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Percival Merewether

Boarding + 'Determined Defender' suggestion

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DD consumes a slot of the skill points. If you want it you have to sacrifice something also good like hold optimizaton, fleet perk, trimming... I agree that the rigging specialist nerf was too much so no one uses it now.

Edited by Intrepido
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6 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

DD consumes a slot of the skill points. If you want it to hayve to sacrifice something also good like hold optimizaton, fleet perk, trimming... I agree that the rigging specialist nerf was too much so noone uses it now.

trimming???

I accept hold opt and fleet but actually you can take both.

Expert carp, double ball, dd, hold opt, fleet I

The only thing you lack here is prepared. Nothing else is compareable in value

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4 minutes ago, rediii said:

trimming???

I accept hold opt and fleet but actually you can take both.

Expert carp, double ball, dd, hold opt, fleet I

The only thing you lack here is prepared. Nothing else is compareable in value

Trimming has its value with some ships that are easy to get leaks.

Also for shallow water ships it provides a less vulnerable ship to the waves.

Edited by Intrepido

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29 minutes ago, rediii said:

The only thing you lack here is prepared. Nothing else is compareable in value

Getting off topic... but Prepared should not be a perk imo. I currently don't use it and get by just fine, but it never made sense why it was a perk in the first place. Shouldn't all battles start with cannons loaded? 

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3 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

Getting off topic... but Prepared should not be a perk imo. I currently don't use it and get by just fine, but it never made sense why it was a perk in the first place. Shouldn't all battles start with cannons loaded? 

Its a nice perk I understand why it is a perk and not standard

(can make a huge difference btw, a free chain or double broadside at the beginning with a good tag)

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3 minutes ago, rediii said:

Its a nice perk I understand why it is a perk and not standard

(can make a huge difference btw, a free chain or double broadside at the beginning with a good tag)

Yes. Hence why we moved from "always prepared" in the past to a player choice in the present.

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You made it next to enemy ship which took lots of time in reality and you forgat to load your cannons? 

For me it is stupid to have prepared as a perk, should be default. 

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2 hours ago, Rebrall said:

Its still possible to board players even in fair fights which very rarely happen in NA,

 

That’s cool maybe he doesn’t want to be a boarding player? 

Maybe we don’t need to change the game to suit boarders maybe you need to change the way you achieve your goal of boarding ?

 

is it really that hard to chain a player and stern camp them let’s be real here most of you sail specific hunting ships, also you could drop there hull to 30% and grape them, if you have a taller ship you can use your top guns and fire straight into there deck, 

 

there are are ways to achieve your goals and I know most of you are very capable of doing this maybe your all being a little lazy tbh

 

also reading combat log boarding still happens a lot 

This.giphy.gif.7466ea277c1c08357dd97bf6e80b1649.gif

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Pull a statistic about playerkills and deaths in 1 month (K/D)

take top 100 

Look at officerskills used

 

place 1 will be expert carpenter and double ball, after that I think it will be D D. Then prepared and hold opt. Maybe even Charge

(ignoring fleet 1)

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Lets put some numbers here.

2 trincs duel it out - one would like to board, the other does not want to.

At some point in the battle they both lose crew, trinc A has 300 and trinc B has 250. Trinc B has DD

In order for trinc A to board trinc B, he needs a 30% crew advantage which is already insanity. Trinc A needs 325 to board a trinc that has 250 crew, or decrew the enemy down further. So he goes to decrew the enemy. 

Trinc B seeing the signs of boarding just needs to hit the rum action and....hooray everything trinc A did to attempt a boarding is now ruined and has to start over again.

Look, if we didn't have a crew repair action in battle I wouldn't be complaining about 30%. But since we need a 30% advantage AND THEN to make sure the enemy doesn't use rum...

No sorry - DD with a rum action is utterly broken and DD needs to be reduced.

Edited by Teutonic
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1 minute ago, Teutonic said:

Lets put some numbers here.

2 trincs duel it out - one would like to board, the other does not want to.

At some point in the battle they both lose crew, trinc A has 300 and trinc B has 250. Trinc B has DD

In order for trinc A to board trinc B, he needs a 30% crew advantage which is already insanity. Trinc A needs 325 to board a trinc that has 250 crew, or decrew the enemy down further. So he goes to decrew the enemy. 

Trinc B seeing the signs of boarding just meeds to hit the rum action and....hooray everything trinc A did to attemot a boarding is now ruined and has to start over again.

Look, of we didn't have a crew repair action in battle I wouldn't be complaining about 30%. But since we need a 30% advantage AND THEN to make sure the enemy doesn't use rum...

No sorry - DD with a rum action is utterly broken and DD needs to be reduced.

That's more an argument over rum which has been criticised constantly. 

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7 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

Lets put some numbers here.

2 trincs duel it out - one would like to board, the other does not want to.

