Boarding + 'Determined Defender' suggestion

[Raf Van Boom]

I think this deserves an in-game exit poll 😀

[Archaos]

19 minutes ago, jodgi said:

I'm with rediii. Don't like DD much (didn't before and still don't) as it pretty much takes away boarding as an option. DD only active when at some level of boarding prep would be much better.

If DD is linked to boarding prep then they need to give greater flexibility to assigning crew so you could have the ability to keep boarding prep up. I still think it would be better to link it to morale, as morale drops so does the effectiveness of DD.

[Kloothommel]

I like the 30% mark. If I choose to invest officer points in it(!!!), it should give a decent bonus. Maybe tweak it down to 25%, but any lower would make it too expensive in points. Don't force the boarding meta, it favours gear over skill and should be difficult to engage.

[AeRoTR]

29 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

All vessels should be vulnerable, more so if they are not ready/prep for boarding.

On the part of a true grit DD, search the trader Isabella defense versus the Marquis de Brancas.

 

This is way to go. Reduce the %30.

or much BETTER, each boading perk on your ship adds %5 to determined defender.

Battleship with 5 slots filled with boarding mods 5x5 = %25 determined defender at max.

Trader with 3 slots filled with boarding perks gives you %15 DD.

give us DD when boarding prepared, when boarding prepared, let ship with more marines/muskets starts shooting other ship when in boarding range, ships will start to lose crew and morale.

[z4ys]

In my opinion it can be 30% but not 30% difference in comparison. It should be till 30% of crew got destroyed.

To make it a rage board killer and not a overall boarding killer.

[Capn Rocko]

The current 30% is too much, especially when trying to board SOL. It is such a pain and time waster when trying to board SOLs with smaller ships (can easily turn a 10 minute battle into 1 hr.) Many good suggestions have been put forth, I personally like the idea of morale having an effect on DD. For example, each crew/sail/reload shock reduces the required crew amount by 5-10%. But I think any change would be welcomed

[AeRoTR]

For example come and board my L’Ocean which is very cramped plus hammocks upgrades  and don’t forget DD perk.

About 1200-1250 crew, can not remember exactly. But you can board me with 1600 crew at start of battle  or how many do you need to reduce my crew to board me ?

[Angus MacDuff]

Once again its the mods.  If you have the gear, you play the boarding game.  If you don't, you lose when you get rammed.  very weak.

[Archaos]

24 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

The current 30% is too much, especially when trying to board SOL. It is such a pain and time waster when trying to board SOLs with smaller ships (can easily turn a 10 minute battle into 1 hr.) Many good suggestions have been put forth, I personally like the idea of morale having an effect on DD. For example, each crew/sail/reload shock reduces the required crew amount by 5-10%. But I think any change would be welcomed

But it should not be easy to board a SOL in a smaller ship unless you have seriously damaged it or decrewed it. First rates were flagships and the loss would be looked on very seriously hence why the defenders would be more determined, so 30% is a good number for DD on a SOL. Maybe it could be lower the lower the rate of the ship is with traders having the lowest, after all not many traders tried to fight off ships of war, most surrendered at the first shot if they knew they could not outrun them. It was ridiculous that a much smaller ship could basically take out a SOL just because they had boarding prep up and were running full boarding mods and gold marines. Does boarding even take into account the height difference between ships, it would be more difficult for a frigate to board a SOL rather than the other way round.

Not sure how the game calculates morale of the crew, does ship damage affect morale or is it only crew losses, but morale tied into the effectiveness of DD would be good.

[Christendom]

Quite frankly DD has ruined most aspects of PVP for me.  It makes sailing in a larger ship almost necessary if you want to solo privateer and get in and out of fights quickly or if you fight anything other than traders.  

This weekend I spent most of it out solo hunting down in the belize tumbado region.  I don't remember how many kills, but 200 or so marks.  In only 1 of the situations was I able to board a smaller ship and it was a demasted shallow ship.  In one situation I had a demasted indy (I was in a trinc) and took off about 70-80 of his crew and went in for the board.  NOPE.  I'm just flat out astonished that I can kill 70/80 crew and demast the ship and STILL not board it.  That was a 2v1 and the other ship was also demasted and limping along, I needed knock one out quickly.  Or attempted to.  So I just sit next to him with double ball, take excessive damage and waste his time and mine....and moved on to the next.  Frankly it's stupid.

And while I'm sure @Hethwill will link me that picture of a ship using boarding netting against 2-3 long boats, boarding netting was only really effective against smaller launches where the boarders would have to climb up.  Another ship would just sail up and shred the netting with grape or bar shot.

Determined defender should only really work once.  If you're still in range to board the 2nd time, you got him.  

[AeRoTR]

@Oberon74 but this is a sandbox, if your captain does not know about boarding mods, sorry but he should avoid.

Most mods can be acquired from ai ship or from shop. This is the game.

[Slim McSauce]

boarding is lame, chain to 60% ram a bit ahead and grapple. Ez win with little effort or skill.

[Kloothommel]

4 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

@Oberon74 but this is a sandbox, if your captain does not know about boarding mods, sorry but he should avoid.

Most mods can be acquired from ai ship or from shop. This is the game.

Then same should go for DD. You shouldn't be able to gankboard another ship if the captain has the skill to see and counter your boarding action.

[Slim McSauce]

1 minute ago, Cornelius Trash said:

Then same should go for DD. You shouldn't be able to gankboard another ship if the captain has the skill to see and counter your boarding action.

too bad there is no counter to boarding actions. You're immediately grabbed and pulled with no way to fend it off. Once you're locked in it's too late and you're surrounded.

