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Cetric de Cornusiac

A reward for staying alive / not getting sunk // captivity option

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Alright, as I moved over to PvP server and made my insights for a week or two, I got the following ideas.

 

Part One:

Make death a more severe event (almost like in real life :)) for giving people a reason to spare their character its death.

Now it is only an economic disadvantage when you get sunk and killed, you lose a ship and its cargo.

We should shift the focus to the personal side and give a reason to avoid getting killed, for sake of becoming more realistic in that matter. IRL you do everything for not dying, right? So let it happen in the game, too.

I am not proposing a punishment for dying. This could just get used as an argument for this game being too hardcore and scaring off new players. I am proposing advantages for staying alive.

--

The game would measure how long someone has not died recently. The longer he can stay alive, the more he would receive in bonus. This is the motive for people to take their mortality in game more serious. If the long-time unavoidable happens and you get sunk another time and die, the counter would get resetted and you would have to wait accordingly for receiving a new 'survival bonus'.

--

Now, what could that bonus be? Maybe percentages of a victory point. Or percentages of an admirality note, or a rare permit, or a rare book, which will be given to you once the 100% is achieved. Then the next one... randomly, of course, so it does not become predictable. I am against giving money or battle points this way. We would count the time being logged into the server, not real time outside.

The effect of this proposed game feature would be, people would be more careful about losing their lives. Your success in staying afloat gains a new value.

--

Part Two of this suggestion:

Not every defeat in battle should mean your death. Your opponent could chose to spare your life and take you as prisoner. Then he will ask a ransom from your nation for your release. Or simply let you go at the next port, out of courtesy. The ransom could be negotiable between the winner and the clan of the prisoner, or get determined by your rank and (sic!) your accumulated surviving time. Did you manage to stay alive for a long time in Naval Action? Prepare to pay a high price for staying this way! - Now what if nobody or yourself pay the ransom? Sorry, I think that would mean your death and you find yourself "fresh" at the home port, but with wiped survival counter.

10058.jpg

Edited by Cetric de Cornusiac
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4 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

IRL you do everything for not dying, right?

Depends what Navy you want to "impersonate".

Most blatant example would be Nelson at Trafalgar in open view of french musketry, and with predictable results.

To a point RN captains were expected to face the odds and show bravery as befitting their station, even facing twice the amount of cannon.

But... if not a cpatain cut for greatness... then yes... I guess saving their own skin was often more important than everything else.

I think most players fit the second option more than the first already albeit we are here to fight heroically.

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Just now, Gregory Rainsborough said:

What about losing all your perk slots and then you'd have to grind them up again?

This was Officers back then :ph34r:

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1 minute ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

What about losing all your perk slots and then you'd have to grind them up again?

So you can die IRL of old age during the regrind?

Edited by victor
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IMO we shouldnt promote running from a winnable battle even more; but surrendering should have a benefit over getting sunk

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2 minutes ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

 It doesn't take that long to regrind them back up,

In a snow it does not

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3 minutes ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

I'm talking about perks, not knowledge slots.

I did not understand, my fault

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Would this not just promote less PvP so there was less risk of getting killed and losing your "survival bonus".

The problem with trying to replicate real life and mortality is that in the game you can totally avoid risk, people can just log on and do nothing so they pick up the bonuses on alts. In game we are not captains in a navy that gives you orders to go places and engage the enemy, with repercussions if you disobey. Traders do not have to ferry goods round the map as would happen in real life. 

Personally I think a better system would be a review of battles and a ranking system based on that. A ranking system where you could lose rank as well as gain rank. If your ship gets sunk you face a court martial where the review determines the outcome, if you were ganked 3v1 then you would not be at fault for the loss, if it was the other way round then the review would determine that you lose rank points. If you run from battle the review would determine whether it was a cowardly act or a wise act to save your ship and crew and apply or deduct rank points as necessary. The difficulty would be how to implement such a system where battles were automatically reviewed and rules to determine when rank points were given or deducted. 

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Just now, Archaos said:

In game we are not captains in a navy that gives you orders to go places and engage the enemy, with repercussions if you disobey.

:(

Just now, Archaos said:

Traders do not have to ferry goods round the map as would happen in real life. 

:(

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1 hour ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

The game would measure how long someone has not died recently. The longer he can stay alive, the more he would receive in bonus. This is the motive for people to take their mortality in game more serious. If the long-time unavoidable happens and you get sunk another time and die, the counter would get resetted and you would have to wait accordingly for receiving a new 'survival bonus'.

Imo this wouldn’t be a wise thing to do, because ...

1. players with alts would have an enormous advantage in getting survival boni.

2. players would be encouraged to be cautious to no ends. This might result in less stupid, suicidal behavior. But it would also lead to fewer PvP and experimental battles. Imo it should be the goal to get players out of the safe zones, into trying things and thus into getting better ingame instead of giving boni for doing nothing (except ganking maybe)!

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1 hour ago, Aster said:

I don't think rewarding less risky kind of pvp (ganking) is a good idea.

You can still sail full risk, as my concept does not speak of punishments. You just would not get the bonus. I want to feel more I have a human being opposite me, not a demi-god who knows he cannot die. Not really, that is.

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25 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

players would be encouraged to be cautious to no ends.

I want them only to behave like in real life. Else I can regard them as AI bots, actually? Or what does tell me the difference?

--

Someone mentioned the hero deeds (and deaths) of historical persons like Nelson.

That has a romantic point, but if he or the Admirality would have an option, they certainly would have liked him to survive, or any other commander of quality. Because a surviving commander is the better commander. He can serve his country in battles to come. While the dead commander... well, you guess it. He is just dead meat.

Edited by Cetric de Cornusiac

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2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

I think most players fit the second option more than the first already albeit we are here to fight heroically.

