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Next big patches: Real currency and Open world user interface update


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One way for a clan or Nation to pay for their ports would be for the introduction of a bank as a Building. These Banks could be in two Tiers, Clan and Nation, costs for a National bank being higher than clan banks

This could cost for example 3 Million to set up in a port, and would cover all of that nations ports in a given area,  eg a bank in Flatts covers Somerset and St Georges Town, enabling port costs to be paid daily for those ports when sufficient funds are in the bank.

Money can be deposited and withdrawn in any of these ports (notes being issued and then redeemed), but only by officers of the clan who could be given the tital of Financier.

This could have the effect of concentrating Nation Holdings, if you conquer a port not covered by a bank, then you have to have the necessary funds in that port to pay for all running costs, or build a new bank.

If a Nation wants to expand their territories they then have to consider how and by whom the costs are to be covered.

This could also lead to a System where Traders could insure their ships and goods, eg a Trader sailing textile machinery from A to B with an outlay of 2 Million buying the goods, ship costs of 1 Million for 4 Indiamen and an expected Profit of  4.5 Million on sale of the goods could apply to insure the journey. He would have to pay .75 Million insurance.

If the ships are sunk or captured he receives 1.5 Million in insurance, if he successfully completes the journey the Profit is his, but the insurance Money is lost.This insurance Money is paid into the bank, and anything left in there after successful journeys is used for port upkeeps.

Every Player has to decide is the journey dangerous enough to Warrant insurance, if it is and the ships are sunk at least they will not lose everything.

 

Edited by Glorgir
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42 minutes ago, fox2run said:
 

Here is an overview from Oxford bibliographies. If you like to go beyond the Google level of things. It was much more complex than sailing around with gold in the cargo:

I responded to your statement on "Gold dubloons is much more fantasy and something that belongs to a Pirates of the Caribbean universe 200 years before the period of NA ", by providing evidence that doubloons is not fantasy and were used much later than 1830. 

And you copy some links about unrelated subject of carrying gold in cargo? (with minor veiled trolling)?

This is called "moving the goalposts" where you respond to the critique of your statement by bringing another unrelated subject, making goalposts wider or moving them elsewhere.. Please avoid this on the forum. It might work elsewhere but not here. 

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39 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said:

I would argue against making money physical, especially for the port taxes.

If we're going historical then clan wouldn't exist, and daily taxes would also not exist and certainly not make a port become neutral for non payment.

It would be good to see some sort of action a Clan must take weekly or some such to keep a port from going neutral. Lots of ports in the game are owned by clans that never use them, or owned by dead clans. 

Edited by Capt Trashal Early
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39 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

1. Having to sail to distant conquered ports to pay for taxes or taking the profits to the port where the clan warehouse is, every day. Doing this every day could end in people giving up.

 

The way to do this would be to either pay for X number of days up front, or..   have a system where the port withdraws from a clan store daily.  So you just need to make sure you have enough funds in the store to permit you to stock up as often as you like.

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9 minutes ago, rediii said:

Bankbuilding with daylie maintenance ... its working with trading outposts etc. so why not a bank to get and deposit money?

It would be even greater if theee was a banking system run by players but that may get too complicated to work.

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Please keep in mind that this is a game. 

Clan warehouse will act as a bank and will pay for all the ports. 
When we talk about the idea of the physical currency transporting need we only talk about the trading and pvp rewards. Once you get it to clan warehouse it will not require additional travel.

What is being discussed: We want to consider the possibility to remove the magic electronic wallet for battle rewards and marks and from trading. 
The interesting outcome from this feature would be actually increased PVP risks especially risks in hunting around capitals: Right now it is still safe to hunt around capitals. It does not feel like a raid; pvp players wins 2-3 battles sinks in the 4th one - but still keeps all the rewards. This feature might actually give some ability for the defenders to deny all rewards from the hunter by counter ganking him. which will bring the balance to the force universe

Also keep in mind that it is just an idea for discussion: Thus no need to get defensive and negative. Lets talk constructively about benefits and negatives of additional risk in pvp and trading. 

 

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8 minutes ago, admin said:

This feature might actually give some ability for the defenders to deny all rewards from the hunter by counter ganking him. 

If the defender gets all the rewards the hunter has made so far then it might encourage more PvP and it might be okay, but if the gold just vanishes when the ship sinks it will just cause more frustration for almost nothing imo.

Edited by Jon Snow lets go
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3 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

If the defender gets all the rewards the hunter has made so far then it might encourage more PvP and it might be okay, but if the gold just vanishes when the ship sinks it will just cause more frustration for almost nothing imo.

my hope with currency rework in mind and other OW rework (trading/Clan) that it leads to a spread of population over the hole map. Then it might be a really good feature. Alone its bs like you said.

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10 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Also you would hurt a lot those dedicated to trading. Trading is usually a risky thing because of your low chances to survive a battle in your trading ships against a warship.

Maybe trading have its own rewards that cant be fucked if you lose.

the thing is
It is already like that (like you described). You lose your trading ship already if you are fighting against a warship. 

