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Tutorial feedback 2

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18 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I would say mission accomplished. No problem to sink much bigger ships with a pickle @Banished Privateer but thoses ai's -.-

We agree that exam is hard.
But we wanted it to be hard.
Maybe it will make feel easier for you that itt was harder initially, (cerberus vs bellona) but it failed to pass the approval as everyone in the office (including people not related to NA) had to pass the final after 1 day of practice 2 cerberuses were passed by everyone. i am very confident that everyone can do it. 

My personal feedback was only one - heel is excessive 
But this exam will be much easier once we fix our old pet peeve pointed out by @Banished Privateer - reworked depower separated from sails. And heel needs to be  slightly reduced for light frigates.

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3 minutes ago, admin said:

We agree that exam is hard.
But we wanted it to be hard.
Maybe it will make feel easier for you that itt was harder initially, (cerberus vs bellona) but it failed to pass the approval as everyone in the office (including people not related to NA) had to pass the final after 1 day of practice. i am very confident that everyone can do it. 

Add a tutorial for fighting vs multi ships in order to prepair for the final exam. Whats is missing are hints to fight more than one ship at the same time.

I agree its hard and i dont say it should be nerfed. People that love the game will stick around and retry till they finally succed the rest will refund or skip like you said.

 

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Yup.  Final exam was difficult but not impossible.  Dont forget to loot the first ship after you kill it.  

Those extra hull repairs saved my arse.

Made it with 10 mins to spare and one hull rep left....

Whatever you do, DO NOT get in between the two of them.

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image.thumb.png.8121a2abf9a4ced10839d78f4c2778f2.png

Dont know if intended but you can get endless doubleshot in the final exam by capturing the ai and transfer your crew.

Edit:

Not endless ammo but a lot (can not see the number)

Edited by z4ys
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4 hours ago, admin said:

same ship as yours. 
Guys.. practice.. all tutorials can be passed by a random 3d modeller with no naval action experience after a good number of tries. 

tip: use single shot.
 

I think difficult is perfect... its right thats called "Final Exam"  Newbies have to try it more then once for understand the mechanics what they can do and what not in battle! But maybe after 1-3 Failure give some little tipps how they can fight better... o/

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re-posting this here so that it's in the right place:

1 hour ago, Greysteak said:

The endurance exam and the final were pleasantly difficult.  Got caught unprepared in the endurance exam.  That was great.  I don't think they should be easy.

I think the tutorials got most of the important stuff.  The only thing I'd add would be an exercise to use both the rudder and yards at the same time. 

I noticed that the chain usage in the third tutorial is not consistent with the new chain rules.  That was the only thing I thought needed fixing.

Afraid to try the rewards, but I will.

 

 

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- did all of it it at 1st attempt, even final exam, did capture both enemy ships

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198184764970/screenshot/2421124703734021470

saw nothing out of the ordinary, in a veteran point of view, other than the player ship is not equipped nor perked as we always do with our own ships. They are all the same AI as ever in the OW.

Final exam is hard for the new players but it teaches a lot by attempting several times and trying different things. Not different from fighting AI in the OW in similar conditions. They felt absolutely the same if you ever fought AI with a non equipped, non perked, store bought ship.

- maybe post some tips remembering player of trying demast, grape, etc - combat is highly dynamic and complex and can be overwhelming for a start. I think after the third attempt anyone will start to get the hang of the battle flow.

What is lacking in the Tutorial series:

- Crew management - numbers and transfer crew from stations and blocking the reloads

- Tutorial One before anything else should be a Battle Interface overview showing where the compass is, what the yard lines are, etc

- advanced - Tactics - wind management

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1 hour ago, z4ys said:

image.thumb.png.8121a2abf9a4ced10839d78f4c2778f2.png

Dont know if intended but you can get endless doubleshot in the final exam by capturing the ai and transfer your crew.

i need to check if i inspect inventory again after the swap what kind of build and mods it have :o

 

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Just a UI suggestion regarding the Tutorial/Academy book layout

unknown.png

 

Make the markers on the left different colours. Like Blue, Gold and burgundy type of thing. Easier to spot and not get lost on how to continue the tutorials to the next phase. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, admin said:

The hidden goal of any endurance exam is this
Cut off players who dont fit. 

lwihzVd.jpg

We dont want all new players - we want the right players who will fit.

