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Percival Merewether

Boarding + 'Determined Defender' suggestion

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The question is do we want someone to be able to drive straight into someone and instantly board without having to do something to soften them up first? Remember the days of gold marines and ships that were purely boarding ships that were able to win the boarding in one round nearly every time, that was not fun gameplay.

I prefer the suggestion where the effectiveness of DD is related to the morale, but you would have to be able to see your current crew morale to know if you were susceptible to boarding. With full crew and high morale it should be difficult to board unless you have a large numerical advantage and I think the 30% given by DD replicates that well and avoids the boarding meta.

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1 minute ago, Archaos said:

The question is do we want someone to be able to drive straight into someone and instantly board without having to do something to soften them up first?

Against civilian crews handling trade vessels ? Aye. 30% is immense in a schooner/brig to brig fight. In a frigate to frigate fight is not that much :) and I feel it is okay ( if it has a payoff like proposed above - Must be in Boarding mode and above a certain level, i'd say 70/100 )

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I am with @rediii here. 30% is too high - if we must keep DD then bring it down to 10%-20%.

I would much rather it be different (a thread by Hachi in suggestions talk about morale and how that could be worked into boarding overall), but I will settle with a simpler solution.

 

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2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

 

Against civilian crews handling trade vessels ? Aye. 30% is immense in a schooner/brig to brig fight. In a frigate to frigate fight is not that much :) and I feel it is okay ( if it has a payoff like proposed above - Must be in Boarding mode and above a certain level, i'd say 70/100 )

It really is two different issues.  Traders should be very vulnerable to boarding.  Military vessels should not be. 

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I'm with rediii. Don't like DD much (didn't before and still don't) as it pretty much takes away boarding as an option. DD only active when at some level of boarding prep would be much better.

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2 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

It really is two different issues.  Traders should be very vulnerable to boarding.  Military vessels should not be. 

All vessels should be vulnerable, more so if they are not ready/prep for boarding.

On the part of a true grit DD, search the trader Isabella defense versus the Marquis de Brancas.

 

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51 minutes ago, rediii said:

30% is too much. 10% would be fine.

It makes boardingmods on 1st rates realy unimportant right now. Boarding is a skill aswell.

What could work aswell is that DD is only active when your boardingprep is higher than 50

The current minigame is not skill based. It is more ping based.

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2 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

The current minigame is not skill based. It is more ping based.

its not. For a very small part yes but not as much as you think.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Now that we have given some time to DD to settle in (with 30% bonus) lets have a honest discussion about its effects on the game play and the need for tuning?

What are your thoughts? 

It is fine, it prevents the stupid rage boarding we saw before from many players.

Im sorry but the boarding minigame is so awful that anything that avoids it is welcome. Now is more cannon firing and tactics than lets go board the slowest ship as fast as we can.

Edited by Intrepido
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19 minutes ago, jodgi said:

I'm with rediii. Don't like DD much (didn't before and still don't) as it pretty much takes away boarding as an option. DD only active when at some level of boarding prep would be much better.

If DD is linked to boarding prep then they need to give greater flexibility to assigning crew so you could have the ability to keep boarding prep up. I still think it would be better to link it to morale, as morale drops so does the effectiveness of DD.

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I like the 30% mark. If I choose to invest officer points in it(!!!), it should give a decent bonus. Maybe tweak it down to 25%, but any lower would make it too expensive in points. Don't force the boarding meta, it favours gear over skill and should be difficult to engage.

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29 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

All vessels should be vulnerable, more so if they are not ready/prep for boarding.

On the part of a true grit DD, search the trader Isabella defense versus the Marquis de Brancas.

 

This is way to go. Reduce the %30.

or much BETTER, each boading perk on your ship adds %5 to determined defender.

Battleship with 5 slots filled with boarding mods 5x5 = %25 determined defender at max.

Trader with 3 slots filled with boarding perks gives you %15 DD.

give us DD when boarding prepared, when boarding prepared, let ship with more marines/muskets starts shooting other ship when in boarding range, ships will start to lose crew and morale.

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In my opinion it can be 30% but not 30% difference in comparison. It should be till 30% of crew got destroyed.

To make it a rage board killer and not a overall boarding killer.