The difference becomes that with physical coins PVP players become ALSO a great target and also get increased risk (which grows the longer you hunt).
Which is not the case now.   This extra adrenaline might liven up the world and will balance the difference in risk between traders and pvp hunters.

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27 minutes ago, admin said:


What is being discussed: We want to consider the possibility to remove the magic electronic wallet for battle rewards and marks and from trading. 
The interesting outcome from this feature would be actually increased PVP risks especially risks in hunting around capitals: Right now it is still safe to hunt around capitals. It does not feel like a raid; pvp players wins 2-3 battles sinks in the 4th one - but still keeps all the rewards. This feature might actually give some ability for the defenders to deny all rewards from the hunter by counter ganking him. which will bring the balance to the force universe

Honestly, this sounds like an idea that will get more people to quit.

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4 minutes ago, rediii said:

there are no rewards for hunters except max. pvp marks but in general they dont care and only look to harm the enemy and/or get nice fights

That might be true but I cannot imagine a situation where a player would discard gold or silver currency won in a fight. They would load it on their ship and thus become a target themselves.

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1 hour ago, Banished Privateer said:

maybe in the first fight, but not in revenge fleets... Sometimes a first fight is a fair and square 1v1. F11 coords are not helping the case, but they are supposed to be removed on release... (I hope sooner).

1-1 should that be s garanty for a fair fight?

You vs me. My guess you would win 9 of 10. Fair was if I could win about half. But I like that skill matters.

If you can get away more than 1/2 the time, I think the advantage with invisibility and wind is to big. 

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Please keep in mind that this is a game. 

Clan warehouse will act as a bank and will pay for all the ports. 
When we talk about the idea of the physical currency transporting need we only talk about the trading and pvp rewards. Once you get it to clan warehouse it will not require additional travel.

What is being discussed: We want to consider the possibility to remove the magic electronic wallet for battle rewards and marks and from trading. 
The interesting outcome from this feature would be actually increased PVP risks especially risks in hunting around capitals: Right now it is still safe to hunt around capitals. It does not feel like a raid; pvp players wins 2-3 battles sinks in the 4th one - but still keeps all the rewards. This feature might actually give some ability for the defenders to deny all rewards from the hunter by counter ganking him. which will bring the balance to the force universe

Also keep in mind that it is just an idea for discussion: Thus no need to get defensive and negative. Lets talk constructively about benefits and negatives of additional risk in pvp and trading. 

 

Frankly speaking the reward for trading - in times when moving gold was dangerous - were letters of credit (they were invented for this purposes).

What it could be done is a sort of balance: placing in certain ports (In example in all - or in most - regional capitals, but not only in national capitals) a "caribbean commercial bank" office where you can drop your currency (maybe for a little fee) and have it "available" in each port where there is another office of the caribbean commercial bank.

Edited by victor
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What about if we give the player the ability to add one or two spots on the map where he could call upon his “man of business”.  Basically, it would be a creditor who communicated every now and then with the player’s main banker. If you get your loot to your “man of credit”, then that loot is considered safe and conveyed to your main bank  

To me, this solves the problem of people not wanting to use every area of the huge map, which honestly is one of the best attributes of this game. 

Take for example, the factions that have finally started using the West Florida/Louisiana region.  I can quickly see these areas being abandoned if one is forced to sail currency/loot back down to their main warehouse.  

If one is allowed to set up ONE or TWO “men of business” in strategic areas, it would still allow use of map AND more immersion of having to actually protect you wealth.  

There are certainly ways you can adjust/implement them. Maybe they can only be in county capitals.  Maybe they can only be in towns with a certain threshold of economic activity.  Or maybe they can be in little known “tax havens”. 

Even more ambitious would be the ability for a clan to set up one “hidden port” where only clan members are allowed to enter.   

I see many options here and think anything that adds to the emotional investment can only be a good thing. We all know this game is a huge time commitment, but the level of detail and immersion is appreciated by most of us.  

Edited by Vernon Merrill
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12 minutes ago, victor said:

Frankly speaking the reward for trading - in times when moving gold was dangerous - were letters of credit (they were invented for this purposes).

What it could be done is a sort of balance: placing in certain ports (In example in all - or in most - regional capitals, but not only in national capitals) a "caribbean commercial bank" office where you can drop your currency (maybe for a little fee) and have it "available" in each port where there is another office of the caribbean commercial bank.

True, and the letters of credit were issued as investment - the trader was expected to ferry the goods of the small and big money "lenders". Maritime trade would be bound, promising to deliver back and forth in the ports of interest, not just as a deposit of cash.

This could be rather interesting as Trade type missions. Meaning in the event of a player building a outpost, these could have a Investor/Bank building.

Trade between outpost with Investor/Bank ports would be covered by the promise letters, no gold needed. Trade between everywhere else, well, cash needed.

 

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9 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

True, and the letters of credit were issued as investment - the trader was expected to ferry the goods of the small and big money "lenders". Maritime trade would be bound, promising to deliver back and forth in the ports of interest, not just as a deposit of cash.

This could be rather interesting as Trade type missions. Meaning in the event of a player building a outpost, these could have a Investor/Bank building.

Trade between outpost with Investor/Bank ports would be covered by the promise letters, no gold needed. Trade between everywhere else, well, cash needed.

