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Cetric de Cornusiac

A new approach to Portbattles, with troop ships involved

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I have been told 'war supplies' currently is out of function for preparing an invasion of an enemy port. They were used to deposit 'hostility' in a target harbor, if I understand this correctly.

The idea was not bad and I think it could be revived in another form, in context of what I will try to explain here as my next suggestion.

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The preparation of a planned invasion is crucial for success. My idea is about troop transports taking the place of 'war supplies'. Let's face it: to take over an enemy port an aggressor not only needs to defeat a fleet and fortifications of the harbor - historically and actually this is only the first stage to the following fight on land. This is done by landing troops who will fight against the defenders. Only after they win, the town will get conquered and taken over. When no troops are getting on the shore, you can bombard the place with your ships as you please, it will not be yours by that alone.

So, gamewise, how could this important aspect of an amphibious invasion be represented? - We will have to build 'troop transports' for the port battle. They could be AI-steered or players are commissioned by their clans to command the troop transports. This is a crucial part of the battle and only the best players should be selected for that task, because it will be in their hands if the invasion succeeds or not. In that role they do not participate in sinking enemy ships, they concentrate in bringing their ships to target areas and keeping them afloat while they unload troops (repairs possible on board). We will have battles for dominating zones as before, but also we will have to defend those troop ships (or stop and sink them, from point of view of the defender) so they make it to a designated landing zone - usually a beach close to town or the town pier. Troop transports have to be protected by all means to reach this place, where they will unload their troops in longboats. This while they are shielded from the defenders by their accompanying war ships. Hopefully.

Port battles could still contain mechanics like now where you get your victory points from the struggle about domination zones, so this part of the conquest will not become obsolete, we would only have to add a new part, about the troop ships safely reaching their destination. Every port has a calculation based on what's necessary in Battle Rating for attacking it, as far as its land troop defenses are concerned. Now what the attacker would need is to bring to the beach enough troops to outnumber the calculated defenders. This will determine the port flipping.

Defensa_de_Cartagena_de_Indias_por_la_es

The troop transport would have to be a new ship type in game, larger and less elegant than the Indiaman. Bulky and rather defenseless, made for containing as many soldiers and weapons inside as possible and providing the means of unloading them. This could be symbolized by animations which start the moment the transport reaches beach or mole, triggered by AI or the Captain who commands the troop ship. You can still interrupt the process, it has to be completed in a given time window for success.

Troop transports will be one-time instruments and not usable for something else, like shipping cargo. They are built exactly for a given invasion plan, in a port of the attacker. You use the same material for them as are necessary for 'war supplies', plus soldiers.  It would be rather interesting for battle development if you have to bring them on OW to destination (escorted of course by the battle groups). Very precious. The key to success or failure. If you loose them already on the march to destination, the port battle would become meaningless (or only be fought for victory points, but no actual flipping the port). Once being used for a port battle, the troop transport will disappear and you will have to build and collect new ones for another port battle to come. In the way 'war supplies' did.

5376fdc51029b35af3db477608311ca4--authen

Effect: More tactical requirements for both the voyage to target port and the port battle itself. A new role as commander of transport vessels who has a decisive importance for victory or failure. When the port battle and invasion are done, the commanders of troop ships would either find themselves in the conquered town or a spawning basic cutter represents their escape vessel as the transport has to be left at the place, if successful or not.

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I agree that there is something still lacking in portbattles. Not sure yet if what you describe is realy interesting for players because also right now there are ships noone wants to sail and I dont see anyone saying "fuck yeah i sail a transport ship!" in portbattles especially that yohr job is to ... sail and stop somewhere

 

But yes there has to be something inside a portbattle where you capture the town itself if defenders just sail away.

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Troop transports, elite fleets, gold caravans - have the problem
The problem with gold caravans (ai or player) or troop transports is this - Instanced battles

Instanced battles are absolutely impossible to work around as we want 500-2500 players in the open world at the same time. 

You can keep the troop transport in battle - forever. See the troop transport - attack, kite for 1.5 hours, repeat.
Second problem is 50 ship limit. 10 troop transports means 10 less ships in battle for your side.. 
 

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4 minutes ago, admin said:

Troop transports, elite fleets, gold caravans - have the problem
The problem with gold caravans (ai or player) or troop transports is this - Instanced battles

Instanced battles are absolutely impossible to work around as we want 500-2500 players in the open world at the same time. 