At some point in the battle they both lose crew, trinc A has 300 and trinc B has 250. Trinc B has DD

In order for trinc A to board trinc B, he needs a 30% crew advantage which is already insanity. Trinc A needs 325 to board a trinc that has 250 crew, or decrew the enemy down further. So he goes to decrew the enemy. 

Trinc B seeing the signs of boarding just needs to hit the rum action and....hooray everything trinc A did to attempt a boarding is now ruined and has to start over again.

Look, if we didn't have a crew repair action in battle I wouldn't be complaining about 30%. But since we need a 30% advantage AND THEN to make sure the enemy doesn't use rum...

No sorry - DD with a rum action is utterly broken and DD needs to be reduced.

This captain didnt adapt his tactic along the duration of the combat and deserves to sink.

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Rum is fine atm as it is. You get crew back very slowly

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5 hours ago, Cornelius Trash said:

I also want to bet that all asking for DD nerf have the book of 5 rings already...

Stop making people play your way and let others play their way!

Boarding meta is boring and requires no skill.

If you actually spent time playing NA you could have the book of 5 rings also.  It's not difficult to get the books if you actually invest the time OR money.  An absurdly imbalanced perk should not exist simply because people have special boarding books.  Invest the time to get them.  For the greater part of a year DD wasn't a thing.  Why exactly do we need it?

Stop making people play your way and let others play their way!

And only people who don't know how to board and/or don't play the game think that boarding requires zero skill.  

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5 minutes ago, Christendom said:

If you actually spent time playing NA you could have the book of 5 rings also.  It's not difficult to get the books if you actually invest the time OR money.  An absurdly imbalanced perk should not exist simply because people have special boarding books.  Invest the time to get them.  For the greater part of a year DD wasn't a thing.  Why exactly do we need it?

Stop making people play your way and let others play their way!

And only people who don't know how to board and/or don't play the game think that boarding requires zero skill.  

This perk exists not because of the book - book is great, rare, but not impossibly rare and shows results. Rageboarding is fine too. 

I just hate this: 
A light ship "olololo boarding" a heavy vessel just to take it out from battle while his 2 friends iron out the stern with grape. Just because.. mechanics.

In future games there will be officer assigned to divisions and guns which will fire guns while you lead the boarding, cut ropes etc..
But in NA the boarding works this way and a cutter can take out a first rate from combat for at least 2-3 mins just …because he was able to press G

 

 

In the past we often forgot about players who love the feature and only listened to negative voices. This was a mistake. 
We know a lot of players hate DD. We know a lot of players love DD and are not going to remove it. We will only tweak it if necessary. 
 

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4 minutes ago, Christendom said:

 

And only people who don't know how to board and/or don't play the game think that boarding requires zero skill.  

 

Push a ship against the wind is not hard.

A rock-paper-scissors minigame doesnt require much to learn. You can see lots of streamings and most hardcore pvp players do always the same tricks (players that usually are in the leaderboard).

Sailing, proper aiming and sniping, manuevering, avoiding damage to sail and hull... thats where the learning curve of NA is in.

Didnt you see the old streamings of captain reverse? The guy was always boarding first rates in his boarding fitted surprise, he did that without almost no effort, because it was so ridiculously easy.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

This perk exists not because of the book - book is great, rare, but not impossibly rare and shows results. Rageboarding is fine too. 

I just hate this: 
A light ship "olololo boarding" a heavy vessel just to take it out from battle while his 2 friends iron out the stern with grape. Just because.. mechanics.

In future games there will be officer assigned to divisions and guns which will fire guns while you lead the boarding, cut ropes etc..
But in NA the boarding works this way and a cutter can take out a first rate from combat for at least 2-3 mins just …because he was able to press G

 

 

In the past we often forgot about players who love the feature and only listened to negative voices. This was a mistake. 
We know a lot of players hate DD. We know a lot of players love DD and are not going to remove it. We will only tweak it if necessary. 
 

You are my hero.

 

Edited by Cornelius Trash

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4 hours ago, admin said:

This perk exists not because of the book - book is great, rare, but not impossibly rare and shows results. Rageboarding is fine too. 

I just hate this: 
A light ship "olololo boarding" a heavy vessel just to take it out from battle while his 2 friends iron out the stern with grape. Just because.. mechanics.

In future games there will be officer assigned to divisions and guns which will fire guns while you lead the boarding, cut ropes etc..
But in NA the boarding works this way and a cutter can take out a first rate from combat for at least 2-3 mins just …because he was able to press G

 

 

In the past we often forgot about players who love the feature and only listened to negative voices. This was a mistake. 
We know a lot of players hate DD. We know a lot of players love DD and are not going to remove it. We will only tweak it if necessary. 
 

