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Forthcoming Patch 23. Hercules, Tutorial and Map teaser

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17 minutes ago, Headless Parrot said:

Bull.........there is no way you can explain this where it makes any sense. So basically, you are forcing players to take ships they cant afford to replace into areas they are sure to be ganked. Brilliant.  Watch the numbers drop even more....

Agree whole hardheartedly,  if I reach my daily limit and still get shit missions, I'll just play another game instead, well done devs. I thought you r idea was to create a great game for all and make yourselves a decent amount of money on the way. 

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21 minutes ago, El Presidenté Amplify said:

as always 1 step forward 2 steps backwards when will this stupidity of no names no ship class and less noob protection stop?

 

Captain this is a friendly development forum where we all gathered to have a good time. The fact that you dont like something does not make it stupid. Such language makes it harder to connect with you and your feedback.

Cancellation limit is a step forward (the proper step would be complete removal of missions), limits on cancellations is a good compromise.

Admiralty sends you to the mission you honestly cannot argue with the mission location. Historically if you declined orders you would be demoted or fired.

Workaround is simple - If you dont like the mission - sail out to OW there are plenty of NPCs.
Or wait until next day. You get 3 more cancellations attempts. 
Even Eve limits mission cancellations by a significant drop in agent reputation. 

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Frigate only patrol zone is good, RoE fix would be better

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1 minute ago, admin said:

...

Guess we would have less of a discussion about that topic if people would understand that our view distance in-game is so huge compared to rl. I bet the 20km tag circle look for most people like a 500m circle.

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Regarding ship ID:  Just because Wally and his wife's second cousin saw the Acheron out of water doesn't mean that every ship could ID another from sight.

The French fought, I believe it was the Constellation during the Quasi-War and thought she was a fifty gunner, just because of the rate of fire!

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I have not read a few words, but it seems to me it looks awesome :blink::o

Edited by Moscalb
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5 minutes ago, admin said:

Captain this is a friendly development forum where we all gathered to have a good time. The fact that you dont like something does not make it stupid. Such language makes it harder to connect with you and your feedback.

Cancellation limit is a step forward (the proper step would be complete removal of missions), limits on cancellations is a good compromise.

Admiralty sends you to the mission you honestly cannot argue with the mission location. Historically if you declined orders you would be demoted or fired.

Workaround is simple - If you dont like the mission - sail out to OW there are plenty of NPCs.
Or wait until next day. You get 3 more cancellations attempts. 
Even Eve limits mission cancellations by a significant drop in agent reputation. 

Seems reasonable , it isn’t like AI fleets are hard to come by.

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11 minutes ago, admin said:

only way to implement this historical element: inability to exactly know who you are facing from 20 mile

I love and appreciate your passion for realism and historical accuracy in NA.

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3 minutes ago, admin said:

Workaround is simple - If you dont like the mission - sail out to OW there are plenty of NPCs. Or wait until next day. You get 3 more cancellations attempts. 

Well to me it seems like you might not have played as a British character on the PVE server in a while, but correct me if I am wrong. The fact of the matter is there are not enough NPC fleets around highly populated areas to allow you to get good balanced fights against NPC fleets reliably and thats why the missions are so important on the PVE server. If this was matchmaking people wouldn't sit around for up to 30 minutes for a match, they would most certainly just find another game to play.

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14 minutes ago, admin said:


Cancellation limit is a step forward (the proper step would be complete removal of missions), limits on cancellations is a good compromise.

Admiralty sends you to the mission you honestly cannot argue with the mission location. Historically if you declined orders you would be demoted or fired.

Workaround is simple - If you dont like the mission - sail out to OW there are plenty of NPCs.
Or wait until next day. You get 3 more cancellations attempts. 
Even Eve limits mission cancellations by a significant drop in agent reputation. 

So what you saying is that if a person wants to xp their rank in peace or their ship in peace they are not allowed to do it? 

As for EVE, if I wanted pvp action I went to systems with a security level  below 0.4 (if I remember correctly) or completely to 0.0 space. I went into those areas knowing that I risk all and could get hit at any time, but I liked the excitement and possible greater rewards to make it worth the risk. Occasionally I lost out but I knew that before I went in. If I was just making money to be able to afford losing ships and to grind better ships, I stayed in higher security areas where it was safe. So cancellation of missions was not that common and the three cancellation rule was fair and worked in EVE. Every player in the game had this choice.

Now with these changes here in NA, that choice is being taken away, the only choice will be to do missions regardless of where they are in be prey to the gankers who will really benefit from this, or go play another game. Yeah a really great idea to increase the player base.

