, you also miss the opportunity to gain this advantage.
  • A duel consists not only in hull bashing. You also have to make sure to capitalize on your opponents mistakes and make sure to not let him escape. Why was Raxius able to disangage this easily? Sure, keeping the wind is usually the favourable tactic. But keeping the pressure high is just as important! Maybe itd been better to turn downwind and follow him? Or maybe Bom missed a good opportunity before to give Raxius a chainrake?

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There should be NO sail upgrades..it's fabric.  There should be no sail repairs in battle instance as its no viable in a fight.  Sail repair after the battle can be 100%.

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24 minutes ago, Havelock said:

I think you raise some actual problems here but state the wrong reasons on some aspects.

  • Rigging Specialist aint worth it anymore. Its nerf was WAY too harsh and its unbalanced towards other captain perks.
  • Chasers are too good with chain. I agree that this is caused by increased chain damage and its too high. On ships with bow chasers it creates situations where getting into bow-to-stern will give you a great advantage which increases skilllevel. But at the same time, stern chasers (esp on ships like the Surprise) actually make the stern-to-bow position favourable. 4 times chain with long 4pd can easily deal 4-8% sail damage.
  • We lack good sail HP upgrades. I think theres only the basic one for 10% and the Reinforced Sails book for something around 20% (not quite sure on the values here), but it also increases sailing crew by a lot.
  • On broadsides, chain actually is more tactical. If you aim good and take 25% off your opponent, he needs 1 rep cycle to restore that. If you miss your shots, you also miss the opportunity to gain this advantage.
  • A duel consists not only in hull bashing. You also have to make sure to capitalize on your opponents mistakes and make sure to not let him escape. Why was Raxius able to disangage this easily? Sure, keeping the wind is usually the favourable tactic. But keeping the pressure high is just as important! Maybe itd been better to turn downwind and follow him? Or maybe Bom missed a good opportunity before to give Raxius a chainrake?

 

  • On broadsides, chain actually is more tactical. If you aim good and take 25% off your opponent, he needs 1 rep cycle to restore that. If you miss your shots, you also miss the opportunity to gain this advantage.

That is not what I would call tactical. There is nothing special about firing at the most sail area. Even when chain was not limited we did this because it always was decisive. It is very rare for someone to miss a broadside unless they are very very new to game. Now you simply get stuck into a situation where 2 ships angle yards and don't fire until its good. 

  • A duel consists not only in hull bashing. You also have to make sure to capitalize on your opponents mistakes and make sure to not let him escape. Why was Raxius able to disangage this easily? Sure, keeping the wind is usually the favourable tactic. But keeping the pressure high is just as important! Maybe itd been better to turn downwind and follow him? Or maybe Bom missed a good opportunity before to give Raxius a chainrake?

Bom chained raxius to 70% sail 2 times I believe but raxius repaired his sails, then hull then sails again before kiting. When you start to tack a Connie and realise your opponent is running you have lost so much speed you might aswell keep tacking. His speed was already gone and in that situation one might aswell keep taking or you will end of reversing downwind again. Do not forget that most times the windward ship should turn away and tack otherwise you only can rake and tank unnecessary damage from his side you don't want to damage. Notice the way 90% of duels I win one side is 100% vs 0%. There is no point in attackin both sides. You should try to split you 2 sides to his one. You cannot go broadside to broadside with an extra planking carro connie. Wind shifted 2 times against bom so his chain was wasted because it shifted right before he was getting into the position he wanted....  Wind shifts and limited chain are another issue I didn't think of untill now. Luckily for bom he had charged shot so he sniped an elite french rig ship to make sure escape was no longer an issue. The ship raxius was in was extremly hard to kill for bom because it was lighter longs vs heavy carros. The long range game was required but is no longer effective. 

Edited by HachiRoku
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18 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

There should be NO sail upgrades..it's fabric.  There should be no sail repairs in battle instance as its no viable in a fight.  Sail repair after the battle can be 100%.

This might work if the combat system was to real to be fun.....

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2 hours ago, Christendom said:

Can we bring back the 1 hull / 1 rig repair system again?  Battles were much more decisive.

The 2 minute repair timer has improved alot of things to be fair. It forces people to disengage longer. I don't think 1 rep each would be good. 3 reps in total. This way people can pve and not complain. Pvpers can repair 2 times, hull one time or vise versa. 

Edited by HachiRoku
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2016 I told not to change combat too much.  Admin can check forum archives, you can find it from there.

When every one loves your combat, tells you how F*ing awesome it is, they tell you that it is excellent.  Then you go and change EVERYTHING?

What is the change that F*ing awesome turns somehow to F*ing awesome PLUS?  What is the change that F*ing awesome turns to worse? I only know that the change that F*ing awesome turns to S.H.I.T is multiple times higher than upgrading to PLUS.

Games A and B are from the same genre.  These games are more or less the same game, small changes here and there but practically almost the same.  We all know that there are games like this.  BUT...  A has 10 million players and B has 100k players.  Why is that? Because those little things matter.