Well it's understandable thinking a cutter can just rage board a frigate, but the issue folks are having isn't when it's a large crew diffrence, it's when your almost the same crew are very close to them or more.  That is why many folks are asking to drop the 30% down cause it means you have to have equal or more (30% more) to even try to board some one, this stops the small ship rage boarding, but it also stops the big ship from boarding mos small ships.

4 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Push a ship against the wind is not hard.

A rock-paper-scissors minigame doesnt require much to learn. You can see lots of streamings and most hardcore pvp players do always the same tricks (players that usually are in the leaderboard).

Sailing, proper aiming and sniping, manuevering, avoiding damage to sail and hull... thats where the learning curve of NA is in.

Didnt you see the old streamings of captain reverse? The guy was always boarding first rates in his boarding fitted surprise, he did that without almost no effort, because it was so ridiculously easy.

Just shooting at each other hull doesn't take much skill either, but all those things you mention are included into boarding too.  You don't just instantly push some one into irons unless they have no clue what they are doing.  It's actually very hard to do with some ships if they are larger than you and depending the wood type too of each ships.  Again your talking about a smaller ships which DD with no percentage but only having equal crew would do that, but you having to have 30% more crew means you have to have an Exxes or higher to auto board that Surprise and good luck with anything bigger without taking the crew down. 

So lets take a look at some ships if we where to attack players with DD.

Prince/H Rattler with 130 crew can board any thing 91 crew or less

Reno/Surpirse with 240 crew can board any thing 168 crew or less

Endy/Trinc with 340/350 crew can board any thing 245 crew or less 

Aggy with 500 crew can board anything with 350 crew or less

3rd/Bellona with 650 crew can board anything with 455 crew or less

Buc/Vict 800/840 crew can board anything with 588 crew or less

L'Ocean with 1100 crew can board anything with 770 crew or less

By the looks of these numbers and I tried to skip to the middle of each tier of ships pretty much you can in the smaller ships board some one with DD that is one tier below you.  I get that and I actually have no problem with DD as is other there is no negative and it's a bit two strong as a 2 point perk.  If you limit it to only effect when you have boarding prep up that means it's not effective 100% of the time and you have to turn it on.  That seems more fair in game play that your prepared for the board so your going to resist it.  If your not prepared than you should not have an "AUTO I DENIE YOU" just cause you have a 2 point perk.  No other perks gives you an auto win/roll option against something in game.  Even the books of 5 rings isn't an auto win.  

Oh speaking of folks saying it's OP, I beat guys with 5 rings with nothing but barricades (yes this was before the attack was nerfed) and they had marines too. It's all about having your preparation ready and being able to do things.  The guy didn't have his prep up, was in an Aggy with Marines and I was in an Aggy and was 100-200 less crew cause he had hammocks.  That book didn't mean nothing when you don't have preparation ready and some one else did.  I was running only barricades and Muskets.  I quickly destroyed his moral and got his crew down less to mine and it was over quickly.  That book isn't a win all option if your not ready or even more have a clue what to do in boarding.   9 times out of 10 the reason some one gets beat in a board is cause they had zero preparation ready not cause of the skills or books, they just help.  Sorry if you see some one coming at you and getting ready to push you into irons.   TURN YOUR PREPARATION ON.   That is why I bet half you guys are loosing boards to ragers is you don't turn it one, get boarded and have zero preparation and get curb stomped by guys that might not even have the book of 5 rings.....oh and yes I do have the book.  I only run it on my pure board builds not my defense builds or on my 1st rates I run Barricades and 5 rings for defense only or for when I catch some one stuck in a battle in irons and easy pickings.  Other wise boarding is to much a risk with the crew loast (since rum changes) that I don't want to come out limping out of the battle half crewed.  Also if you get boarded and they have friends, your prob screwed no matter what mods they have.   That is why I been running a lot of fights with barricades, Muskets and ax's not to attack, but to defend an attack and get your moral and crew down for the actual boarder or the guys to sink you.  I don't need 5 rings to do that when most folks don't have board mods or they never turn there preparation on.

 

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5 hours ago, admin said:

I just hate this: 
A light ship "olololo boarding" a heavy vessel just to take it out from battle while his 2 friends iron out the stern with grape. Just because.. mechanics.

In future games there will be officer assigned to divisions and guns which will fire guns while you lead the boarding, cut ropes etc..
But in NA the boarding works this way and a cutter can take out a first rate from combat for at least 2-3 mins just …because he was able to press G

 

 

In the past we often forgot about players who love the feature and only listened to negative voices. This was a mistake. 
We know a lot of players hate DD. We know a lot of players love DD and are not going to remove it. We will only tweak it if necessary. 

I agree completely.

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So my view of the determined defender perk:

Pros:
-No more rage boarding.
No more of that i'm just gonna go in a straight into them and board the first fucker I stop.

-Tiny ships struggle to board big ones
No more 6th rates boarding 3rd rates in packs with ease.