You can keep the troop transport in battle - forever. See the troop transport - attack, kite for 1.5 hours, repeat.
Second problem is 50 ship limit. 10 troop transports means 10 less ships in battle for your side.. 
 

Ships equipped with marines could count as troop ships maybe?

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48 minutes ago, rediii said:

Not sure yet if what you describe is realy interesting for players because also right now there are ships noone wants to sail and I dont see anyone saying "fuck yeah i sail a transport ship!" in portbattles especially that yohr job is to ... sail and stop somewhere

Their success in bringing the troops ashore is crucial for flipping the port! If the captain of the troop transport fails, so the whole action will fail except for having sunk x enemy ships and won points.

I can imagine the role of the troop transport captain will be highly prestigious in every nation because of that importance, not, as you seem to think, sort of an idiot job nobody wants to do.

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Just now, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

I can imagine the role of the troop transport captain will be highly prestigious in every nation because of that importance, not, as you seem to think, sort of an idiot job nobody wants to do

Like the Flag carrier.

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24 minutes ago, admin said:

Second problem is 50 ship limit. 10 troop transports means 10 less ships in battle for your side..

If the number of ships is a problem, then only take one or two big transports for major ports, one for minor ports, and a small transport for shallow water ports. So the number additionally to fighting ships will be only 1 - 2. I did not imagine masses like "ten transports".

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26 minutes ago, Sella22 said:

Ships equipped with marines could count as troop ships maybe?

Like a Conquest-related Troop Carrier mod that takes up hold space.

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37 minutes ago, No name, no flag said:

Perhaps make it necessary for the port battle ships themselves to carry the infantry or marines, which they must land at the end of the battle to take the port.

 

I would like the transport to be absolutely perceivable and distinctive. If any ship-of-the-line would have a second role for possibly bringing infantry to the shore, the tactics would not evolve around that special key ship which brings the turning point of the battle. So attention of the defenders is focused on this one or two important ships, trying to get near them for preventing the invasion. If any SOL can act as transport, there is no special treatment and no tactical new aspect. Not much of it, I mean.

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10 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Their success in bringing the troops ashore is crucial for flipping the port! If the captain of the troop transport fails, so the whole action will fail except for having sunk x enemy ships and won points.

I can imagine the role of the troop transport captain will be highly prestigious in every nation because of that importance, not, as you seem to think, sort of an idiot job nobody wants to do.

Do you play in portbattles ... right now?

Because a mortar brig can do a lot more than a troop trnasport and noone wants to sail this ship already.

You think about portbattles and the players that do them too roleplay-like I think. :D

Because there is another problem aswell, can I jjst take fast ships and suicide into the troop ships, kill them and get killed in the process?

Losing my whole fleet but winning the PB

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3 minutes ago, rediii said:

can I jjst take fast ships and suicide into the troop ships, kill them and get killed in the process?

That reminds me of my other proposal, about changes that teach players not to take their ingame death too lightly but struggle for surviving. 😀

Anyway, that is an interesting point you make, this is more or less the classic 'fire ship' you think of, filled with gunpowder. Something more to protect from...

But I don't think the transport could be sunk this way. Damaged, yes, but no one-hit-one-loss story. We don't have torpedoes in this period of history...

Edited by Cetric de Cornusiac

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1 minute ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

That reminds me of my other proposal, about changes that teach player not to take their ingame death too lightly but struggle for surviving. 😀

Anyway, that is an interesting point you make, this is more or less the classic 'fire ship' you think of, filled with gunpowder. Something more to protect from...

But I don't think the transport could be sunk this way. Damaged, yes, but no one-hit-one-loss story. We don't have torpedoes in this period of history...

im not talking about fireshipping.

10 1st rates fir fir ... what can a troopship do against that?

... hugging the troopships, ramming them frontal ... going to boarding instantly etc.

Edited by rediii

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6 minutes ago, maturin said:

Like a Conquest-related Troop Carrier mod that takes up hold space.

Then it will become a fake feature? Unless it really gimps the ship (slows you down or such)
 But then we again face the 25v25 limit issue. Taking troopships will make it impossible to capture the port (while in reality it helped). 

