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Chain shot limitations - advanced warning

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1 hour ago, Kutai said:

Have you done one recently? Since they upped the damage and speed of the ships? At 65% sails they still do 12 Knts. So you will have 9 Epic First rate ships on top of you within a few minutes if you try to fight. They also have a tendency to demast you now. 

Done one recently. No one inthe group chained in any epic events we have been doing. Maybe use your head and bring proper ship builds and work together better. #gitgud.

26 minutes ago, admin said:

 I decide how the game will look on release. We all then test and provide feedback. 

Right now you are providing feedback BEFORE testing - which makes your feedback useless.
 

Agreed. Until full content of patch drops and a day or two of testing done. It is pointless just to assume with as little information received so far. Like the concept of limiting chains as long as certain other changes will be made. We will see then.

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2 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

LOL it's not tactical. It changes nothing except that after you use your chain the enemy ship can repair because guess what. He has infinite repairs. Limited ammo vs unlimited hp do not work. But what do I know.  Somehow I don't get any arguments in favor of repairs because admin prefers to argue with people that talk about player-base... 

Not  long time ago you were able to repair ONLY once, and your oponent was still able to chain you. This, limited chain ammount,  is basically the same only vice versa in terms of repairs/chains.

 

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6 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

LOL it's not tactical. It changes nothing except that after you use your chain the enemy ship can repair because guess what. He has infinite repairs. Limited ammo vs unlimited hp do not work. But what do I know.  Somehow I don't get any arguments in favor of repairs because admin prefers to argue with people that talk about player-base... 

Agreed. Limited ammo (all ammos) vs. limited repairs would work.

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Just now, Lars Kjaer said:

Agreed. Limited ammo (all ammos) vs. limited repairs would work.

Limiting balls would be bad for so many reasons. Ships had more than enough balls for battles to be fair. 

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@admin Is it the desired effect that it will leave just one tactic to win battles? The game becomes nothing about skills but all about upgrades. Is this intended?

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Just now, Lars Kjaer said:

@admin Is it the desired effect that it will leave just one tactic to win battles? The game becomes nothing about skills but all about upgrades. Is this intended?

spamming chain didnt have much to do with tactics either

now you need to be careful when to use what :)

cant we just test it first?

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15 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

LOL it's not tactical. It changes nothing except that after you use your chain the enemy ship can repair because guess what. He has infinite repairs. Limited ammo vs unlimited hp do not work. But what do I know.  

When replying to Christendom i think - i mentioned that of course limitations of chain will come with changes in their damage and tuning of repairs
The main goal is simple
Remove mindless chaining from any distance
Force the player to think when to shoot and at what angle. 

Look at the difference

  • Hull damage has some tactical depth
  • Raking and grape has a lot of tactical depth
  • Chain DOES NOT not have ANY tactical depth.
    •  It is just ololol clicker heroes currently. CS FN P90 has more tactical depth than chain in Naval Action.


 

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2 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Limiting balls would be bad for so many reasons. Ships had more than enough balls for battles to be fair. 

How much more does a chain ball weigh compared to a ball shot? and I've seen rattlesnakes (before they removed that beauty from crafting) kill a first rate by basically firing an unlimited amount of balls into the ass of a first rate.

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5 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Agreed. Limited ammo (all ammos) vs. limited repairs would work.

I dont understand why people want limited ball at all. Even if you play amazing you will die against a bigger number of players because you have no ammo left. How is this skillbased? It just promotes ganking even more...

2 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

@admin Is it the desired effect that it will leave just one tactic to win battles? The game becomes nothing about skills but all about upgrades. Is this intended?

And what tactic is this? Just because there is a limit on chain (which we dont even know yet) doesnt mean angling and positioning are irrelevant.

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7 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

@admin Is it the desired effect that it will leave just one tactic to win battles? The game becomes nothing about skills but all about upgrades. Is this intended?

What are you talking about? So shooting chains forever was skilled?

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2 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

I dont understand why people want limited ball at all. Even if you play amazing you will die against a bigger number of players because you have no ammo left. How is this skillbased? It just promotes ganking even more...

And what tactic is this? Just because there is a limit on chain (which we dont even know yet) doesnt mean angling and positioning are irrelevant.

Where's the skill in having a ship that can't be demasted (due to upgrades) and fighting a shitty noob that can easily be demasted due to no upgrades? And with the limited access to the best woods then it becomes even less skill based. The entire argument based in skill is a false premise when the ships are so heavily unbalanced if favour of a limited few as they are.. I know that I've won my share of fights - not because I'm some magically gifted prodigy in naval action but simply because: I had the better ship, I had the better upgrades, I had the better ship knowledges..

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It will only promote speed meta and ia/mission gank.

most appreciated thing amongst Russian players. No surprise in the end.

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Just now, admin said:

Chain did not have ANY tactical depth. It is just ololol clicker heroes before. CS FN P90 has more tactical depth than chain in Naval Action.