You don't do ANY MAJOR CHANGES WHEN YOUR PLAYERS SAY IT IS F*ING AWESOME.

Good luck with the game @admin, I know you think you are always right.

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I love how it is now. It forces parties to be wiser with their repairs. And helps stop this bs hit-and-run no-content-wasting of 3 hours-making the game-unbearable players. Those players are the biggest reason people stay in safe zones. They just waste time.

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9 hours ago, OneEyedSnake said:

Those players are the biggest reason people stay in safe zones.

Just because it's the reason you stay in safe zone doesn't make it apply to everyone. 

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26 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Just because it's the reason you stay in safe zone doesn't make it apply to everyone. 

Hahaha you made 2 errors with your statement. I am never in safe zones as I don’t sail in my home waters. And 2, I didn’t say the only reason, nor did I say everyone. I’m sorry if you get a ton of enjoyment from running away from people Hachi. I don’t know what to say? I know so many people that have quit this game because hit and run tactics took too much time and it was the meta when they quit. Several people Hachi, have these things called jobs and school. Sometimes, even both. @admin if you listen to this rag dolls rants you will continue to lose your playerbase. Understand that real life is more important than a game. Hachi does not understand this it seems. And if you make running the meta again. It will tell a lot of people the game labs NA team doesn’t either. As you have it now, it shows you do understand this. And I for one, thank you for it.

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@HachiRoku  Our design vision is to reduce running - to help captains avoid the fate of Admiral Byng. Everyone dies sinks Captain can die a hero fighting or die a coward running

We want USS Constitution to turn back in the Great Chase and destroy the British Squadron. We are adding and will add more tools to make it easier to fight outnumbered but make it harder to run. Of course you can disagree, but once everyone understands that running is impossible people will start fighting like lions..

Next patch Battle sails mode will receive amazing bonuses for turning and combat and sail resistance to promote fighting. 

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8 minutes ago, admin said:

@HachiRoku  Our design vision is to reduce running - to help captains avoid the fate of Admiral Byng. Everyone dies sinks Captain can die a hero fighting or die a coward running

We want USS Constitution to turn back in the Great Chase and destroy the British Squadron. We are adding and will add more tools to make it easier to fight outnumbered but make it harder to run. Of course you can disagree, but once everyone understands that running is impossible people will start fighting like lions..

Next patch Battle sails mode will receive amazing bonuses for turning and combat and sail resistance to promote fighting. 

If you want to reduce running why not  make sail repair take much longer as in the sails fixing themselves at a much slower rate.  You limit chain but not the repair, I like the new effect chain has, it can be devastating to sails, but one click of a button and it starts regenerating with the ship still running off into the distance.

Edited by Fletch67

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Next patch Battle sails mode will receive amazing bonuses for turning and combat and sail resistance to promote fighting. 

As some one that uses battle sails all the time and wish more did also this makes me a happy little tug boat.

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2 hours ago, admin said:

@HachiRoku  Our design vision is to reduce running - to help captains avoid the fate of Admiral Byng. Everyone dies sinks Captain can die a hero fighting or die a coward running

We want USS Constitution to turn back in the Great Chase and destroy the British Squadron. We are adding and will add more tools to make it easier to fight outnumbered but make it harder to run. Of course you can disagree, but once everyone understands that running is impossible people will start fighting like lions..

Next patch Battle sails mode will receive amazing bonuses for turning and combat and sail resistance to promote fighting. 

Вы делаете одну игру, а играем мы в другую😡. Сервер пустой и лыжный, равных боев кроме ПБ не бывает. Вся "инженерная" работа по сетапу - поиск компромисса между скоростью и возможностью вести бой. Поймать/сагрить кого-то рядом со столицей (обычно в зеленке), быстро утопить и на лыжи, потому что толпа "мстителей", любителей  впятером на одного уже летит и океаны тащит на беллон. Самим куда-то ехать им стремно, а вот у себя в зеленочке в самый раз. В основном такой вот пвп геймплей сейчас, да. Бои из которых нельзя сбежать у нас уже есть в пвп ивентах каждый день, там тяжелые корабли и царство зерга (поэтому там не густо).

И тут вот оно, виденье гейм дизайнера: "бегать сцуко плохо". А что делать-то? Агрить на себя толпы и тонуть на них? Не агрить? 

Есть очень простое решение: максимальный перевес по БР в бою - XX% Дальше нет входа в бой. Ни ганкерам, ни защитникам. Будет это процентов грубо говоря 30 - фиры, коттон сейлсы и прочие бовенвинды уйдут в небытие в боевых группах. Зачем бегать, если можно надавать по щщам в более-менее равном бою. И это будет уже не ганколыжный сервер, а совсем-совсем другой. Да, придется поработать. Сделать вызов подкрепления только для своих в ТС (примерно как в PotBS), добавить удобное /vote_kick чтобы не пускать в бой корабли, которые туда не вписываются.

Мое скромное мнение такое, что если у одной стороны есть возможность создать охрененный перевес по БР, то у другой стороны должна быть возможность от этого перевеса сбежать.

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