Edited by Michael Corvinus
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8 minutes ago, Hethwill said:
52 minutes ago, The Marinadtor said:

 

I agree that we look for games' experience differently, yes :) 

Well your argument is you play the game a certain way so if it caters to it then its good. My argument is that my understanding of what most PVE players want is hurt by this which would make it bad for alot of players, hurting the game in the long run by even worse player retention then currently. I don't see how your argument is valid in the context?

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9 minutes ago, admin said:

You can only see a top sail from 20 miles
You can judge a size of the ship by a top sail, but not a ship itself. 
One would argue that you cannot even judge the size of the fleet at all (if they are sailing in a line formation towards you). 

We know what we are taking out, but the visual recognition (especially in bad weather condition) will become a more integral part of the game and will bring both excitement AND frustration to OW combat - which is somewhat historical (given an abstract travel map) and this is the only way to implement this historical element.

 

What is the RL distance compared to tag circles?  Not every thing is 20 miles in game, if your that close than you should have more detail of the ship. I don't mind having less detail at a distance, but folks should be able to get more details than they do when they close in distance between two ships.  Ok how about you program it so that if your close enough to tag than all detial is found out about a ship than?  This is a game after all not real life and if you keep making it harder for the causal your going to loose players once again.  I honestly don't think ya'll even try to play and get feed back from them.   Most of the folks that love this are in nations with pretty much zero new players or causal so they love it, but when your dealing with a large player base of such you get first hand feed back of how much a pain this game is and lack of info they give up or stay in the safe zones.  

You say it will give more excitement and frustration, but all I hear in coms and TS is more Frustration and less excitement.   

8 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

Regarding ship ID:  Just because Wally and his wife's second cousin saw the Acheron out of water doesn't mean that every ship could ID another from sight.

The French fought, I believe it was the Constellation during the Quasi-War and thought she was a fifty gunner, just because of the rate of fire!

Which was just fine with keeping the ratings of the ships.  Like I stated before most players can't even tell the difference between rated and none rated ships they never been in.  So even if it stats a 5th rate the majority of the players aren't going to know if it's an Indefatigable or Surprise unless they been in that ship, that a very big difference in ships when your tagging them.  Leave it to something small like that, not complete darkness of what they are about to fight.

Like I stated what next remove the BR counter?  Cause that seems to be the path your going towards.  Since I don't see any of you Devs or Mods or ELITE players playing in large pop nations that have a bunch of Casual you don't deal with the frustrations some of us deal with the new players and casuals and trying to get them into enjoying this game instead of just going out and being slaughter by Vets that just Seal CLUB instead of fighting each other.

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18 minutes ago, admin said:


Even Eve limits mission cancellations by a significant drop in agent reputation. 

If you want to talk about EVE, at least tell the whole truth and not just the part that is convenient for you.

In EVE you have dozens of other agents in nearby systems where you can take a mission in safe space. Here you have a cap of three refusal for ALL the missions in ALL the ports!

 

Edited by victor
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7 minutes ago, Michael Corvinus said:

So what you saying is that if a person want to xp their rank in peace or their ship in peace they are not allowed to do it? 

As for EVE, if I wanted pvp action I went to systems with a security level  below 0.4 (if I remember correctly) or completely to 0.0 space. I went into those areas knowing that I risk all and could get hit at any time, but I liked the excitement and possible greater rewards to make it worth the risk. Occasionally I lost out but I knew that before I went in. If I was just making money to be able to afford losing ships and to grind better ships, I stayed in higher security areas where it was safe. So cancellation of missions was not that common and the three cancellation rule was fair and worked in EVE. Every player in the game had this choice.

Now with these changes here in NA, that choice is being taken away, the only choice will be to do missions regardless of where they are in be prey to the gankers who will really benefit from this, or go play another game. Yeah a really great idea to increase the player base.

But in eve you also couldnt fly the big ships in highsec is that right?

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2 hours ago, NethrosDefectus said:

Is the open world geography getting an update? That map looks very confusing, much of it doesn't seem to correspond to the current map.

(As in, are geographical features being added/moved?)

its randomly placed islands, its just for an example of the artwork

 

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22 minutes ago, admin said:

You can only see a top sail from 20 miles
You can judge a size of the ship by a top sail, but not a ship itself. 
One would argue that you cannot even judge the size of the fleet at all (if they are sailing in a line formation towards you). 

