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VonVolks

The Combat model as Stands (April 18) & Sails

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Hi all, i wanted to see if we can start a discussion on the current state of the combat mechanic in game.

Since coming back to the game I feel that although the ship sailing model has gotten more realistic with bigger ships being slower and less maneuverable, this combined with the repairs model and the game controls has actually resulted in what I regard as a very negative consequence.

In "the old days" before I left, you had one repair and had to use battle sail (if you were smart) to preserve sails and try to preserve your sails while hurting the enemy (if you chose to target the sails).

Now, the slower ships have resulted in captains deploying full sail ALL THE TIME in order to override the new ship model and enhance maneuverability, whilst using 2 things:

1. The multi repair model to allow for sail damage with no worries as constant repairs can make good) 

2. The "arcadey" mechanic of using swinging yard arms and depowers to "dodge chainshot".

Now as we ALL know, age of sail combat used Battle sails (so named for a good reason) IN BATTLE, and age of sail combat was slow and unmaneuverable, hence the need to think tactically when positioning ships, and the fear of tacking and the importance of wind.

I really feel the current system has really gone away from the realism the devs were aiming at to a more "arcade system" where sails are never used except at 100% and that SOLs are being used almost like very big frigates, maneuvering all over the place, rather than grinding along in straight lines pounding things. "Dodging" chain shot with yard arms swings seems to me the very opposite of the kind of game play we (I?) want. 

I love the realism and "slowness" of age of sail combat where the game WAS heading and the time for thought and to outthink the enemy, and think the move to arcadey fighting with twitch manouveres like sail dodging is not good. Any system which means all ships sail about at 100% sail in combat cannot be seen as a system functioning properly. It defeats the whole idea of different sail rates, and also defeats the idea of "crew allocation" as its raising and lowering sails that really takes a lot of crew, and not so much maneuvering the yards. If your sail allocation is pointless, it means you can just crew the guns / boarding and ignore sails.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

MY opinion is that sails reps should only allow a "diminishing return" of repairs, to encourage sail preservation, eg 1st rep - to 100% (if possible), 2nd rep Max 85%, 3rd rep max 70%

Also perhaps 100% sail will magnify MAST damage? Via more strain and tension on masts (or whatever, but just as a way to prevent constant 100% sailing with no downside)?

Or perhaps each level of sail up, means yards take longer to turn (as more weight and pressure in the sails?) eg 100% sails = 50% slower yard turning, and proportionate penalties down till 1/2 sail?

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Personally, I beg for the end of the changes on the combat mechanics (which more or less are fine now, except for small/medium ship going closer to big ones and nothing bad happens) and the begining of making more varied content for the game.

This game wont survive if the only thing that you can do all day is firing cannons.

 

I hope devs see that the last pvp sailing game launched (Sea of Thieves) is taking some bad reviews precisely for the lack of content.

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@VonVolks and @Intrepido

I think you‘ve both made a point, because I‘d also advocate ...

1. a more realistic combat model, including

a ) limited repairs and ammunition (except ball)

b ) a decreased yard turn speed, so that they can’t be quickly turned away from incoming projectiles

c ) the amount of crew needed to handle the sails increasing and decreasing proportional to the amount of set sails

d ) more damage done to sails and masts when more sails are set

2. more interesting and diverse PvE content

E.g. look to:

3. further balancing and adjusting of PvP and RvR

E.g. look to:

 

Imo the things listed under 1. would be very nice to have!

But 2. and 3. I think might be even vital for the survival of this game!

Edited by Navalus Magnus
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The game combat is going to arcade direction, I would even say that it is slowly getting worse and worse.  Let's see, maybe the new patch will fix this.

 

Every fail you make
Every bow you break
Every rake you take
I'll be healing you

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A definitely agree, the whole "slow things down" sail model (which was great!) has actually meant everyone sailing at 100% sails all the time (which is rubbish!)

@admin is this something that concerns you, as if you are aiming (admirably!) to create a hard core age of sail simulation like game, then surely ships fighting with battle sail is something you want to see..... we want ships of the line not speed boats.....  Is it something you are addressing? Limiting chain as per your recent post just seems to encourage further constant 100% sail sailing....

 

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The simple solution to sailing speed and fighting is to make aiming accuracy speed-dependent. 

At the moment we have what the Devs call smart gunners. when a wave hits the ship but you already let off the broadside, the AI gunners will compensate and hit at the same spot as with the first shot. this makes our life so much easier. 

Currently the issue with battle sails is that we do not need to use it the way it was designed for. Historically battle sails servers two purposes.

1. It steadied the ship to provide a more stable gun platform to work with. 

2. It removed the sails from just above to limit chances of fire and damage. Helped to have a clear fighting deck with the help of battle netting above. 

At the moment with the current smart gunners model, we do not have the need to steady our gun-decks before shooting. Speed does not affect our aim, so we use the system to it's full. 

We also do not need to worry about wreckage of sails and spars blocking our view and aiming hence battle sails are not used as much. 

 

One solution could be to have the existing smart gunners with slow speed and battle sails and have a penalty system at different sail levels. 

Not sure how hard this to work out but it would surely be awesome.

Edited by VO101_HWick
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Good idea. Activate "smart gunnery" only when in battle sail or below. As long as the tutorial made this clear to players!

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8 hours ago, VO101_HWick said:

The simple solution to sailing speed and fighting is to make aiming accuracy speed-dependent. 

At the moment we have what the Devs call smart gunners. when a wave hits the ship but you already let off the broadside, the AI gunners will compensate and hit at the same spot as with the first shot. this makes our life so much easier. 

Currently the issue with battle sails is that we do not need to use it the way it was designed for. Historically battle sails servers two purposes.

1. It steadied the ship to provide a more stable gun platform to work with. 

2. It removed the sails from just above to limit chances of fire and damage. Helped to have a clear fighting deck with the help of battle netting above. 

At the moment with the current smart gunners model, we do not have the need to steady our gun-decks before shooting. Speed does not affect our aim, so we use the system to it's full. 

We also do not need to worry about wreckage of sails and spars blocking our view and aiming hence battle sails are not used as much. 

 

One solution could be to have the existing smart gunners with slow speed and battle sails and have a penalty system at different sail levels. 

Not sure how hard this to work out but it would surely be awesome.

I would add that battle sails also allowed for maneuvering with a more limited crew since in battle more crew was on the guns. Also the amount of sails set depended on the wind strength - something that I think should be in game, in particular if you want a more hardcore combat model.

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