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Patch 23: Updated Tutorial, Special ship and new UI teaser.

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What's madness is that we still complain about ow pvpers ganking people at capitals but refuse to look at the issue that there IS NO REASON TO HUNT ANYWHERE BUT CAPITAL ZONES. THERE IS NO OW PVP FACILITATION WHATSOEVER. OF COURSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO WHERE THE MOST POPULATION IS, IT'S THE ONLY PLACE TO FIND PVP!

sheesh.

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3 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

What's madness is that we still complain about ow pvpers ganking people at capitals but refuse to look at the issue that there IS NO REASON TO HUNT ANYWHERE BUT CAPITAL ZONES. THERE IS NO OW PVP FACILITATION WHATSOEVER. OF COURSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO WHERE THE MOST POPULATION IS, IT'S THE ONLY PLACE TO FIND PVP!

sheesh.

All OW PvP'ers have to do is look at combat news and go find where other hunters are at, or announce in Global that they're undocking at La Tortue, and say, "Come get me suckers."  Or maybe try raising hostility a bit at a well known PvP'ing clan's port.. That will surely get action.

Instead, a large chunk of those "PvP-is-my-life" players won't admit that they don't really want "good" fights, they just want to sink some ships, the easier the better, and get some marks. Which is totally fine by me, but then they shouldn't be all hypocritical about it. They should just own being a safe zone camping noob hunter and accept the moniker of seal clubber.

That said, I'd love to see the dev's focus on player-generated content for increasing open world PvP opportunities (raids, blockades, escort, trade, pvp missions, etc., instead of twiddling needlessly on four different types of currency, mints, and the combat model.

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1 minute ago, Wraith said:

All OW PvP'ers have to do is look at combat news and go find where other hunters are at, or announce in Global that they're undocking at La Tortue, and say, "Come get me suckers."  Or maybe try raising hostility a bit at a well known PvP'ing clan's port.. That will surely get action.

Instead, a large chunk of those "PvP-is-my-life" players won't admit that they don't really want "good" fights, they just want to sink some ships, the easier the better, and get some marks. Which is totally fine by me, but then they shouldn't be all hypocritical about it. They should just own being a safe zone camping noob hunter and accept the moniker of seal clubber.

That said, I'd love to see the dev's focus on player-generated content for increasing open world PvP opportunities (raids, blockades, escort, trade, pvp missions, etc., instead of twiddling needlessly on four different types of currency, mints, and the combat model.

giphy.gif.7466ea277c1c08357dd97bf6e80b1649.gif

If they really wanted good fights, they wouldn't have joined the same nation? 

 

**cough Prussia cough**

Edited by Cornelius Trash
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33 minutes ago, Wraith said:

All OW PvP'ers have to do is look at combat news and go find where other hunters are at, or announce in Global that they're undocking at La Tortue, and say, "Come get me suckers."  Or maybe try raising hostility a bit at a well known PvP'ing clan's port.. That will surely get action.

Instead, a large chunk of those "PvP-is-my-life" players won't admit that they don't really want "good" fights, they just want to sink some ships, the easier the better, and get some marks. Which is totally fine by me, but then they shouldn't be all hypocritical about it. They should just own being a safe zone camping noob hunter and accept the moniker of seal clubber.

That said, I'd love to see the dev's focus on player-generated content for increasing open world PvP opportunities (raids, blockades, escort, trade, pvp missions, etc., instead of twiddling needlessly on four different types of currency, mints, and the combat model.

I agree I mean I tried really hard to get pvp a couple times in recent weeks, but between 8 and 11 east coast time nobody wants to play. I announced 20 mins prior I would be leaving for the zone, said where I was in the zone, even what part of the zone. I told people I was alone in an aggie, noboy showed. They were ALL stuck in someone else's PVE mission, its madness.

I'm not even like a famous PVPer or anything, I haven't sailed in a 1st rate in PVP combat since sea trials (so half of what I know will actually hurt me)

Its madness. I'd get slaughtered and they still didn't want to take me on in the pvp zone.

And the worst part is, because the only goal is "sink enemy players" I got almost nothing from this entire experience. Zilch. A few days ago I finally found a battle while goofing around in my yacht and did 7.3k damage on a niagara so that was really fun, but didn't make up for the 5 hours i've spent looking for PVP in the zones.

 

Also that last paragraph 150% I completely agree.

When  log off this game, most of my frustration from the day isn't from some unfair mechanic IN COMBAT its from not having much to do that guarantees at least SOMETHING happening. I don't care if I get sunk, i'm sailing on an essex most of the time its a very cheap ship! but I do care if I sail for an hour and the only thing I see is a fir fir ship that runs away.