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For the most part Marines were used for limited landings, usually to secure fortifications of important buildings, this usually negated the need for dedicated troop transports. Troop transports were more usually used to reinforce, or swap out units already placed, The loss of troopships and supply ships destined for General Cornwallis played a very significant role in the loss of America, had he of received those, the outcome of the American Revolution may well have been very different.

The huge advantage of using marines was that once a combat vessel delivered them they could then return to being a fighting unit in the battle itself, returning to collect their marines later if the Battle was successful. 

I think the greater use of Marines would be of more practical benefit and certainly a far better use of limited resources.

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

Then it will become a fake feature? Unless it really gimps the ship (slows you down or such)
 But then we again face the 25v25 limit issue. Taking troopships will make it impossible to capture the port (while in reality it helped). 

Why are we restricted to 25v25?  Can unity 5 not handle more?

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1 minute ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

The huge advantage of using marines was that once a combat vessel delivered them they could then return to being a fighting unit in the battle itself, returning to collect their marines later if the Battle was successful. 

 

Landing would be impossible if there is no Naval Dominance in the area. Current screening action and port battle just simulates the achievement of the dominance through zone control and once you destroy defending fleet your imaginary troop ships operate without any interference capturing the port. 

Thus - troop ship might not add anything to the game if not designed properly (to cover all potential abuse or griefing).
But if this abuse or griefing is solved then troop ships might shine (though they can still be abstracted).

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I would like to see something that uses a fort at A circle ... capping the fort with a circle smaller than other circles or something gives you 500 points for example

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3 minutes ago, admin said:

Landing would be impossible if there is no Naval Dominance in the area. Current screening action and port battle just simulates the achievement of the dominance through zone control and once you destroy defending fleet your imaginary troop ships operate without any interference capturing the port. 

Thus - troop ship might not add anything to the game if not designed properly (to cover all potential abuse or griefing).
But if this abuse or griefing is solved then troop ships might shine (though they can still be abstracted).

What if fort or something at A is captureable and gives a lot of points. Can be retaken by defender. Mortar can destroy the cannons of it but still has to be "boarded"

This would effectivly kill the ability to kite as defender

Edited by rediii

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2 minutes ago, rediii said:

I would like to see something that uses a fort at A circle ... capping the fort with a circle smaller than other circles or something gives you 500 points for example

This could add a new hole bunch of tactics in PBs. Very interesting to consider it @admin

 

Edited by Intrepido
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1 minute ago, rediii said:

I would like to see something that uses a fort at A circle ... capping the fort with a circle smaller than other circles or something gives you 500 points for example

Which is the role Marines were designed for, used in conjunction with Mortar brigs, which already require some form of escort, so why not give the escort a secondary role of landing Marines to help capture the forts?

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4 minutes ago, admin said:

Then it will become a fake feature? Unless it really gimps the ship (slows you down or such)
 But then we again face the 25v25 limit issue. Taking troopships will make it impossible to capture the port (while in reality it helped). 

we have towers in batlle why there cant be some scripted troopships on top of the 25 ships. (in my opinion those ship dont have to shoot just sail from A to B). Those ships generate a moving capture circle. They can be sunk (they have more hp than normal ships) demasting and chaining only works limited because they have sail repair over time xx% per min or captured (by capping the circle) when reaching the target location the attacker gets a winning point boost.

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Summarized again:

Either boarding vs fort or smaller circle close to town should give a lot of points for the one holding it. This way the defender cant sail away and "abandon" port and win the portbattle this way. I kind of dont believe in history that a PB was defended by ships sailing away from town/port.

 

... simulating the taking of the town/port/main fort

Edited by rediii
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How about ideas that would bring players back. What is the point of Port battle if no one is in it? I like the idea, but at this point it does not benefit the game. 

Edited by Project Pluto

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13 minutes ago, admin said:

Then it will become a fake feature? Unless it really gimps the ship (slows you down or such)
 But then we again face the 25v25 limit issue. Taking troopships will make it impossible to capture the port (while in reality it helped). 

It should slow you down(not as much as a floating battery mod)and reduce your armament to accommodate the extra personel that is being carried. But the second one might be too big of a disadvantage. The troop carrier could spawn row boats or gunboats that ferry the troops ashore when you are inside the troop landing circle. The boats can be sunk. There is a similar mechanic in battlestations Pacific when you capture islands.

There could be some slots reserved for troop carriers in PBS but I don't know if that is the best idea to implement them.

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