We know what we are taking out, but the visual recognition (especially in bad weather condition) will become a more integral part of the game and will bring both excitement AND frustration to OW combat - which is somewhat historical (given an abstract travel map) and this is the only way to implement this historical element: inability to exactly know who you are facing from 20 miles.

 

So why not give us better information (ship type, name, chat, fleet comp) as you get closer or through use of the spy glass?

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25 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Chain limited....but not repairs.  Sigh.  Get ready for the endless cycle of being tagged over and over on the OW.  

not sure if i am correct , but when chaine is limited 

repairs will be limited to ....accordingly

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1 hour ago, Powderhorn said:

People forget that mission spawn distance already is closer in the lower rank you are.  No more rear admirals cancelling missions over and over so they can grind first rates in peace.

Three a day is plenty for a casual player, who might only DO three missions in a day.

I don‘t like this limited possibilities of cancelation, because ...

1. I want to sort of chose if I want to play it easy and simply get some money and CM or if I want risk and PvP action.

2. The distances to sail for a mission are ridiculously long sometimes (at the other side of Jamaika and Cuba for instance).

3. Three cancelations are nothing! Devs might as well disable cancellations at all.

My suggestion:

We have ...

a ) PvP missions / zones,

b ) rare ressources outside of the safe zones

c ) and RvR.

This - adjusted and enhanced - will get players out of the safe zones and should suffice to get enough PvP going.

Therefore i’d vote for the following measures:

- Enable unlimited cancellations again / let them stay unlimited.

- Let PvE missions taken in a nations capital only spawn inside the safe zones.

This would enable comfortably earning safe money and CM as a kind of assurance. On such grounds players are able to flung themselves and the ships they want into risky PvP fights, because they‘d know how to get basic resources back.

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8 minutes ago, The Marinadtor said:

Well your argument is you play the game a certain way so if it caters to it then its good. My argument is that my understanding of what most PVE players want is hurt by this which would make it bad for alot of players, hurting the game in the long run by even worse player retention then currently. I don't see how your argument is valid in the context?

I'm not following your line of thought. It is too entangled between pve/pvp, sp/mp, risk/reward... no idea what you are trying to explain, not even what server you talking about. Sorry.

 

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7 minutes ago, rediii said:

But in eve you also couldnt fly the big ships in highsec is that right?

Big ships in EVE (titans, carriers, dreadhoughts) are much more than a first rate, they have a totally different gameplay then the other ships. Exluding maybe the carriers, they are very "niche" ships, each of their having a specific purpose.

I'd compare 1st rates to marauders, and in a marauder you can fly in high sec.

Edited by victor
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21 minutes ago, admin said:

Captain this is a friendly development forum where we all gathered to have a good time. The fact that you dont like something does not make it stupid. Such language makes it harder to connect with you and your feedback.

Cancellation limit is a step forward (the proper step would be complete removal of missions), limits on cancellations is a good compromise.

Admiralty sends you to the mission you honestly cannot argue with the mission location. Historically if you declined orders you would be demoted or fired.

Workaround is simple - If you dont like the mission - sail out to OW there are plenty of NPCs.
Or wait until next day. You get 3 more cancellations attempts. 
Even Eve limits mission cancellations by a significant drop in agent reputation. 

Great changes this ^ but I have one little "but". Any chance to code missions preventing them to turn 5-10 min sail into 30-40 min sail? I am talking about situations that spawn on the other side of some islands, so you have to go all the way around. Missions taken from Rio Seco can spawn in Guacata lake and vice versa (that's about 1h sail if not more). Don't put mission spawning area closer to ports, just prevent them from spawning on the other sides of land massives. Land territory could count as 2-3 times sea territory distance for instance. Small islands won't be an issue and problem will be solved.

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2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

I'm not following your line of thought. It is too entangled between pve/pvp, sp/mp, risk/reward... no idea what you are trying to explain, not even what server you talking about. Sorry.

 

I believe he’s talking of PVE server.

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2 minutes ago, victor said:

Big ships in EVE (titans, carriers, dreadhoughts) are much more than a first rate, they have a totally different gameplay then the other ships. Exluding maybe the carriers, they are very "niche" ships, each of their having a specific purpose.

I'd compare 1st rates to marauders, and in a marauder you can fly in high sec.

whats the titans etc. then in NA?

I would say 1sts have a different playstyle than 3rds aswell

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@admin

Just to be clear:

With the exception of the PvE mission cancellation limit and limited chain without limited repairs I like the intended changes a lot! 😊

Keep going!

Edited by Navalus Magnus

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