Edited by Capt Aerobane
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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

All OW PvP'ers have to do is look at combat news and go find where other hunters are at, or announce in Global that they're undocking at La Tortue, and say, "Come get me suckers."  Or maybe try raising hostility a bit at a well known PvP'ing clan's port.. That will surely get action.

Seems like you never tried that, you only very rarley find someone this way to fight you. Dont ask me why but it is how it is.

Hostility is cancer so no clue about that one...

10 hours ago, Headless Parrot said:

Huge learning curve

Long grind for rank

Long grind for craft level

Long grind for every ship knowledge

Gee....I wonder why I cant get my friends to play this.....

Some days ago my friends noticed that I have 1.5k hours in naval action and they asked me about the game. I told them: The best community ive ever yeen in a game and a nice combat model where you can outplay your opponents. When you kill someone you can loot their stuff or capture their ships. Realistic Carribean map with different factions. Trading between ports. Sadly economy is completely broken and its hard to find fights. And if you find them its unbalanced most of the time. And also you have to grind a lot, it almost feels like a free2play game just without the option to pay to skip the grind.

I know they are not the kind of guys who would grind 50 hours just to get started, but still their answer nailed it.

"Sounds like a game with huge potential."

Potential and a great community is all this game has sadly.

And to be clear I dont want to blame devs for this, I just think the project is way too big for 2 programmers and the servers are just too shitty (everything just works via daily mantanance) to enable a good working  and fun economy.

Edited by Jon Snow lets go
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20 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

The average OW player sadly...

And then comes back with 5 mates to gank the living daylights out of you.

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Here's little things I have issues with while going through the tutorial:

  • The text box is underneath the report button on my screen which looks bad.
  • Demasting is tricky since the guns aren't very accurate. The ship you're shooting in the gunnery tutorial should be angled so the masts appear closer together.
  • The different types of guns at least need to be mentioned in the gunnery tutorial
  • The player should be instructed to go to dead slow, and slowly make their way to full sail throughout the sailing tutorial to let the player learn that there is more than just sitting still and hauling ass.
  • After the wind turned perpendicular to my ship in the special maneuvers tutorial and I was instructed to go to full sail, it wouldn't allow me to go beyond half sails for about a minute. 
  • In special maneuvers the player should have to sail in a complete circle, including tacking through the wind, to allow them to have a true understanding of how to handle the ship at any wind angle. You know noobs will still get stuck in the wind regardless of the tutorial as it is.
  • Instructing players to press one button after another is one thing, but for some it's a better learning experience to figure it out on their own, so giving the player free reign of the ship to sail it as they please might better help them understand. So perhaps after they sail in a circle and stop in the objective, let them do what they want and end the tutorial when they're ready to leave.
  • The ship you're shooting in pursuit and capture doesn't get many holes in the sails as you chain it. That should really be a thing.
  • More time should be given for the demasting exam. Shooting a thin target from a fast moving platform with an inaccurate gun takes getting used to. Some new players are sure to struggle with it.
  • The endurance exam should have been against 2 rookie brigs because the normal brigs seemed to rip through my hull a lot more than it should. At one point I had to sail away for 30 minutes to let myself repair before I could keep fighting. I know that kinda defeats the purpose of an endurance exam but lots of new players may not understand the hint of bouncing shots at certain angles. They'll just see the enemy and think that they should go shoot at it exactly like they did in previous fights.
  • The exams in general got pretty boring since it has only brigs. The player should be given a different 6th rate for each one just to spice it up a bit

But overall, it's still pretty nice. The rewards are great too.

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18 hours ago, admin said:

Tutorial. UI. Localization is the main priority right now. You can expect this first. 

Need help with polish localization?

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7 hours ago, Cornelius Trash said:

giphy.gif.7466ea277c1c08357dd97bf6e80b1649.gif

If they really wanted good fights, they wouldn't have joined the same nation? 

 

**cough Prussia cough**

As if the game has enough content to take pvp out of capitals and into other nation's players.

 

Edited by Slim McSauce

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It wasn't a good start when I failed the "look left" and "look right" exam. It just got worse and reached a low point in the endurance exam. First time it was looking good but when I went to loot the first ship the "horrible prick" flash boarded me. Second and third attempt I got creamed by the second vessel because I could not loot the first ship. Fourth attempt I was looking good having looted the first ship but the internet crashed.. The last attempt was a repeat of 2 and 3. I now feel like a failure, and have turned to drinking methylated spirit. Wife has left me because I sit in the corner weeping all day. But seriously, if the idea of the tutorial is to encourage/train new players is it necessary to crush and humiliate them? They will get plenty of that in OW later without the AI beating the crap out of them.