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The current 30% is too much, especially when trying to board SOL. It is such a pain and time waster when trying to board SOLs with smaller ships (can easily turn a 10 minute battle into 1 hr.) Many good suggestions have been put forth, I personally like the idea of morale having an effect on DD. For example, each crew/sail/reload shock reduces the required crew amount by 5-10%. But I think any change would be welcomed :)

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For example come and board my L’Ocean which is very cramped plus hammocks upgrades :) and don’t forget DD perk.

About 1200-1250 crew, can not remember exactly. But you can board me with 1600 crew at start of battle :) or how many do you need to reduce my crew to board me ?

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Once again its the mods.  If you have the gear, you play the boarding game.  If you don't, you lose when you get rammed.  very weak.

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24 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

The current 30% is too much, especially when trying to board SOL. It is such a pain and time waster when trying to board SOLs with smaller ships (can easily turn a 10 minute battle into 1 hr.) Many good suggestions have been put forth, I personally like the idea of morale having an effect on DD. For example, each crew/sail/reload shock reduces the required crew amount by 5-10%. But I think any change would be welcomed :)

But it should not be easy to board a SOL in a smaller ship unless you have seriously damaged it or decrewed it. First rates were flagships and the loss would be looked on very seriously hence why the defenders would be more determined, so 30% is a good number for DD on a SOL. Maybe it could be lower the lower the rate of the ship is with traders having the lowest, after all not many traders tried to fight off ships of war, most surrendered at the first shot if they knew they could not outrun them. It was ridiculous that a much smaller ship could basically take out a SOL just because they had boarding prep up and were running full boarding mods and gold marines. Does boarding even take into account the height difference between ships, it would be more difficult for a frigate to board a SOL rather than the other way round.

Not sure how the game calculates morale of the crew, does ship damage affect morale or is it only crew losses, but morale tied into the effectiveness of DD would be good.

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Quite frankly DD has ruined most aspects of PVP for me.  It makes sailing in a larger ship almost necessary if you want to solo privateer and get in and out of fights quickly or if you fight anything other than traders.  

This weekend I spent most of it out solo hunting down in the belize tumbado region.  I don't remember how many kills, but 200 or so marks.  In only 1 of the situations was I able to board a smaller ship and it was a demasted shallow ship.  In one situation I had a demasted indy (I was in a trinc) and took off about 70-80 of his crew and went in for the board.  NOPE.  I'm just flat out astonished that I can kill 70/80 crew and demast the ship and STILL not board it.  That was a 2v1 and the other ship was also demasted and limping along, I needed knock one out quickly.  Or attempted to.  So I just sit next to him with double ball, take excessive damage and waste his time and mine....and moved on to the next.  Frankly it's stupid.

And while I'm sure @Hethwill will link me that picture of a ship using boarding netting against 2-3 long boats, boarding netting was only really effective against smaller launches where the boarders would have to climb up.  Another ship would just sail up and shred the netting with grape or bar shot.

Determined defender should only really work once.  If you're still in range to board the 2nd time, you got him.  

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@Oberon74 but this is a sandbox, if your captain does not know about boarding mods, sorry but he should avoid.

Most mods can be acquired from ai ship or from shop. This is the game.

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4 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

@Oberon74 but this is a sandbox, if your captain does not know about boarding mods, sorry but he should avoid.

Most mods can be acquired from ai ship or from shop. This is the game.

Then same should go for DD. You shouldn't be able to gankboard another ship if the captain has the skill to see and counter your boarding action.

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1 minute ago, Cornelius Trash said:

Then same should go for DD. You shouldn't be able to gankboard another ship if the captain has the skill to see and counter your boarding action.

too bad there is no counter to boarding actions. You're immediately grabbed and pulled with no way to fend it off. Once you're locked in it's too late and you're surrounded.

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In truth the boarding nets were mostly used when foundered :)  Yanks have a great example of that during 1812 war with a full flotilla with them up.

Posted the picture as a historical example of how tools were used to enhance probability of resisting boarding attempts by enemy. Remember we do not have positional boarding yet.

 

 

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Just now, Hethwill said:

In truth the boarding nets were mostly used when foundered :)  Yanks have a great example of that during 1812 war with a full flotilla with them up.

Posted the picture as a historical example of how tools were used to enhance probability of resisting boarding attempts by enemy. Remember we do not have positional boarding yet.

it doesn't need to go that far, we don't even have proper grappling in game yet. It's immediate and there's no counter to being pulled, no way to cut the ropes or push off the ship

Edited by Slim McSauce

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