Did it not come across your mind that those who have to fear their death fight more heroically than the 'blind fighting' ones? Because when you know you have to lose something more than just a few thousands of merchandise value, you take your fight more serious, you do more for avoiding the end, you are more desperate - that makes a fight heroic. Not carelessly going into another "spawn".

 

37 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

players with alts would have an enormous advantage in getting survival boni.

This reminds me that more than one character owned by us on the same server should be prevented. That is also better for the role playing part.

 

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

The problem with trying to replicate real life and mortality is that in the game you can totally avoid risk, people can just log on and do nothing so they pick up the bonuses

An idea could be the time while you are in open world is being measured by the 'survival bonus counter' only. So you are on a ship and you expose yourself to certain risk someone comes along and tags you. Just sitting passively in harbor of course is no way to gain percentages for a survival bonus, I agree on that.

Edited by Cetric de Cornusiac

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Sir, it comes to mind all the time and everytime I press Play and set Sail. I play for the age of sail experience. But alas, not everyone does...

The pureness of combat as being the sole experience seems to be enough for a vast majority, which opinions, other than my own, you can find in a multitude of threads across the forum, without second thoughts on the "life of the character".

In sum, I agree in the "sense of presence" of the type of historical figure we represent in game.

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I think there should be stiffer repercussions for dying and a surrender system. Possibly even the ability to negotiate a surrender, IE offer to surrender and let the enemy take your cargo and let you keep your ship etc. If you surrender you didn't die, and neither did your crew, and there would still be fights, just fights that ended once defeat was inevitable for one side.

Edited by Capt Aerobane
I originally said "a better surrender system" then I realized there is no surrender system lmao
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29 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

An idea could be the time while you are in open world is being measured by the 'survival bonus counter' only. So you are on a ship and you expose yourself to certain risk someone comes along and tags you. Just sitting passively in harbor of course is no way to gain percentages for a survival bonus, I agree on that.

Problem is that there are many quiet areas in the OW where the chances of being tagged are minimal. All you would have to do is sit outside a quiet OW port and if you got tagged then enter port. The only way your idea would work is if everyone was exposed to exactly the same risk and there was no way to avoid it.

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15 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Problem is that there are many quiet areas in the OW where the chances of being tagged are minimal. All you would have to do is sit outside a quiet OW port and if you got tagged then enter port. The only way your idea would work is if everyone was exposed to exactly the same risk and there was no way to avoid it.

Well, but the game already disconnects you after a while of not doing anything, right? Would be really annoying to sit like a mouse in some corner and give a life-sign to the system every now and then just for collecting percentages for the 'survival bonus'. I don't think anyone enjoys this.

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When fighting in the open world once the player is killed I have no reason to kill their ai ships so I will often let them go especially if they are combat not trade ships. The player then does not lose everything. Surrender could work in a similar way, if you surrender your ship raises the white flag then the player can choose to sink you (same as what we have now). Say a trade ship gets attacked, both players could engage in a long drawn out chase thats not really very enjoyable. Or the trade ship could simply offer to surrender for the promise that he will not lose everything. Now of course the attacker could lie and sink him anyway after but then his reputation would get around and no one would surrender to him. At least thats my best idea for surrender at this moment.

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Just now, Aster said:

When fighting in the open world once the player is killed I have no reason to kill their ai ships so I will often let them go especially if they are combat not trade ships. The player then does not lose everything. Surrender could work in a similar way, if you surrender your ship raises the white flag then the player can choose to sink you (same as what we have now). Say a trade ship gets attacked, both players could engage in a long drawn out chase thats not really very enjoyable. Or the trade ship could simply offer to surrender for the promise that he will not lose everything. Now of course the attacker could lie and sink him anyway after but then his reputation would get around and no one would surrender to him. At least thats my best idea for surrender at this moment.

There could be this, but also some negotiating options. For instance letting players have several "offers" they prepare before setting sail, like "keep ship lose cargo" or "keep 2 of my merchant ships you get the third." or "Surrender and you keep 1 or your ships and all the cargo you can fit on it." and then let people make offers while in the battle. If you are willing to accept their offer, either to surrender to you or surrender yourself, then you can accept it. If its just a "surrender and I promise to do x" then yes it would be all just word of mouth, but if its done through ingame processes they couldn't break their deal without becoming a pirate. That way there is an element of reputation involved for some situations, but also some accountability.

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OK, Captains, thanks for the lively responses to my suggestion. I hope you don't get annoyed if I elaborate a little on my idea, as new ones keep coming in:

Part Three:

For the ranson system in case you got captured (and the winner spared your life), I think it would be great if we had a 'solidarity treasury' for each nation or clan, to which every national player gives a certain amount per day. From this cash collection the ransons would be paid to the Captains who present a prisoner of that nation.

Gives a nice social aspect to the whole thing, because each national community would expect from their members not to get captured in battle too often, lest the treasury would get depleted. After that - no ransoms, or just by yourself, taking it from your own money. This is sort of an economic warfare aspect. Many prisoners - many costs to that nation.

Now the ones of you who want players to act more unselfishly or as demi-gods who never fear doom will have to rejoice, because Captains would hate to lose battles more and turn into prisoner, for said reason. And prestige in their community.

 

Edited by Cetric de Cornusiac

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8 minutes ago, Aster said:

 Or the trade ship could simply offer to surrender for the promise that he will not lose everything. Now of course the attacker could lie and sink him anyway after but then his reputation would get around and no one would surrender to him. At least thats my best idea for surrender at this moment.

And this is historical.

Except for Pirates, maybe. They profit from a 'bad ass reputation', fear is part of their business, so let have Pirates have an advantage from NOT sparing your life, contrary to every other nation (if Pirates were a nation at all).

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