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A bit offtopic, but in the vein of "practice makes perfect" types of game, not unlike NA or other similar examples given by @admin, regarding tutorials or welcoming the player into a game where there's no aim-click-kill mechanics, but rather a very complex combat enfironment, whether the player is aware or not.

This screen appears "one time and one time only" in a game where constant practice is a must. It has no "one way to do things" but a dynamic approach to combat, where a lot can happen and no combat will ever be the same. 

Somehow something like this could be added to NA.

1496231064900.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

 

Nobody will read. Only experience will teach and the tutorial, exams and especially the final one are a good way to show that. "Better be ready stay or leave now"

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Just now, z4ys said:

Nobody will read. 

Sadly true. Just look how many players complain in chats how they cant skip the tutorial without never ever being able to do it again...

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10 hours ago, Cornelius Trash said:

If they really wanted good fights, they wouldn't have joined the same nation?

Sure Prussia has good players, but are we pretending other factions don't?

Should I start a list of players I've seen fight who are in other nations? (There are many good players I'm not yet aware of.)

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ok I've been playing this game for about three wks now, I like it a lot and think it has great potential, I like pvp but I also like the trading element too, though trading is very difficult when constantly getting ganked , wouldn't mind loosing a ship or two but atm seems if you're fleet gets caught you'll loose the lot even if you escape leaving your fleet behind, would like to see a scupper option for traders that pops up if you find yourself vastly outnumbered as it may discourage 3-4+ players taking all and allow solo pvp'rs to take a ship get their reward whilst you make your escape with what's left, now about the tutorial overall yes it's quite good, had a little struggle with the demasting but succeeded on second try, the endurance I managed to complete on my third attempt, however the final exam is so ridiculously hard, extreamely annoying and is very close to putting me off the game completely it's no fun at all, and I've tried several different tactics/strategies and keep trying all to no avail, I thought this was a tutorial not a world championship final.

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1 hour ago, jodgi said:

Sure Prussia has good players, but are we pretending other factions don't?

Should I start a list of players I've seen fight who are in other nations? (There are many good players I'm not yet aware of.)

But ... you are a noob anyways  :rolleyes: (of course you are not, but you are one of the few PVP really skilled players - so not a ganker pretending being a PVP god - that on this forum are disposed to maker reasoned discussions about how to make game enjoyable for ALL kind of players).

Edited by victor

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13 hours ago, Wraith said:

Don't forget, we really don't care about those noobs anyway. "Git gud or refund" is the mantra now: 

 

The funny thing is you can't get a refund after you get that far into the game, only like the first 1 or 2 can you still get one and I haven't even scratched the surface of a game in 1-2 hours.

12 hours ago, Wraith said:

All OW PvP'ers have to do is look at combat news and go find where other hunters are at, or announce in Global that they're undocking at La Tortue, and say, "Come get me suckers."  Or maybe try raising hostility a bit at a well known PvP'ing clan's port.. That will surely get action.

Instead, a large chunk of those "PvP-is-my-life" players won't admit that they don't really want "good" fights, they just want to sink some ships, the easier the better, and get some marks. Which is totally fine by me, but then they shouldn't be all hypocritical about it. They should just own being a safe zone camping noob hunter and accept the moniker of seal clubber.

That said, I'd love to see the dev's focus on player-generated content for increasing open world PvP opportunities (raids, blockades, escort, trade, pvp missions, etc., instead of twiddling needlessly on four different types of currency, mints, and the combat model.

I think ti's funny one of the biggest RvR force in US player prime time complains about not getting RvR and PvP, but they keep moving there port timers later and later into the night.  Like who the hell is going ot stay up to midnight to 3am (CST) to flip a port and do the port battle?  It was bad enough when the timers where set to 9/10pm - 12-1am.   You think they are doing it more to avoid PB's cause it seems they been all over the map lately at all types of times.   What it means to me is they only want those ports to farm the crap out of US player base not to get good Port battles.  Next they are going to piss off enough folks and we are all going to another octoflip on a clan.   That was fun after all....

12 hours ago, Cornelius Trash said:

giphy.gif.7466ea277c1c08357dd97bf6e80b1649.gif

If they really wanted good fights, they wouldn't have joined the same nation? 

 

**cough Prussia cough**

But they would have to kill AI to fight each other if they are in diffrent country's.  Cause how else would they let some one know they want to fight other than doing agro at a port to get folks to come out?  Not like it's hard to kill one or two AI and get that 25% with a group.  TO me sounds more like some folks are lazy and only want the action deliever to them.