Remember we are not making games just for the money - here is a story about our "F*** you" to Apple Inc and money in general  -  described in USA Today - https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/06/25/apple-pulls-confederate-flag-games/29287163/    or polygon https://www.polygon.com/2015/6/25/8846695/apple-confederate-flag-civil-war/comment/313260912

The real goal of the tutorials to cut off whiners right from the start. Let them refund or do whatever. We want the right players in the game. Wrong players will just go refund after couple of attempts. 

 

8771d1ed9a147933596323a021b5fa490272214a10b8b851617c19bf558ea9ca.jpg

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3 hours ago, admin said:

Remember the pve challenge from early 2017 - who knew you can pass the full demasting challenge in less than 10 seconds. Or who knew that you can sink 3 ships in a row in 4 mins?

But how many people were able to do this? The leaderboard was almost the same people daily. I never tried the demasting one but I could usually finish in the top 10 daily on sink 3 ships in a row, you just had to learn the trick with the AI and hoped they would do what you wanted. I would hardly call it skill once you knew how to do it, it was just luck to get the good time and the right ship setup.

I still say the exam defeats the idea that new players can quickly become useful after they have done the tutorial. If the idea was to weed out the new players that are not hardcore and get them to give up, then I think it is a success.

Even the way that you suggested it can be done is a bad way to teach people to play the game, it teaches people to kite and use multiple repairs, do you want PvP to become more like that with battles taking over an hour with kite and repair?

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1 hour ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

With the Cerbs I just sunk one then boarded the other.

i did it the other way around boarded the first and sank the second in the ai capped ship with 32 souls aboard me ship :)  PS it took forever ..

When i repaired the ai ship with 29 crew it went on a long long time maybe a bug?

You can straight out board 1v1 without raking  but take heavy losses and position the boarding so the second AI cerb is on the other side so can't shoot you it only hits AI.

Edited by Tac

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3 minutes ago, Tac said:

i did it the other way around boarded the first and sank the second in the ai capped ship with 32 souls aboard me ship :)  PS it took forever ..

When i repaired the ai ship with 29 crew it went on a long long time maybe a bug?

repair seems to stay active till the max percentage of the repair is achived. But with 32 guys its a long time. In one of my tries i manged that repairtime was almost equal with repair cd lol

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I have done final exam on second try by boarding both ships as soon as I could. Problem is that final exam is not teaching pvp but how to exploit AI. And it is too hard for new players. Last two exams (endurance and final) requires a lot of NA knowledge to be completed. Problem is that those knowledge is not obtained from previous tutorials/exams. Lots of things are not mentioned in tutorials that new guys need to know in order to finish exams. 

1. Boarding minigame is not explained at all

2. Preparation for boarding is poorly explained. "Press 9 to board" is not valid explanation and should be explained more about wait time and danger of being in boarding mode

3. Repairs are not explained at all

4. Chaining is poorly explained which is ironic considering that this patch was in part about chain rework

5. Demasting is poorly explained. There should be mention of different mast sections and their different thickness

6. Crew management is not explained at all

7. Using grape is poorly explained. There should be mention that grape is best used against stern of the ship and there should be mention about range and tactics of grape use

etc, etc...

In general tutorials/exams have completely skipped to teach tactics of PvP so in my opinion they are not valid as tool of teaching PvP and are more of challenge mode for PvE.

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Ok I been trying this all day and keep getting destroyed if I try boarding cause the defence mods on the AI are to strong.  I loose on a defence when they attack big time evne though we have equal or I have more crew.  Muskets do nothing hardly against a defence, same with grenades.  What the hell are you guys doing to win these boards to quick?   I know I"m not some elite player and call myself pretty much an average player, but I should be taking all day to do something that should be average players knowledge and skills. I mean i can kill three players in a PvP before of about the same range ships, but that is players.  I'm all ready frustrated and don't even want to try this again.   This should not be in the tutorial. I don't mind having an epic PvP Mission for rewards, but this shouldn't be for new players at all.