You cannot seriously mean that? Chaining is attacking an enemies ability to out maneuver you and to take his wind. Chaining ensures you have the sail advantage to get yourself into an tactical position to strike. Now with unlimited repairs and rum a stern rake does nothing. The wind means nothing with all the wind shifting. Positioning has less meaning because of wind shifting. You cannot make these changes to combat system and say its more hardcore. Naval action used to be hardcore. It isn't hardcore anymore. 

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2 hours ago, admin said:

Captains

Amount of chain shot carried by a ship will be limited next patch (so called tutorial patch)
No perk will be required for use of chain (at least for now).

Reasons

  • Historically ships carried A LOT less chain and grape compared to normal cannon balls. 
  • Gameplay wise we want to bring more skill into chaining and limitation of chain will force players to conserve it, pick proper angles to destroy more sail and in general think about its use instead of current chainshot clicker heroes
  • This also means that outnumbered players will have easier time fighting against bigger groups who rely on active chaining as the ONLY tactic. 

Please start thinking about new tactics and of course.... discuss. 

if we limit it due to historical reasons, we must also make it do the same thing historically. such as messing up rigging, taking much longer to fix and repair, snapping spars, etc. 

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16 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Limiting balls would be bad for so many reasons. Ships had more than enough balls for battles to be fair. 

Half of the server can play better if they could borrow the balls from you

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37 minutes ago, admin said:

Nope
On average it was 5-10 chains and 100 cannon balls
 

Do you think 250 chain / 1000 grape/ 2500 ball would be a good start before resupply needed? We can't have 10 chain shot. 

Edited by Project Pluto

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2 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

 Now with unlimited repairs and rum a stern rake does nothing. The wind means nothing with all the wind shifting. Positioning has less meaning because of wind shifting.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I almost never agree with this ragdoll. But I am now. think about that. 

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3 minutes ago, RKY said:

It will only promote speed meta

Don't call speed a meta. Speed is not called a meta in racing games either. Speed/energy is arguably the most important thing in naval warfare. 

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The idea in itself is good. Implementation though...

you would think one would limit sail repairs first and let people have unlimited chain to see if gameplay changes.

instead let's limit chain so when everyone screams to nerf sail repairs the testing will be ineffective because no chains LoL.

 

LOGIC...:)

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19 minutes ago, admin said:

When replying to Christendom i think - i mentioned that of course limitations of chain will come with changes in their damage and tuning of repairs
The main goal is simple
Remove mindless chaining from any distance
Force the player to think when to shoot and at what angle. 

Look at the difference

  • Hull damage has some tactical depth
  • Raking and grape has a lot of tactical depth
  • Chain DOES NOT not have ANY tactical depth.
    •  It is just ololol clicker heroes currently. CS FN P90 has more tactical depth than chain in Naval Action.


 

Then remove Chain and add it as a Trained skill with timer. 

-Enable / Shoot as much as you like/ wait for reset timer to use it again. 

Limiting one ammo type is not wise. 

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9 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

You cannot seriously mean that? Chaining is attacking an enemies ability to out maneuver you and to take his wind. Chaining ensures you have the sail advantage to get yourself into an tactical position to strike. Now with unlimited repairs and rum a stern rake does nothing. The wind means nothing with all the wind shifting. Positioning has less meaning because of wind shifting. You cannot make these changes to combat system and say its more hardcore. Naval action used to be hardcore. It isn't hardcore anymore. 

Wind changes happened. Due to in game time scale they happen a bit less than once a day (which is normal).
Wind change makes speed less relevant - as we want you to not run but fight. If you don't plan to run - wind change brings variety.
Constitution ran away because of the wind change

For chain there is no tactical depth becuase you just click fire by KD. Tactical depth in shooting


Limited chain is a win win feature. There are no losers
If you plan to fight and you fit for strong rig it will be harder to chain you non stop
If you plan to run, if you really really want to run limited chain will actually make running easier.

 

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1 minute ago, admin said:

Wind changes happened.

Due to in game time scale they happen once a day (which is normal).
Wind change makes speed less relevant - as we want you to not run but fight. If you don't plan to run - wind change brings variety.
But limited chain will actually make running easier.

And making running easier is good why?

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4 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Don't call speed a meta. Speed is not called a meta in racing games either. Speed/energy is arguably the most important thing in naval warfare. 

Just watch reverse's wasa: Bermuda/fir

elite Spanish rig refit

navy hull

Copper plate

 

treatise on square sail

art of ship

optimized ballast

study sail

Combat carpenter

 

That is no naval warfare, that is an abomination.

 

 

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1 minute ago, RKY said:

Just watch reverse's wasa: Bermuda/fir

elite Spanish rig refit

navy hull

Copper plate

 

treatise on square sail

art of ship

optimized ballast

study sail

Combat carpenter

 

That is no naval warfare, that is an abomination.

 

 

Do he still carry 4pds? :)

 

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