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I can't understand everyone thinking that anyone who tries to get players out of the safe zone (give more reasons to leave it, more benefits) wants to gank and seal club... That is so naive and narrow-minded thinking. I spend the vast majority outside the safe zones, I do my all trading outside the safe zones, all my missions and PvE (yes, I'm a carebear and trader when no one is watching me). I don't really get any benefits of doing that and I'm putting myself at great risk, much higher than risk-free players inside the safe zones. I don't want safe zones to become an easy gankfest and seal clubbing zone, but I want players that like risk to have opportunity for much higher benefits by doing so. 

Let's stop with all the stupid "PvP crowd", "gankers", "seal clubbers" way of insulting people and flaming. PvP player starts to sound like an insult slowly... 

Positives of giving more reasons to leave the safe zones:

1) Opportunities for much higher benefits (that come at risk of course, higher risk = more benefits).

2) Population more equally spread all over the map, instead of concentrated only around capitals and free ports. 

3) More PvP opportunities all over the map (that would encourage to stop capital and free ports camping/ganking). 

4) More realistic game model. Currently the vast majority of map is filled with empty and useless ports and NPC fleets creating "fake crowd & traffic" effect. 

These changes require a massive economic overhaul and a lot of thinking.

About the already boring "Prussians" stereotype, yea we are all gankers, seal clubbers and we want easy kills... and of course we never fight good players, because we're scared. I'm all for good fights, all whining veterans I would like to ask to bring their best 3-men team and fight us 3v3. Terms can be negotiated. Let's make a good fight instead of ganking and whining :)

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Tutorial feedback:

Difficulty is ok for PvE players, maybe a bit hard for new players but a good place to practice then. Good as a final exam tutorial difficulty. You have to learn basics to pass it.

There could be more of these but named as "Challenges". Then Cerberus vs Bellona, etc. Easy to make content.

 

Final Exam notes:

You gave here an example how to win the Final Exam. Maybe after player losses the first fight there could be hints how to win it, give tactical advices.

Boarding is too easy. Consider giving defender perk for all players and AI? Decrease the speed limit for boarding? Increase boarding round time, it is too fast now.

Chain needs more testing. It can be that we simply move slower in our future fights. Probably not good for our gank based PvP.

Demasting is average skill level way to win the final exam.

Going in fighting both at the same time by hull bashing is probably the most difficult way to win.

If bots were repairing like players this would clearly show the issues that we have in PvP. Most common PvP scenario in game is to gank or get ganked.

Thickness was not high enough and too much repairing. Decrease cannon damage, increase repair kit cooldown and increase thickness.  Repairing is boring and makes battles simply last longer. Actively angling your ship is much more fun. If I could win this with less repairs and more angling, I would be constantly active in combat. Repair kits create a boring time sink, has no purpose.

Make boarding to be more difficult, on the same level as demasting. Make hull bashing easier to bring on the same level with demasting.

If tutorial gave you hard time but you finished it, you learned really good amount of basics of NA.  In the end wont make you better PvP player as PvP is so different. For example bots should actively repair and force you to nuke one out.

@admin Should make himself a small test scenario.  Remove all repairs from the Final Exam and fight those 2 at the same time. Modify battle variables so that you win by skill. Once you win the battle we are 100 steps closer to good PvP game. If you really want to keep s loads of repairs in this game, make the bots to repair and win it 1vs2 so that you are constantly fighting with them.

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6 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Tutorial feedback:

Difficulty is ok for PvE players, maybe a bit hard for new players but a good place to practice then. Good as a final exam tutorial difficulty. You have to learn basics to pass it.

There could be more of these but named as "Challenges". Then Cerberus vs Bellona, etc. Easy to make content.

 

Final Exam notes:

You gave here an example how to win the Final Exam. Maybe after player losses the first fight there could be hints how to win it, give tactical advices.

Boarding is too easy. Consider giving defender perk for all players and AI? Decrease the speed limit for boarding? Increase boarding round time, it is too fast now.

Chain needs more testing. It can be that we simply move slower in our future fights. Probably not good for our gank based PvP.

Demasting is average skill level way to win the final exam.

Going in fighting both at the same time by hull bashing is probably the most difficult way to win.

If bots were repairing like players this would clearly show the issues that we have in PvP. Most common PvP scenario in game is to gank or get ganked.

Thickness was not high enough and too much repairing. Decrease cannon damage, increase repair kit cooldown and increase thickness.  Repairing is boring and makes battles simply last longer. Actively angling your ship is much more fun. If I could win this with less repairs and more angling, I would be constantly active in combat. Repair kits create a boring time sink, has no purpose.