 

Actually there are two kind of letter of credit, the payment/guarantee one (which is the one you refer too which is the most modern version) and the "older" one - whose purpose was to avoid moving gold coins - which worked more or less like a bank account: you bring the letter of credit of your bank (which was i.e. in your capital city)  to another bank (which is in another port) and this bank will give you the "real" money. I was thinking to this second one.

You still have to move money you earn to the nearest bank office (depending on how many bank offices you spread in the map), but less than if you should carry everything to the capital.

Edited by victor
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55 minutes ago, victor said:

Actually there are two kind of letter of credit, the payment/guarantee one (which is the one you refer too which is the most modern version) and the "older" one - whose purpose was to avoid moving gold coins - which worked more or less like a bank account: you bring the letter of credit of your bank (which was i.e. in your capital city)  to another bank (which is in another port) and this bank will give you the "real" money. I was thinking to this second one.

You still have to move money you earn to the nearest bank office (depending on how many bank offices you spread in the map), but less than if you should carry everything to the capital.

I believe you are referring to the type used as far back as the Templars :)

To make the most of this idea..  the reality was that interest/conversion rates were based on the standing of the particular captain/merchant in that port.  This would open up that whole area, long asked for, of having a mechanism for improving status in a port for individual captains...  not clans, but individuals so that they could get the best return on their "notes".  It could also open up the possibility of loans with interest rates if you have sufficient standing in a port.

However, this also opens up the possibility (which may need to be stopped) of trading letters of credit, otherwise i see loopholes in the system whereby getting and exchanging letters of credit could be used to grief the system :) especially within clans.

 

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2 hours ago, admin said:

I responded to your statement on "Gold dubloons is much more fantasy and something that belongs to a Pirates of the Caribbean universe 200 years before the period of NA ", by providing evidence that doubloons is not fantasy and were used much later than 1830. 

And you copy some links about unrelated subject of carrying gold in cargo? (with minor veiled trolling)?

This is called "moving the goalposts" where you respond to the critique of your statement by bringing another unrelated subject, making goalposts wider or moving them elsewhere.. Please avoid this on the forum. It might work elsewhere but not here. 

I was arguing for the fact that it wasn't gold but more credit notes that where on board the vessels. (Except from far East trade where silver occurred often).

Hence the present system mirror real life pretty good.

Any view point that is not shared by admins are not necessary trolling. Keep this in mind. Tnx.

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2 hours ago, admin said:

Please keep in mind that this is a game. 

Clan warehouse will act as a bank and will pay for all the ports. 
When we talk about the idea of the physical currency transporting need we only talk about the trading and pvp rewards. Once you get it to clan warehouse it will not require additional travel.

What is being discussed: We want to consider the possibility to remove the magic electronic wallet for battle rewards and marks and from trading. 
The interesting outcome from this feature would be actually increased PVP risks especially risks in hunting around capitals: Right now it is still safe to hunt around capitals. It does not feel like a raid; pvp players wins 2-3 battles sinks in the 4th one - but still keeps all the rewards. This feature might actually give some ability for the defenders to deny all rewards from the hunter by counter ganking him. which will bring the balance to the force universe

Also keep in mind that it is just an idea for discussion: Thus no need to get defensive and negative. Lets talk constructively about benefits and negatives of additional risk in pvp and trading. 

 

Tell me, except in there VERY rare case, where is the risk for the group that only engages with a 4 to 1 advantage? All a change like that would do is make life more rewarding for the gankers and even harder for the gankees. You are however right in claiming it will increase PvP risk, and do you know what increased PvP risk ALWAYS leads to?

Increased group sizes.

Edited by NethrosDefectus
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On 4/19/2018 at 9:05 PM, admin said:


Current name for in game currency is outdated (it was always only for temp name).
The game will move to a Caribbean currencies of the 18th century

  • New currencies
    • In game gold will be replaced by Real (or Spanish reals)
    • Pieces of eight will be introduced (or 8 Reals Coin or piastr)
    • Double Escudo or Doublooon (or Lous D`Or  or Pistole) will be introduced
    • Silver 8 Reals and gold double escudo will be freely convertible between each other, but they can only be received from the government (as rewards for battles or port battles or from mint)
  • Money will be denominated (huge denomination will be applied reducing prices to the 18th Century Caribbean levels)
  • New building will be introduced - mint. Mint will be required tomake coins and will require victory marks to build
  • Crafting blueprints updated for ships and shipbuilding materials
  • Mission rewards/pve rewards/pvp rewards changed

Admin i have a question:

How will mint actualy work and could you crash a currency if too much coins are made ?

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Hunters start to look for trading routes and try to cap a trader. For the case of success they have a big treasure like 1000 dublons for example. That should animate much players to hunt the treasure instead of "Ah another player get robbed, doesnt matter". Maybe the hunters are a group of 3. One is sailing the captured trader ship, and he becomes an important target to board and to defend. Next time the trader organise an escort when transport high values. That could lead to a good fight between escort ships and hunting group. Sounds like a good "age of sail" gameplay element in my ears.

 

 

Edited by Sven Silberbart
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