Feel like I wasted most my day cause of bad luck and apparently skill.  I had no problem doing the other parts and the endurance one, but this last part is freaking OP as hell.   

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Finally did it. But I played it very safe. I chained one and started to sail away. Then I started operation demast but because I was too scared to get too close to the first one following me I mostly was too far away to penetrate their masts :) . What I really learned again is that our cannons are too accurate - In the end I had about 230 mast hits. after I got the hang of the Cerb I managed to get 4 to 5 hits every broadside (from a rather long distance). So my main tactic was to destroy one mast while I kited them and then I reduced the distance to use single shot for the remaining masts. The next step was to grape the hulks down a bit and board them. I captured the second one with 10 min left on the clock. I used all repairs and a lot of rum, since you lose a lot of men to simple hull hits.

If you don't play it like a pussy as I did, you can surely demast them very quick in close quarters or even rake them repeatedly. But I just wanted to be sure to pass the exam.

My conclusion is somewhat similar to others. You don't really learn to fight but kiting and avoiding the enemy. I find this exam is more a pain in the ass and kinda annoying. In my first try I sunk while both of them were demasted but they still kind of covered each other. Bad for me and after one hour you not really want to do it again immediately.

I get it that to uphold the final exam character it has to be difficult but I don't know if this is the right way.

 

I noticed something during the endurance challenge: You get a tool tip that tells you about angling to avoid damage. I had the feeling that angling in this case, with brig vs brig often doesn't help. Maybe change the ships to the cerberus (player and AI) with better angling characteristics.

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The problem i see: the tutorial rewards are promoting alts. Doing the tutorial, get rewards, delete character and repeat is probably the best per hour income of the game. If i remeber right you get 1500 rig and hull repairs, 1 x rattlesnake notw, 1x hercules note, 1x naval clock. I guess of this rewards on the market will be around 10 mio, far more in the first time ... for about 2 hours (lesser with practice) of PVE ... It would be even a good method to get repairs to a far away harbor, i sailed often more hours to supply an outpost with (lesser) repairs and tutorial has no risk to lose sth.

I seriously suggest to make tutorial repeatable (incl. rewards) for everyone, reduce amount of repairs you get and reduce stats of naval clock to +2,5 % speed. This will also make it possible to get the attention of recruiting clans more than only one time (what if its 4 oclock in the morning if you pass the final exam and no clan in your time zone is online.).

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7 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

I had no problem with the tutorial and expect that people seem to be having problems because they're not firing single shot and not aiming.

The only thing I would change is the endurance test when that additional brig spawns after you defeat the first. Perhaps it should be stated at the beginning that you have to kill two, one after the other.

In the sailing exam you should definitely teach newbies how to tack through the wind.

I agree here first I thought I have to survive a certain amount of time until I tried to kill him.

(But yea I also don't like to read the texts on the right. Don't do tutorials normally)

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Minor item I didn't see mentioned before... the tutoral starts with a nice explanation of the terms port, starboard, bow and stern, but these aren't used in the game UI.  I hope this means that they will someday replace Left, Rigt, Front and Back.   I think that would be great!

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12 hours ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

If so it will need a few stat tweaks as it is the most powerful shallow draft ship right now.

Shhh!

12 hours ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

Listening to clan members struggle with the tutorial has given me great pleasure.

Same feeling here. Took me a while and granted was not the first in my clan but was not close to being the last so feel real proud about it now.

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8 hours ago, admin said:

The hidden goal of any endurance exam is this
Cut off players who dont fit. 

lwihzVd.jpg

We dont want all new players - we want the right players who will fit.

Remember we are not making games just for the money - here is a story about our "F*** you" to Apple Inc and money in general  -  described in USA Today - https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/06/25/apple-pulls-confederate-flag-games/29287163/    or polygon https://www.polygon.com/2015/6/25/8846695/apple-confederate-flag-civil-war/comment/313260912

The real goal of the tutorials to cut off whiners right from the start. Let them refund or do whatever. We want the right players in the game. Wrong players will just go refund after couple of attempts. 

I love you more and more everyday admin. You speak what comes from my mind daily

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