[Hethwill]

In truth the boarding nets were mostly used when foundered   Yanks have a great example of that during 1812 war with a full flotilla with them up.

Posted the picture as a historical example of how tools were used to enhance probability of resisting boarding attempts by enemy. Remember we do not have positional boarding yet.

 

 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Hethwill said:

In truth the boarding nets were mostly used when foundered   Yanks have a great example of that during 1812 war with a full flotilla with them up.

Posted the picture as a historical example of how tools were used to enhance probability of resisting boarding attempts by enemy. Remember we do not have positional boarding yet.

it doesn't need to go that far, we don't even have proper grappling in game yet. It's immediate and there's no counter to being pulled, no way to cut the ropes or push off the ship

Edited May 7, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Hethwill]

Just now, Slim McSauce said:

it doesn't need to go that far, we don't even have proper grappling in game yet. It's immediate and there's no counter to being pulled, no way to cut the ropes or push off the ship

A friend can push the ship away  ... it feels horrible.

[Slim McSauce]

4 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

A friend can push the ship away  ... it feels horrible.

yet you cant cut the invisible rope yourself, or do anything to delay the insta-board. Boarding is the poo stain on the clean white undies of NA combat

Edited May 7, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Christendom]

24 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

boarding is lame, chain to 60% ram a bit ahead and grapple. Ez win with little effort or skill.

In reality if you were to shred a the rigging/spars/masts to 60% of what they were the ship would have little more than steerage way and be at the mercy of the aggressor ship performing a dreaded stern rake or two.  See the Constitution vs the Java fight.  Most captains would face the inevitable if their ships were demasted or horribly mauled and strike the colors to preserve the crew. 

I fail to see how demasting or chaining a ship down to 50/60% of its sails and boarding is any different really.  

DD should only work once.  If you're still in a position to be boarded after the first time and the 90second grapple CD you should be fair game.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Christendom

[Vile Executioner]

In my own opinion, if you have determined defender, boarding preparation should effect how determined your crew is. If you have 0 prep, then determined defender should not work. If your not prepared to push laters and repel ropes, then you simply can’t be determined enough to defend. 30% is fine if this is added. 50% prep for 15% determined defender, 100% for 30% defender. I think if your crew is not told to prepare for boarding, then you should not be prepared to push a latter off with a simple perk. 

[Slim McSauce]

2 minutes ago, Christendom said:

In reality if you were to shred a the rigging/spars/masts to 60% of what they were the ship would have little more than steerage way and be at the mercy of the aggressor ship performing a dreaded stern rake or two.  Most captains would face the inevitable if their ships were demasted or horribly mauled and strike the colors to preserve the crew. 

I fail to see how demasting or chaining a ship down to 50/60% of its sails and boarding is any different really.  

DD should only work once.  If you're still in a position to be boarded after the first time and the 90second grapple CD you should be fair game.

It isn't different, but it doesn't change the fact that boarding is the outlier in terms of realism, practicality and overall making sense in a broad sense of the term.

Boarding is the OW equivalent of the battle instance. It's painfully underdeveloped.

[Christendom]

5 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

It isn't different, but it doesn't change the fact that boarding is the outlier in terms of realism, practicality and overall making sense in a broad sense of the term.

Boarding is the OW equivalent of the battle instance. It's painfully underdeveloped.

The act of chaining/disabling a ship and boarding is perhaps the most historically accurate aspect of the combat in this game.  The boarding mini-game needs work but I actually kinda like it.  Majority of the ships historically were taken by boarding or disabled enough to the fact that the captains surrendered.  Unlike NA the price was always in the other ship and it's contents, not imaginary marks.  It was in fact very difficult to actually sink a ship.  

 

[Slim McSauce]

4 minutes ago, Christendom said:

The act of chaining/disabling a ship and boarding is perhaps the most historically accurate aspect of the combat in this game.  The boarding mini-game needs work but I actually kinda like it.  Majority of the ships historically were taken by boarding or disabled enough to the fact that the captains surrendered.  Unlike NA the price was always in the other ship and it's contents, not imaginary marks.  It was in fact very difficult to actually sink a ship.  

The act of boarding itself isn't realistic nor does it make practical sense. Boarding actions start when the first grapple is thrown, the defenders are able to cut the ropes with axes and beat back the attempts to lock the ships together before even being pulled. In this game it's instant pull and board and doesn't at all reflect how it was done.

Even though it's such a huge part of what age of sail was, it's simplified to absurdity. Literally one button to immediate affect, not even a minigame or something.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Christendom]

1 minute ago, Slim McSauce said:

The act of boarding itself isn't realistic nor does it make practical sense. Boarding actions start when the first grapple is thrown, the defenders are able to cut the ropes with axes and beat back the attempts to lock the ships together before even being pulled. In this game it's instant pull and board and doesn't at all reflect how it was done.

It's not like you just sail up and board.  You need to slow the ship/disable and get it below a certain speed and/or push it into the wind.  A good captain can get out of it a few times.  

Most people who do not understand the process of boarding think it's far too easy. 

[Slim McSauce]

4 minutes ago, Christendom said:

It's not like you just sail up and board.  You need to slow the ship/disable and get it below a certain speed and/or push it into the wind.  A good captain can get out of it a few times.  

Most people who do not understand the process of boarding think it's far too easy. 

and it's not like you just magnetically pull a ship towards you. You need to throw 1, 2, 3, multiple grapples before being able to even pull a ship of that size let alone lock it to your side to where it can't escape by simply dropping sails and pulling you with it while your planks and ladders fall away to the ocean.

"the process of boarding" LOL.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Slim McSauce