Cons:
-No more rage boarding. (jokes)


-Removed skill from avoiding boarding.
This is the big one for me. Before you could punish players who made mistakes while attempting to avoid you by boarding them. In current meta this is typically impossible and as the mistake making player its removed that oh shit I just made a mistake factor. Now you can quiet happily turn up into the wind tack around and bugger off without blinking a eye or having to think about what your doing. For me its made the game lose depth.  


-Hard limits
Hard limits in games are rubbish but as it stands the current perk has made all competitive players pick it. You just don't go out and fight PVP without it simple and that sucks. diversity should be the aim of the game with perks and DD's current form doesn't make the combat styles diverse at all. 




From what I can tell here theres 3 major possible tweaks to make DD more balanced:

1:Tweak the numbers:
As redii said 30% is to high. This would be the quickest fix but I don't think it would be the best fix. It would mitigate the problem and make DD less effective but im certain people would still fly around with it as a must have even at 10%.

2:Make it Prep Based:
For me this would be the most appropriate fix as I've suggested before. Adding the requirement of prep for DD to take effect would add that missing depth back to the current anti boarding meta. Now captains would have to think ahead before throwing that tack in ahead of your enemy. Players who make mistakes would be punished and would be forced to get better and not just sail around immune to boarding until arbitrary number is reached.

The scenario i'm thinking of here is player A is running from B and decides to tack to keep wind advantage. Player B prepares to cut inside player A's tack and attempt to board them. Unfortunately for player A they forgot to apply boarding prep before there tack and therefore have left themselves unprepared for player B's aggressive move. Player A preps boarding but its to late and they are grappled.


3:Make it moral based:
This was my other suggestion and I've bought it up many times. Although i'd love to see a entire overhaul of the current moral meta as everyone knows the plight of getting men to fight is keeping there moral high but I expect this would require the most work for the devs. The idea behind this being that all actions within combat should affect moral and allow for more depth during action as to what players can do to defeat there enemy. With the idea this game should be focused on decisive actions winning a battle moral should be a higher priority than it currently is.

I'll find the original post I made on it as soon as I get a sec and edit this post.

PS:

 

Edited by Capt Jubal Early

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I want to make a judgment regarding determined defend perk
Sincerely for me, and I think for many others palyers in this game, it is honestly bad for the game.
Since its appearance many people have taken refuge in the perk to avoid being boarded even in ships of the same class and same crew, making it almost impossible to board.
has removed from the game an important and fun part which was to navigate in small boats and board a larger crew and define de battle in a face to face combat ... now by magic you cant get on the enemy ship because they have this magic perk and that only breaks when you have 30% difference between crew ... if we add to this that we have a limitation in the chain shots, basically this perk is destroying the boarding, you cant stop a large ship due to its inertia , which is correct, nor a small one but with few chain shots and the amount of sail repairs you can have.
If the answer is demast, try to destroy the masts of a constitution with a 6th class ship.
honestly and for the good of the game I think it should be removed or add something to compensate such as "determined attacker" or instead of being a perk, make it a module, that you have to use in the permanent upgrades or knowledge of the ship, that way many players will not be able to hide and will restore the excitement of avoiding a boarding.

I've seen boats lower sails and sit there quietly without being approached, or some AFK player is now safe because of this perk, for pirates and any player who likes PVP this perk is removing content from the game instead of adding it

Regards
Carlos Condell

 

Boarding.jpg

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Frankly it's ruined OW hunting and port battles for me.  Anyone that thinks rage boarding is easy has no idea how to do it.

I would changed determined defender for a 1 time cooldown on "cutting" the line grapples.  First time you try and board them it doesn't work.  60 seconds later if they are still able to be boarded you should be able to pull them.

Easy change.

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i think this... why i cant board with less crew?  is not fair and take away content.
 

6 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Frankly it's ruined OW hunting and port battles for me.  Anyone that thinks rage boarding is easy has no idea how to do it.

 

Agree

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Just now, Christendom said:

Frankly it's ruined OW hunting and port battles for me.  Anyone that thinks rage boarding is easy has no idea how to do it.

I would changed determined defender for a 1 time cooldown on "cutting" the line grapples.  First time you try and board them it doesn't work.  60 seconds later if they are still able to be boarded you should be able to pull them.

Easy change.

i would maybe change it with morale so each ship start with lets say 70 morale depends on the br difference in the start of the battle, if you have determined defender you get 30% more morale, and to be able to board you should have more morale than the opponent. It can increase and decrease by the amount of shocks taken / given, which makes it go up and down through the battle. Everything maybe synced with the amount of ammunitions, and repairs etc left. Maybe even hp of the ship

 

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Hethwill threw this picture out last time there was a discussion.  A brig with boarding netting. 

I would envision this to be a "determined defender"  It'll save the crew once, but not against multiple boarding attempts

unknown.png

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