Make boarding to be more difficult, on the same level as demasting. Make hull bashing easier to bring on the same level with demasting.

If tutorial gave you hard time but you finished it, you learned really good amount of basics of NA.  In the end wont make you better PvP player as PvP is so different. For example bots should actively repair and force you to nuke one out.

@admin Should make himself a small test scenario.  Remove all repairs from the Final Exam and fight those 2 at the same time. Modify battle variables so that you win by skill. Once you win the battle we are 100 steps closer to good PvP game. If you really want to keep s loads of repairs in this game, make the bots to repair and win it 1vs2 so that you are constantly fighting with them.

I feel that these exams rely on a lot of luck to pass.

On the final exam I hit masts on a ship up close 49 times and not one demast. I watched most of the balls squarely hit the mast from close range.

 

Next attempt I manages to take 2 masts down on one and it still managed to be able to spin on the spot to shoot you, much too quickly for a 3-mast ship with only 1 mast left.

 

The other ship with one mast down was sill able to turn and move very quickly.

If you are lucky with RNG and manage to demast early on without too much damage to yourself then fine.

 

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18 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

I can't understand everyone thinking that anyone who tries to get players out of the safe zone (give more reasons to leave it, more benefits) wants to gank and seal club... That is so naive and narrow-minded thinking. I spend the vast majority outside the safe zones, I do my all trading outside the safe zones, all my missions and PvE (yes, I'm a carebear and trader when no one is watching me). I don't really get any benefits of doing that and I'm putting myself at great risk, much higher than risk-free players inside the safe zones. I don't want safe zones to become an easy gankfest and seal clubbing zone, but I want players that like risk to have opportunity for much higher benefits by doing so. 

Let's stop with all the stupid "PvP crowd", "gankers", "seal clubbers" way of insulting people and flaming. PvP player starts to sound like an insult slowly... 

Positives of giving more reasons to leave the safe zones:

1) Opportunities for much higher benefits (that come at risk of course, higher risk = more benefits).

2) Population more equally spread all over the map, instead of concentrated only around capitals and free ports. 

3) More PvP opportunities all over the map (that would encourage to stop capital and free ports camping/ganking). 

4) More realistic game model. Currently the vast majority of map is filled with empty and useless ports and NPC fleets creating "fake crowd & traffic" effect. 

These changes require a massive economic overhaul and a lot of thinking.

About the already boring "Prussians" stereotype, yea we are all gankers, seal clubbers and we want easy kills... and of course we never fight good players, because we're scared. I'm all for good fights, all whining veterans I would like to ask to bring their best 3-men team and fight us 3v3. Terms can be negotiated. Let's make a good fight instead of ganking and whining :)

Nothing wrong with getting folks incentives to leave the safe zones, but you shouldn't force them out either.  If some one doesn't want to leave them than they won't be a good fight any way.  The problem comes when certain groups won't even try to go get PvP from other PvPers and only hunts those zones for easy kills.  

Patrol Zones are intersting concept but they still have way to many ROE issues.  I actualy think they should let the PvE/Casuals do there thing and than if they want to come out and PvP they will.  You might actually get more of them to do so cause they will do it more on there terms.

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17 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

That is so naive and narrow-minded thinking. I spend the vast majority outside the safe zones, I do my all trading outside the safe zones, all my missions and PvE (yes, I'm a carebear and trader when no one is watching me).

I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that PvP-oriented players should be encouraging players to leave the safe zone and doing their fighting outside that zone.

Instead we have some b.s. "safe" zone mechanics that allows the sharks to circle the cage and reach in and pluck out some unsuspecting newb almost at will. Those players that engage in this behavior claim that this is the only way to find a fight but that's just trash and plenty of fights can be had if they wanted to find them, only it might be more risky than the seal clubbing.

That was my point. Encouraging people to leave the safe zone and engage in risky PvP consensually should be a huge priority. The fact that the majority of PvPers are solely focusing on finding nonconsensual PvP is a problem for player retention because it's unsustainable. We need mechanisms to encourage consensual PvP in the same way we need players to have incentives to leave the safe zone. The events zone and PvP marks are a lazy way to do this and breeds terrible behavior. We need better solutions because the sharks are back at the cage and pretty soon there will be no one left to eat.

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On 4/19/2018 at 1:07 PM, admin said:

Patrols

  • Frigate ONLY patrols added to the rotation

Is it mentiont somewhere when the patrol is for Frigates only?

just spend 2h patroling near La Mona and no fight countet so far (im in a Bucentaure).

And also before the patch if i attacked a fleet, i only had to fight the Leadship, today allways the whole fleet.

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